So who's at fault?

[inkaholic]

We, the LCI, do as much as possible to eliminate collisions/close calls. We wait for windows, first person dropping stops at intersections to hand signal if it is clear to continue and we all have our heads on a swivel.

I was the downhill rider in my case and got blasted by a woman’s knee in my shoulder blade while making a heelside turn. I looked, our spotter looked and she entered my run in a merging lane from the next run over. 
Patrol called it “incidental contact”, even though I was the downhill rider, and didn’t think it would go anywhere beyond that. 
Several months later I was being sued for the damages to the woman’s knee and loss of income among other things. 

ink

Look around you as much as you can to protect yourself. Sometimes stuff happens so quickly there is nothing you can do about it.

[SunSurfer]

Like @Jack M look where your carve will end, but now I'm always looking for open space to carve into, away from the traffic around me.

[Corey]

6 hours ago, inkaholic said:

Several months later I was being sued for the damages to the woman’s knee and loss of income among other things. 

That's disgusting. I hope it turned out ok? 

[dhamann]

17 hours ago, daveo said:

like a psycho maniac, it's just irresponsible, risk seeking behaviour

... and?

funny story... midweek at loonyville a few weeks ago i was carving casually until i saw a couple college boarders starting to b-line with speed checks. i was about 50-70yds ahead of them and decided to let them know to give me my space cause i tend to use a lot of the trail. did a couple quick wall to wall turns hoping they'd fall into one of the ruts, then pointed it around an s-turn in the trail (flying fox). started to skip out on toeside going at a pretty good pace. had to pull out the 'ol knapton elbow save. lost some speed but not too much. these fkn kids were trying to catch up to me and were right on my tail. i saved the slight skid turn and pointed again. same concept, couple of controlled wall to walls and pointed into one of the widest parts on the mountain (basin st exit to crosscut junction) to put down a long high speed heely. entering my toeside turn to save myself from the wooods, sure as sh.t, one of these fkrs skids behind me while i keep going. they didn't learn the first time, but they learned the second. all those practice b-line speed checks came in handy that time. saw him at the lift about a minute after i got there and gave me props for the riding. i wanted to tell him to 'space it out'  a bit next time, but i think he understood. close one, but lesson learned. give carvers their room when the mountain is empty and don't follow us. somebody can get hurt. carvers, use your noggin.

 

knowing surroundings is key for carving safely and effectively. not many know or care about "the code" but common sense should be considered for the more skilled slider. otherwise, somebody is going to school. this tiktock clip demonstrates trail traffic that is not conducive to carving. more of a survival side slip situation and again, know your surroundings. save it for the next run.

 

carvers turn across the run, not down. head on a swivel.

Edited March 17, 2021 by dhamann

[daveo]

23 minutes ago, dhamann said:

... and?

... And the rest of what I wrote. 

Edited March 17, 2021 by daveo

[Corey]

I had a ski patroller complain to me once that I "sprayed the sh** out of her" on a run. I suggested that she should leave more room when following someone. It was a light-hearted banter, but that line was a surprise coming from a ski patroller. 

 

[barryj]

17 hours ago, inkaholic said:

Several months later I was being sued for the damages

What!  Sooo sorry to hear that!   That's a sad state of affairs we live in to get sued by someone who's created the accident!

[barryj]

I used to really like proximity riding.....you know, riding edge to edge and getting as close to the edge without landing in the woods,  but I had 5 or 6  close calls last season on the edge of trails as skiers think they can sneek/squeeze by me as I'm swinging back the other direction.

With trying to protect my repaired Rotator cuff surgery my carving plan this season was to divide every trail into a 4 lane highway and stay out of the outside lanes!!  Getting the Thirst SF162 was part  of that plan and being that it's a Turny Little Bastard it's No Trouble  making more turns in less space!    And!  I've had ZERO (knock on wood!) incidents or accidents this season ...........but have seen more than one straight liner zip past me in that outside lane!!

Edited March 18, 2021 by barryj

[rjnakata]

On 3/16/2021 at 2:24 PM, queequeg said:

... The better question in these kind of events is: how could we have avoided this?

