Jump to content
trailertrash

Ancient Equipment in Alpine Snowboarding...

Recommended Posts

Ancient equipment, Where? Who? What? I don't know anyone who rides ancient equipment and at Montucky, everything was state of the art? why would you even bother with this ?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

No. Everyone has their own balance of fun to dollars. Lift served snow sports already have a big financial commitment for many people-  if they are having fun on old equipment, awesome. New boards, boots and bindings are continuing to sell, and the top end seems to keep going up. 

Access to coaching and development at recreational and junior levels are probably more deserving of championing.

 

  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

There's a balance - if everyone bought new gear just to get this season's graphics, manufacturers would have no incentive to make meaningful improvements. Knowing that they need to come out with something that is a genuine step forward, or people will keep riding their 1998 Oxygen Protons, is probably a positive influence that keeps manufacturers focused on improvement. 

Edited by Dan
  • Like 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

my santa cruz hard boot bindings are probably old enough to buy a beer 🤣. I dont think im either good enough or ride hardboots often enough to have newer bindings improve my performance to be honest

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Couldn't the same question be asked of any sport?  

My bike from 20 years ago (woah, didn't realize it was that old until now) still gets me around the trails.  Do I wish I had a new one and all the new features that come with it?  Yes!  Am I willing to spend the money?  Not at this time.  

That said, there definitely was a step-change in alpine board performance about 10 years ago with the introduction of metal and decambered noses/tails. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Equipment manufacturers are always trying to convince people with last years' equipment that their latest stuff is LIFE CHANGING! MUST HAVE! Sometimes it is. Often it's just hype. 

New graphics and a new name for the "special" stuff in their new equipment. 

This is done in almost every market - snowsports, bikes, cars, electronics, etc., etc. 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
41 minutes ago, Dan said:

There's a balance - if everyone bought new gear just to get this season's graphics, manufacturers would have no incentive to make meaningful improvements. Knowing that they need to come out with something that is a genuine step forward, or people will keep riding their 1998 Oxygen Protons is probably a positive influence that keeps manufacturers focused on improvement. 

Oxygen protons... I have one and it is a blast to ride for half a day... afterwards, my Donek runs so much easier as well as cleaner....

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
20 minutes ago, TVR said:

Oxygen protons... I have one and it is a blast to ride for half a day... afterwards, my Donek runs so much easier as well as cleaner....

Haha, I dropped that name for a reason 🙂 I love mine, though I admit I haven't ridden it since I got into modern shapes and construction. I always have good intentions of taking it out for a spin though -- interested to see how much I'll notice the difference. 

Edited by Dan

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

The road to Hell is  paved with good intentions. 14 pairs of skis and 13 boards is testament to my commitment to some day make the effort to ride them , however reality bites hard some days as i learned when i took my old 215 Kneisel  Super Stars with Marker Rotomat bindings. They only seemed to want to go straight and fast. They would certainly have benifited from some decamber ! Old equipment is fine for hacking around and rock days but once you realize you can turn and stop it's time to move on.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I was the supervisor of the local snowboard school a bunch of years ago and many of my instructors wanted to try carving on hardboots after seeing me on the hill. Cool.

But coming up with gear for them to try it on really held them back. I had a board or two to lend but I'm a big, tall and strong guy and my boards reflect that and the small and light rider would never be able to ride them on the first day out..

But there was a "carving board" that someone left in the school locker room and a few times a year people would take it out. It was a short (159ish?) and wicked soft and would fold up like an accordion if you pushed on it at all. Riders would take it out and come back and say that "carving boards suck" and never try it again. I'll bet a good number of those instructors would have loved it if they could have jumped on modern and appropriate gear....but the one antiquated board they tried sucked so bad that they never tried it again. I get it.

dave

  • Like 3

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I think people who could justify buying a modern board that would improve their riding or be more enjoyable but choose not to for nostalgic or cheapskate* reasons are fooling themselves, and holding the sport back.  If one truly cannot justify the expense, or if the old board is fully enjoyable, then that's fair.  However when they do decide to get something new or to exit the sport, if they try to unload obviously worthless gear on an unsuspecting newbie, that is also holding the sport back. 

18 hours ago, David Kirk said:

But there was a "carving board" that someone left in the school locker room and a few times a year people would take it out. It was a short (159ish?) and wicked soft and would fold up like an accordion if you pushed on it at all. Riders would take it out and come back and say that "carving boards suck" and never try it again. I'll bet a good number of those instructors would have loved it if they could have jumped on modern and appropriate gear....but the one antiquated board they tried sucked so bad that they never tried it again. I get it.

I think this is a compelling example of why beginners should not buy $100 Burton Alps or anything like that.

*I would say if you are passionate about an activity and can afford and justify new gear that would be more enjoyable but choose not to, that's being a cheapskate.  Like a lawyer I know who will shop for skis at the junkyard.  I enjoy playing guitar, but I would stop short of calling it a passion, and I'm not in a band, so I have a Mexican-made Fender Stratocaster instead of an American-made one for 3x the price.  I don't think that's being a cheapskate. 

20 hours ago, Corey said:

That said, there definitely was a step-change in alpine board performance about 10 years ago with the introduction of metal and decambered noses/tails.

I believe the first accessible/affordable production boards like that were the Prior WCRM in 2006.  Kessler won the 2002 Olympics with the new tech.

  • Like 1
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm probably the WRONG person to weigh in as I just picked up some step-in TD2's with 3D disks for the sole purpose of riding my 25yo UltraPrimes more.  I can't explain it, but there is a real substantive reward, in ideal conditions of course, in beating the UP into submission just to hook into and even linking a half-dozen good turns in a single run.  It's as close as I'm gonna feel to being Mike Tyson having a pet lion. 

