AIL "Alpine Injured List"

[daveo]

That's correct. 2 complete tears and 2 reco. 

I would assume strength and mobility loss would occur in both my and Corey's case. My experience was strength is the easy one to regain, mobility is not. So my suggestion was that while he is healing, even if he cannot do strength work for the time being, don't worry about it, that comes back quickly, but keep mobility work up as that's harder to regain later, plus it's less stress on the joint, plus he won't be able to squat properly without knee joint mobility anyway. And only fools half squat.

[Corey]

1 hour ago, daveo said:

plus he won't be able to squat properly without knee joint mobility anyway.

No issues with mobility, squat depth, or squat strength.  But I can't push a 10-lb plate on the floor with the side of my foot.  

[Buell]

In my experience with damaged knees and surgeries, I had to work to get mobility back, but once it was back, it stayed. I always favor my bad knee so that leg is smaller than my good knee. The closest it gets is when I am doing a lot of split squats. Oddly, there is not a significant difference between the strength in each leg during split squats.

My doc says I currently have no effective ACL. He doesn't recommend surgery because he says my osteoarthritis makes another reconstruction unpredictable. That's fine with me because I do not need a fourth knee surgery at the moment.

For me, squats are fine, squat depth is fine, mobility is fine. Knee is a bit unstable in some situations and can ache at times. My knee is definitely more stable when I am doing more squats with at least medium weight.

I now wear a metal hinged neoprene brace when snowboarding. I tried the expensive custom braces and it did not seem to be any better, just more bulky.

 

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Corey,  so sorry to hear about the injury,   you are strong and smart,  use your own judgement to guide you through the recovery.   Think long term.  I wish you well!! 

 

[softbootsurfer]

Corey, this sounds similar to an Injury I had maybe 7 or 8 years ago...a Stretched MCL, certain movements were weak and slightly painful...dr. Pevny here in Aspen suggested 10 to 12 days off the Snow and then a brace after that...finished up the season and then left the brace behind, the  knee has been fine since then...good luck !!

 

[1xsculler]

MRI diagnosis?  Lateral and posterior-anterior stability evaluated by an experienced sports medicine PT?

Don’t even think about letting anybody cut on you with out at least sending all of the findings (MRI, etc.) to Dr Dan Nelson at ProOrtho in Kirkland, WA, for his evaluation. He is a well respected stem cell therapist, MD, in a large group of well respected Orthopedic Surgeons. He’s very conservative and he is of the highest integrity. If he can’t help you he will tell you and will send you in the right direction. 

[Neil Gendzwill]

4 hours ago, 1xsculler said:

Don’t even think about letting anybody cut on you with out at least sending all of the findings (MRI, etc.) to Dr Dan Nelson at ProOrtho in Kirkland, WA, for his evaluation.

Corey is Canadian.  Plus, it doesn't sound like he needs surgery.

[SunSurfer]

5 hours ago, 1xsculler said:

He is a well respected stem cell therapist, MD,......... He’s very conservative and he is of the highest integrity. 

@1xsculler These two parts of your post are contradictory. Stem cell therapy is not widely accepted outside of bone marrow transplants after chemo. Indeed, for many doctors in first world countries outside the USA, "stem cell therapists" are peddling snake oil and relieving the public of their hard earned cash for unproven and ineffective "treatments". Caveat emptor!

[Corey]

Now that my knee (and brain?) has calmed down, it's not looking nearly as bad.  The insertion point for the adductor on the inside of my knee/side of tibia is the point giving me trouble.  Slight risk of a tiny bone chip in the area, but Doc gave me some exercises to trigger growth/rebuilding in the area.  I should be good to ride in 2-4 weeks, up to me to feel it out.  I came out with a 'light-duty' hinged brace.  

Interestingly, all of my strength training is bilateral.  i.e. squats with 2 legs, deadlift with 2 legs, other variations with 2 legs.  The discussion led to the rather asymmetrical nature of hardbooting, and how bilateral movements may not prepare the adductors or the abductors and other various muscles that aid in lateral stability.  My relatively strong quads, hamstrings, glutes, etc. let me attack much harder early in the season than the adductor could handle.  As someone who's just now learning about the human body's adaptive responses to stress, it was a fascinating and open discussion. 

Prevention for next year: Add unilateral motions.  Single-leg deadlifts and squats to start.  

[lowrider]

25 minutes ago, Corey said:

  As someone who's just now learning about the human body's adaptive responses to stress (ageing ), it was a fascinating and open discussion. 