I'll write this here from another post:

"I have taken to the "buddy system."  I use small cheap walkie talkies (Motorola T100) with a button-press beep function (they all have this). I head down a run and my buddy beeps me if a straightliner is coming so I can pull over.  I do the same looking up the run for him.  

I still look up the hill, but the beep has already alerted me to some hill bombers already.    It seems to help."  

I was beeped a couple of times last time I was out. I hadn't see them without it.  Oh and for the tik tok, max speed carving in a crowd can have consequences!

[Aracan]

Makes me appreciate my local hill even more. One 11-km-run. One 30-person gondola that takes about 15 minutes up (usually 60 persons, but in these here times …).

Means I would have to be VERY stupid to get hit.

[st_lupo]

22 hours ago, dhamann said:

... and?

funny story... midweek at loonyville a few weeks ago i was carving casually until i saw a couple college boarders starting to b-line with speed checks. i was about 50-70yds ahead of them and decided to let them know to give me my space cause i tend to use a lot of the trail. did a couple quick wall to wall turns hoping they'd fall into one of the ruts, then pointed it around an s-turn in the trail (flying fox). started to skip out on toeside going at a pretty good pace. had to pull out the 'ol knapton elbow save. lost some speed but not too much. these fkn kids were trying to catch up to me and were right on my tail. i saved the slight skid turn and pointed again. same concept, couple of controlled wall to walls and pointed into one of the widest parts on the mountain (basin st exit to crosscut junction) to put down a long high speed heely. entering my toeside turn to save myself from the wooods, sure as sh.t, one of these fkrs skids behind me while i keep going. they didn't learn the first time, but they learned the second. all those practice b-line speed checks came in handy that time. saw him at the lift about a minute after i got there and gave me props for the riding. i wanted to tell him to 'space it out'  a bit next time, but i think he understood. close one, but lesson learned. give carvers their room when the mountain is empty and don't follow us. somebody can get hurt. carvers, use your noggin.

 

knowing surroundings is key for carving safely and effectively. not many know or care about "the code" but common sense should be considered for the more skilled slider. otherwise, somebody is going to school. this tiktock clip demonstrates trail traffic that is not conducive to carving. more of a survival side slip situation and again, know your surroundings. save it for the next run.

 

carvers turn across the run, not down. head on a swivel.

This kinda strikes me as playing with fire.  Call me chicken, but I always figure that anybody behind me is a liability and an idiot, and unless I'm certain that they aren't keeping up with me, I'll just let people pass.  I'd rather be in one piece than right.

[JohnE]

When you are at the point of deciding who's fault it is, it just becomes another source of income for lawyers.

Another tale that reinforces why I don't ride on weekends any more. 

[dhamann]

 

3 hours ago, st_lupo said:

This kinda strikes me as playing with fire.  Call me chicken, but I always figure that anybody behind me is a liability and an idiot, and unless I'm certain that they aren't keeping up with me, I'll just let people pass.  I'd rather be in one piece than right.

absolutely. fire on the mountain! i do let people pass most of the time, but not in this instance. thankfully came out of it alive. "but did you die". i was a gamblin man on this one for sure. my 'new to me' oxess is the best board i've ever ridden (alpine). so fun! stranger danger.

[Chouinard]

9 hours ago, Aracan said:

One 11-km-run.

How many laps can you get in a days worth of riding?

[queequeg]

6 hours ago, JohnE said:

Another tale that reinforces why I don't ride on weekends any more. 

Me too: done with weekends. I don’t ride nearly as much as I used to but I enjoy it WAY more. I just take a few week-long trips a year now. I’ll ride weekends for pow/trees and to hang with friends but no trying to charge hard on the weekends — I just don’t enjoy it.

[Aracan]

15 hours ago, Chouinard said:

How many laps can you get in a days worth of riding?

I don't usually do days, because, truth be told, my endurance doesn't support it. At least not if I am actually carving. I know skiers in their 80s who will do double digits on that hill, and my wife tells me she used to do the run on skis in about 12 minutes as a kid. Factor in gondola time and you can do at least two runs per hour. But we all know that relaxed skiing is very different from committed carving.

