Growth in our sport?

[Shred Gruumer]

4 hours ago, lowrider said:

Were the naked assed punks wearing red hats ?  

Really now.......  Bad Lowrider...Bad boy!!    

[SunSurfer]

Freeride/freecarving in hard boots with stepins.

Snowboarding for grown-ups!

That's how I often describe it to those who ask about the equipment on chairs and gondolas. The manufacturers are missing a whole marketing demographic with significant discretionary money to spend.

[Kurt Swanson]

1 hour ago, SunSurfer said:

Freeride/freecarving in hard boots with stepins.

Snowboarding for grown-ups!

That's how I often describe it to those who ask about the equipment on chairs and gondolas. The manufacturers are missing a whole marketing demographic with significant discretionary money to spend.

 

I've been thinking the same thing for years. Most of the snowboards I see look like they were designed for kids. Just toys...

[lowrider]

6 hours ago, Shred Gruumer said:

Really now.......  Bad Lowrider...Bad boy!!    

Well it was either that or Make North Korea Great Again.                                               Hows the new board working out ?

[Shred Gruumer]

54 minutes ago, lowrider said:

Well it was either that or Make North Korea Great Again.                                               Hows the new board working out ?

Shhhhh. Coiler comes next week... Plankenstien revisited... Doh. 

[Poloturbo]

Growth within "our sport". What does growth really mean too you?

I see for the first few times advance carving courses at my home small local hills. 12 years old boys taking level advance or expert but not hitting the park but learning to carve. They even talk to that old man always going late at that home hill on the the swallow Fullbag and are interested. 

That's growth to me. They are learning fast...

 

[SunSurfer]

The World Masters Winter Games will be held in Innsbruck in 2020. There are no snowboarding events. To me, that reflects the overall focus in snowboarding on youth, and the degree to which older boarders are ignored.

[Jack M]

On 2/28/2019 at 2:15 PM, BlueB said:

On the all-mountain thing, I disagree. It's probably where the missed opportunity was, for h/boots, all these decades.

Well, that's an activity that is different than the one I am most passionate about, race-derived freecarving on groomers.  Gear that's best for one is not the best for the other.  Or even good.

On 2/28/2019 at 2:15 PM, BlueB said:

I think Joerg of PB has got it right... The biggest obstacle was the lack, or understanding, of proper gear really suitable for A/M.

I think it's more of a lack of interest.  There have been options for gear good for A/M for a long time.  For several years Burton alone was making 3 levels of Boots (Earth, Wind, Fire), at least 2 levels of bindings (Race Plate, Carrier) and 4 levels of boards (FP, UP, Coil, Fusion) for all different kinds of hardbooting.  Boards like the Prior 4WD and Donek Axxess have been around for a long time, as well as custom options.  And then there have always been AT boots.

On 2/28/2019 at 2:15 PM, BlueB said:

As the hard boots lost the battle, the boot and somewhat binding development has stopped and snowboarding lost the opportunity to have better gear across the board. 

I'm just not seeing this.  The gear keeps getting better if you ask me.  Granted we are into the "diminishing returns" part of the curve, but the gear right now is awesome IMO.

On 2/28/2019 at 8:27 PM, Gabe T said:

Our hill has traditionally hosted our Provincial Alpine snowboard championships and that is where I would see a large number of younger riders participate in the sport.   I wonder how many of them actually continue to ride once they are done with their racing programs.    In all my years of riding, I'm not sure I can recall meeting any carvers that had a racing background when they were younger.

I hear you, but racing is the only place that I personally have ever seen any kids taking an interest in alpine.  If my nephew and his friend stick with it, I will have replaced myself by 200%, thanks to youth racing.

 

On 2/28/2019 at 2:45 PM, lowrider said:

Perhaps the question to ask those who ski is  why don't you try something different ? Aren't you tired of skiing down the same old run year after year when you could experience it from a whole new perspective ?