Prevention for next year: Add unilateral motions.  Single-leg deadlifts and squats to start.  

Still in denial Eh!

[Corey]

21 minutes ago, lowrider said:

Still in denial Eh!

You're only as old as you feel. 

OK, one of my knees feels pretty old right now.   

[1xsculler]

1 hour ago, SunSurfer said:

@1xsculler These two parts of your post are contradictory. Stem cell therapy is not widely accepted outside of bone marrow transplants after chemo. Indeed, for many doctors in first world countries outside the USA, "stem cell therapists" are peddling snake oil and relieving the public of their hard earned cash for unproven and ineffective "treatments". Caveat emptor!

I agree it doesn’t sound like surgery BUT I stand by my post and stated it the way I did because I am aware of the charlitons trying to dip into you wallet. Again, IF the knife was suggested I would talk with Dan. If an MRI confirmed a partial tear I would talk to Dan. Maybe stem cell therapy and/or platelet rich plasma could bolster repair of tissues that frequently don’t repair well without help, i.e. ligaments and tendons. 

Canada/USA, who cares when it’s your body at stake?

[slopestar]

I’m a year from being a half century old. I’ve seen a few miles and taken more than my fair share of thrills and spills. My most recent ailment seems to be the coccyx. No pain back there but I know that it’s supposed to be fused but I tend to be able to pop/crack it at times lately. No recent hard spills and I’m feeling like I’m charging harder than ever before... 

curious... guess I should go in for a check up...? Gasp!

[patmoore]

On the last day of individual competition at the NASTAR Nationals at Squaw Valley, I told the starter that the last gate on the yellow course was too far left and directed skiers into the timing photocells.  Several other skiers complained about it and they did move it the width of one gate.   Still not enough.  I was in 4th position going into the last run and needed to really smoke a run.  I got late at the last gate and did what I feared.  Two more racers did the exact same thing  after me.   I wound up with a sled ride and two broken ribs.  It also knocked me out of the Snowboard Race of Champions the next day.  That was a major disappointment as I had recorded the third fastest raw time in that event.  

 

2000+ plus skydives and I never broke a bone.  Then I got into ski racing.   I've lost count of the fractures....

 

[davekempmeister]

heal well, Pat.  broken ribs are no joke.  a hydrant at Copper claimed 5 of mine, about 5 years ago.  

wishing you the best. everything hurt.

[nitro]

 Here is a few pics of the disaster that ended my season. fair warning to those riding isolation plates, torque  can reverse from the snow to the body if the board locks up! 200lb +riders bware upm&allflex inserts will bite you in the ass! 

[barryj]

39 minutes ago, nitro said:

torque  can reverse from the snow to the body if the board locks up!

Ouch!   Nitro so sorry to see and hear the news....

Can you explain what and how it happened........ and how UPM/Allflex Plates impacted your  the outcome??

[big mario]

I'll take a quick shot at a forensic analysis:

overpowered board, stuffed nose, snapped board, board stopped,  body kept on going, boots didn't, leg broke. Sorry to see and hear this Nitro, that sucks!!

Mario

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Sorry to say, been there done that.   Now suffering the effects years later of the 15" nail .    Hope you heal well. 

How old are you? 

My suggestions:

Take the meds ! Don't be the "tough guy" 

Follow the regime to prevent digestion issues associated with the meds. 

Have the nail and hardware removed at some point , before you suffer issues associated with the fixtures. 

Best of luck!! Ride on!! Bryan 

 

[barryj]

On 5/11/2019 at 6:48 PM, nitro said:

200lb +riders bware upm&allflex inserts will bite you in the ass! 

Is he saying the UPM/Allflex "inserts"  made the board weaker and he loaded the nose and it snapped??

From the photo the Plate seems intact and the break is above where the Plate is attached.

From his bio page the only board he has a Plate on is his Donek 185 Rev with an AF Plate......so that probably was the board.  Must of been Hauling to load up that 185 - Ouch!!

[nitro]

On 5/11/2019 at 4:33 PM, barryj said:

 

Can you explain what and how it happened........ and how UPM/Allflex Plates impacted your  the outcome??

How it all went down is sort of hard to explain because it all happened in a micro second & every thing I can describe about the wreck is the best I can recall. I can  also give everyone some of the facts  from the broken bits from the crash.

 From what I can tell after  looking at all  the broken parts  is this;  the over hang of the  t-d3 binder on the iso plate may have played a part in this failure .