Myself, I do 1-2 runs if it is my lunch break, 3-4 leisurely runs if I have more time, and call it a day. It's only five minutes from my house, so most of the overhead time goes into getting dressed.

Edited March 19, 2021 by Aracan

[Deuxdiesel]

Both are at fault, but only the lawyers will win if it goes to court.  Years ago I was called to be an expert witness for a case involving a collision between a boarder and a skier years ago.  The injured skier's attorney was trying to convince the court that snowboards are inherently less controllable than skis and therefor it was the boarders fault and the ski area was liable for allowing them on the same hill together.  He even brought in a board and comically tried to demonstrate how boarders have to hop into the air and pivot in order to turn, thus leaving the snow and becoming momentarily out of control.   In the end, the court awarded medical costs to the skier, but nothing for pain and suffering or loss of work.  I think there is still a public perception that boarders have less control than skiers, and the yard sale in this video reinforces that perception.  

[queequeg]

8 hours ago, Deuxdiesel said:

He even brought in a board and comically tried to demonstrate how boarders have to hop into the air and pivot in order to turn, thus leaving the snow and becoming momentarily out of control. 

Lolz. This is so awesome. In my fantasy dream world you rebutted that painfully bad testimony like Marisa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny, when she busted out a bunch of @johnasmo youtube videos to demonstrate how snowboarders actually turn, causing the plaintiff to dismiss all charges—and then everyone in the jury ran out to buy Coliers and Doneks so they could rip killer turns just like Joe Pesci does. That’s how it went right???

[HillB]

Both involved are completely fine.  The skier posted on Tic Tok,  and this went viral, even made Unofficial Networks. I know the person involved, and he just wants all the publicity to go away. 

Edited March 19, 2021 by HillB

[GeoffV]

I just got back from an overnight with my son at Sunday River. Towards the end of the day my son and I were doing laps on White Heat's double black. It was only 3 1/2 groom widths so I was working pretty damn hard to tighten up the radius of my Contra. The trail has about 3 sections where the pitch increases and you don't have a good view up hill to see who is coming down. Every time I got to the top I made sure I was the only one on that trail because I was taking up the entire trail going down. I stopped at every new pitch pulled over to see if anyone was coming down. Towards the lower part of the trail it opens to a wider trail and flattens out to more of a regular black diamond trail. I had a skier blow by me a pretty good clip that startled me. I was on my toeside and he was about 2 groomer widths away from me, but moving fast. He yelled out "nice fking turns" as he blew by. Next lap he passed me again mid carve higher up where it was tighter. I caught up to him at lift and he was all stoked up at the rooster tail I guess I was leaving carving down. I thanked him and as asked him politely if he would please not pass me on the steeper narrow terrain so I don't accidentally slice him in half. He was a former racer and was actually very nice and agreed that he would have a tough time stopping if something went wrong with me. He did say that he was trying to follow me to watch. I asked him to please give me proper space and not pass me until the trail is wide enough to safely pass me, which he politely agreed to.

     I just wanted to share this because this was actually a very good interaction with a knowledgeable and good skier who agreed and realized that he was buzzing the tower a little to close for my comfort. After that he kept his distance and we had some good conversation on the lift. 

[Deuxdiesel]

On 3/19/2021 at 2:42 PM, queequeg said:

Lolz. This is so awesome. In my fantasy dream world you rebutted that painfully bad testimony like Marisa Tomei in My Cousin Vinny, when she busted out a bunch of @johnasmo youtube videos to demonstrate how snowboarders actually turn, causing the plaintiff to dismiss all charges—and then everyone in the jury ran out to buy Coliers and Doneks so they could rip killer turns just like Joe Pesci does. That’s how it went right???

Well, I did make him look pretty foolish by eloquently contradicting him, but I heard from the ski area owner that after I was dismissed, he basically told the jury I didn't know what I was talking about.   No skin off my nose.  I'm still right,  and he is still a wealthy personal injury lawyer.