But it doesn't have to be that way.  The revolution is real.  My first custom, a Flux Sean built for me at a svelte 200lbs with a 22cm waist to hardboot in just about every shitty condition the northeast could throw at me, was an eyeopener. It also put my focus on what could be better, upon which he improved the following year with a second Flux that was even better.  It's still my go-to board when I don't know what to expect on the mountain.  I can only relate it to golf clubs and how hybrids changed the game for me where a 5 iron is now the lowest iron in my bag and I now carry 2, 3 and 4 hybrids which are a hell of a lot easier to manage and offer a range of flexibility above their bladed counterparts.

Even my son, who has only been in hardboots for 3 or 4 years now, not to mention already a far superior rider than I'll ever dream to be, notices the subtle improvement in my new boards from year to year.  That's why he's not allowed to touch my Thirsts... 👍 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
18 hours ago, JohnE said:

Equipment manufacturers are always trying to convince people with last years' equipment that their latest stuff is LIFE CHANGING! MUST HAVE! Sometimes it is. Often it's just hype. 

New graphics and a new name for the "special" stuff in their new equipment. 

This is done in almost every market - snowsports, bikes, cars, electronics, etc., etc. 

 

Can you give an example in the hard boot free carving world for this "hype"?

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

perfect use-age of meme template; I see you are man of culture as well lol...

the boots itself definitely fall into the new color category hype.  It's finally getting "better"
This episode of Simpsons comes to mind:

people who ride alpine seems to do more intro inspection and don't blinding follow the crowd as there isn't much of a crowd to follow...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
2 hours ago, Jack M said:

I think people who could justify buying a modern board that would improve their riding or be more enjoyable but choose not to for nostalgic or cheapskate* reasons are fooling themselves, and holding the sport back.

Really Jack...they are holding the sport back from what? The manufacturers of equipment, be they mainstream, or  Kestler, SG, Coiler, Prior, Donek, Winterstick,Thirst, even Burton, could care less about the individual you use as an example, Right?, ...innovations never come from people who don't give a sh.t in the first place about their equipment, or how it can help[ them achieve advancements in what they are trying to do on the slope... Right? Innovation comes from people who care about equipment and how it can be furthered to do what they want, so a thread about people who don't care as somehow responsible for holding Alpine back seems rather absurd IMHO...Let's maybe Focus on the current, latest Innovations and why they are ourtstanding reasons, to try new equipment...

 

  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

I'll give this one shot and see what you think. Plates (isolation) on old boards allow the board to perform in ways the board cannot on it's own. Metal boards as well as decambered boards work much better than their predecessors but  without  trying a plate on an old board it would be harder to asses whether the board was at it's limit as far as it's performance. You don't notice how drastic the difference is until you try something better. A plate on a newer board is not as drastic a difference as a plate on an older board. As a debating point i would say that it's hard to do better until you know exactly what it is that you are doing. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
1 hour ago, softbootsurfer said:

Really Jack...they are holding the sport back from what?

At best they are denying a sale to a current manufacturer. They may also be influencing others with the misconception that new boards are not significantly better than old boards, and other misinformation. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

howdy

on the o.p. ... another stupid question... I have seen people rip a thing of beauty on ancient gear

and people suck eggs on high end gear... what holds the sport back is the cost of new gear...

never ever blame ancient gear... it is you that hold the sport back...

  • Like 3
  • Thanks 1

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Uh......OP you talking about us Greybeard riders or the equipment???

Right now I'm injured and ancient! 

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

It also depends on what the old equipment is...

A set of TD2s are tough as you can get and will never brake... they are a bit heavier, but won't affect a newbie, but will keep him safe... 

Older boards, not so much...

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

This debate about old gear is getting really old. No one can honestly tell or convince me that a board from the 90's is a great board that can hang with new tech.  Here is a great example of a severely overpriced ancient board. This is very misleading for newbies looking to pick up some used gear and having no idea that this board is over 20 years.

Quote

**Burton Prime 160cm - World Cup build with WC base prep and HF wax only. Low miles. Bindings are optional.
Asking 350.00 obo with Bindings 

I organized the 2008 ECES at Stowe and we hosted a "retro" day and bought out all our old gear from 20-30+ years ago. I have been riding HB's for over 30 years and I took one run on my Burton M6 and could not wait to get off it. Equipment has come a long way. Compare the above mentioned Burton Prime to a 1st gen Metal Prior from 2006 and any rider will see a significant difference and improvement. I almost would love to introduce a rule that if the board is over 10 years old and being sold in the classified section that we move it to a classified section called "Collectors". Any newbies that are looking at gear should know that the board has new tech or is ancient.

Do I have old boards that are 20-30 years old? Yes! Do I ever plan on riding? Hell no! They are collector items that are wall hangers in my garage.

 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Strangely, those rare hardbooters I see at my local hill are usually on really old stuff - stuff over which an Oxygen Proton would be a significant improvement. They usually do suck, too. I keep wondering why they bother, as it is hard for my to imagine they have actual fun, doing what they do.

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites
10 hours ago, GeoffV said:

I almost would love to introduce a rule that if the board is over 10 years old and being sold in the classified section that we move it to a classified section called "Collectors". Any newbies that are looking at gear should know that the board has new tech or is ancient.

That's a really good idea! Maybe that line is drawn at the 06 Prior that Jack described above. 

  • Like 2

Share this post


Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Restore formatting

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.




  • Recently Browsing

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...