The front foot pinched the board at some point, there is a witness mark on the top sheet. Its hard to say if this was part of the failure or happened after the break. 
I need to mention I waxed /tuned edges & rode this board hard a couple days before the failure & I had no problems with edge hold at all also I had no issues with the board that day .

6 hours ago, barryj said:

Is he saying the UPM/Allflex "inserts"  made the board weaker and he loaded the nose and it snapped??

 After looking at all the broken parts I also found evidence that the heel side edge/sidewall could have played a part in this failure as well, I  can see where the wax penetrated the edge & sidewall via a hair line fracture. This fracture was in line with the upm inserts torsionally on the toe side of the board break.

This donek 185 rev was  a warranty replacement, as my original 185 rev also snapped at the upm mount on the tail inserts. This happened on my 15th day of the season a few years back. The new replacement board snapped at 40  days and had close to a million vertical feet of hard carving. THIS IS THE SECOND TIME A DONEK  REV 185 HAS BROKEN UNDER MY FEET AT THE UPM INSERT CROSS SECTION.

all I know is that in less than one minute before the board failed it was acting  flaky on my first & unfortunately final run that day. I  was pushing 50mph & the board was washing out, the trees were close & I really needed the  board to respond , I leaned on it hard in a toe side turn to avoid the trees at the edge of the run , it hooked up hard sending me into a cart wheel with my posture at 30 to 40 degrees to the ground. The first flip I missed my head & landed on the boards nose it snapped & so did my leg, the second flip I landed flat on my back & thankfully spun to a stop.

On 5/11/2019 at 7:08 PM, big mario said:

'll take a quick shot at a forensic analysis:

overpowered board, stuffed nose, snapped board, board stopped,  body kept on going, boots didn't, leg broke. Sorry to see and hear this Nitro, that sucks!!

Mario

It all happened kind of like big mario stated , although I have to add ,& it's my opinion that if I wasn't on an iso plate the board would have yielded better, bending more in the space between my feet allowing forgiveness at the boot instead of breaking the bone.  I say this because this is not my first broken board in a stuffed nose carve. 28 years of riding, and most of them on alpine boards. And, always on hard-boots...

I hope this answers all questions about my experience with iso plates & insert placement by design.Had I found the hairline fracture when I  the tuned up the board, I would have discarded the board.tears...

Edited May 13, 2019 by nitro

[nitro]

12 hours ago, www.oldsnowboards.com said:

Sorry to say, been there done that.   Now suffering the effects years later of the 15" nail .    Hope you heal well. 

How old are you? 

 My suggestions:

Take the meds ! Don't be the "tough guy" 

Follow the regime to prevent digestion issues associated with the meds. 

Have the nail and hardware removed at some point , before you suffer issues associated with the fixtures. 

Best of luck!! Ride on!! Bryan 

 

Thanks Bryan,

Im 48, I have made it past the pain so far &the nail is a bitch, Im in pt now & I dont know if I will ride ever again but I hope that maybe some day I will feel well enough to ride again.Right now the screws /plate are the most painful part . I hope to have them removed at some point but I dont know if the nail will ever come out, I dont even want to know how they got it in there let alone how they will get it out!

have you overcome the alterations to your leg? are you still able to carve after the trauma?

Nitro

Edited May 13, 2019 by nitro

[lowrider]

Hope your open to a little levity with regard to your recent situation. ( Board had a plate on it which may have contributed to board failure. Your leg now has a plate on it to prevent a failure ? ) Once had a front binding release traveling at a good clip resulting in a good spill. Outcome was not catastrophic but i did become almost sick to my stomach and still have moments of panic when i recall the incident . Heal well do your physio and drink your milk !  

[daveo]

3 hours ago, lowrider said:

Once had a front binding release traveling at a good clip resulting in a good spill. Outcome was not catastrophic but i did become almost sick to my stomach and still have moments of panic when i recall the incident .

I shudder at the thought also! I had my rear foot release this season due to snow build up in the heel receiving groove of the boot which I was unaware of, so the heel bail didn't engage properly. From then on I had my idiot strap out and used it to clear the receiving groove out of any snow / ice.

Lucky it released on perfect snow while mid heelside carve, otherwise the result could (would) have been catastrophic.

[barryj]

16 hours ago, nitro said:

THIS IS THE SECOND TIME A DONEK  REV 185 HAS BROKEN UNDER MY FEET AT THE UPM INSERT CROSS SECTION.

Wow!  That just freaks me out!   I'm no Engineer but surely the length of the board with and where the Plate was attached and the effect as a fulcrum (the Perfect Storm!) at 50mph contributed to.... Design Failure???