You could ask that of almost anyone, including me.  When I want a different perspective I softboot.  I have no interest in even trying Telemarking, Teleboarding, Snowblades, Snoyaking, etc.  Human nature.  You're not going to argue someone into becoming interested in something, you just have to show it to them and then it comes from within, or not.

[Corey]

1 hour ago, Jack M said:

You're not going to argue someone into becoming interested in something, you just have to show it to them and then it comes from within, or not.

This is so true! You can present it in a positive light, but then the rest is up to them. 

[thechonger]

One problem is the entry for little kids, does anyone make boots / boards / bindings for kids?  My son started skiing before he was 2 years old and he started softbooting at 6.  Now he is 11 and would like to try hardbooting, but where can he get the gear?

[jng]

 

15 minutes ago, thechonger said:

One problem is the entry for little kids, does anyone make boots / boards / bindings for kids?  My son started skiing before he was 2 years old and he started softbooting at 6.  Now he is 11 and would like to try hardbooting, but where can he get the gear?

I cobbled together used gear from here, eBay and Facebook but it's not easy to build a setup just to try out. I will PM you about a board that may work for your son. 

[Lurch]

45 minutes ago, jng said:

I cobbled together used gear from here, eBay and Facebook but it's not easy to build a setup just to try out. I will PM you about a board that may work for your son. 

Along this line, it seems boots are always the sticking point when offering interested people a test ride/demo.

Perhaps a thread for new starters with details of loaner boots/gear might help bring a few more over?

Edited March 4, 2019 by Lurch
Come my pretties

[Eboot]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

Perhaps a thread for new starters with details of loaner boots/gear might help bring a few more over?

Perhaps we could hold stock that can be delivered at shipping cost

As kids grow out of current set they donate and replace

i would put my 10 year old into hardboots to try but it’s easier to have her start carving with soft boots on a suitable board, but even this only lasts 1 year or more befor she outgrows it

[Jack M]

15 hours ago, Lurch said:

Perhaps a thread for new starters with details of loaner boots/gear might help bring a few more over?

Several years ago I had pinned threads called "Gear to Loan" in each Ride Board forum for exactly this.  Almost nobody listed their loaner gear.  I deleted those threads recently because they just didn't look good sitting there empty.

[daveo]

Tough thread to have, though. Honestly before I'd loan anything, I'd really want to see the rider level and his or her character. Regardless of how old/crap my gear is.

I loaned my Kessler for half a day this season and also my Oxess. To a guy who has never ridden hardboots. And I knew for certain that they'd come back perfect and they did. Well, he rode with me anyway. He asked if I wanted him to get off the lift one footed so he doesn't ruin my stomp pad... This sort of guy. Plus he carved like a beast. Dragging his butt in the snow on the Oxess (2nd half day)... What the hell.

But, I would not loan my gear to some people who have 10 years experience because I know it'd get beat up.

[pmorita]

I'll take the opposite side on this.  I've been trying to find a board for my kid, but have boots and should have bindings soon.  If anyone wants to borrow something to let their kid or friends try, I have the following.  Just send me a shipping label and return it a week later.

Raichle something or others in size 22.5 and 25.  

If all goes well I'll have a full setup with size 11 boots and a 160 ish board.

Whatever it takes to get more people to have a taste.  We all want the same thing here so let's make it easier.

[BlueB]

On 3/4/2019 at 2:53 PM, Jack M said:

Well, that's an activity that is different than the one I am most passionate about, race-derived freecarving on groomers.  Gear that's best for one is not the best for the other.  Or even good.

I think it's more of a lack of interest.  There have been options for gear good for A/M for a long time.  For several years Burton alone was making 3 levels of Boots (Earth, Wind, Fire), at least 2 levels of bindings (Race Plate, Carrier) and 4 levels of boards (FP, UP, Coil, Fusion) for all different kinds of hardbooting.  Boards like the Prior 4WD and Donek Axxess have been around for a long time, as well as custom options.  And then there have always been AT boots.

I'm just not seeing this.  The gear keeps getting better if you ask me.  Granted we are into the "diminishing returns" part of the curve, but the gear right now is awesome IMO. 

4WD and Axxess are great board, but they are not true all-mountain boards. Try riding something truly technical on them and you'll run into serious problems. The ATW was probably the first board approaching the target. Now days there are more choices... 

I know you don't like carving on that type of board. But, they are not ment for high speed, large radius, balls out carving. They are just supposed to carve a touch better then soft boot freeride boards and still performe well in pow, moguls, chop, etc. That opens the door to hit whatever a mountain has ahead. 

Boots need to be much lighter, more adjustable (lean, flex, progresiveness), to have walk mode and vibram soles, much less ramp... AT boots are close, but lack some of the features above. 

Don't get me wrong, carving gear is great, but all-round hard boot gear has long way to go. 

Now, if that kind of better gear existed and was marketed properly (a very hard thing to do), I don't see why lots of the current soft boot crowd wouldn't be on hard boots. But, maybe that's not the kind of growth that OP was talking about... 

[Marshsram]

I am a lone wolf!! 

My thoughts are that we need to convince these snowboard instructors that there are alpine riders and freestyle riders. If you wanna rip teach the kids to point the toes forward.

I ride with poles with my splitboard and its interesting to watch kids try and replicate riding with poles while in a duck foot stance. So I do my part and try and get them to point the toes forward.

 

[Marshsram]

On 2/26/2019 at 8:46 PM, David Kirk said:

I think one of the core issues is that it doesn't matter what gear you are riding (boards or skis) spending time on groomers isn't the cool thing to do. Sure if you are a ski racer running gates you rail turns on groomers but most people on the hill aspire to move away from the groomers and onto the steeps and bumps or park. The "good/cool guys" on the hill only use a groomer to get back to the lift.

Couple this with the fact that most snowboarders get into snowboarding for the freestyle/freeride aspects of the sport.....and these activities do not take place on groomed snow. Groomers aren't cool.

So....IMO.....the way to get more people on alpine boards is to appeal to those people who are predisposed to wanting to spend time on groomers and to find a more fun way to do it. In my mind this means skiers. They are comfortable with the boots and the forward stance and they appreciate a perfectly carved turn on groomed snow.

I was level III AASI instructor years ago and rode hard boots full time. I taught a good number of fellow instructors how to carve on alpine gear but 9 times out of 10 it was ski instructors, and not snowboard, that wanted to learn how to do it.

Target people who like spending time carving turns and put them on one ski instead of two and they'll have a ball.....trying to take a 22 year old kid who uses soft boots set at 5° out of the park and steeps and putting them on a groomer will seldom work.

My 2 cents.

dave

You can rip moguls, powder jumps etc. with a splitboard and hardboots as well. If you ask me splitboarding with hardboots is the answer.

[Eboot]

Was at Mt Wachusett today, first day time ride for me this season.  Was more than shocked to see at least 15 different softbooters all working at getting their boards on edge, exactly as I started.

[nuisanceIV]

@Jack M Setting up those courses is pretty pricey. In WA, USASA isn't doing slalom this year, I emailed them asking why and they said it's the cost and the fact there's a low turnout. Bachelor does -all- their racing meets in one day. Hood isn't doing any I think?

My local mountain sets up courses all the time... But for skiers. A lotta' the courses are for skiers. I'm probably an oddball here since I'm 22 and looking to start hitting the course, but things like this make it hard. Then there's the price of some training and better gear. Yikes!

 

Yeah maybe you're onto something with the youth racing, simply having more gear in circulation would help a lot.

[b0ardski]

thought I'd cross post this here since it"s relevant

I had a great lift ride on the stella 6pack; lots of peeps tying to fill the gates when I hear a woman on skis say to her friends "lets stop at the top, I wanna ask about his board"(172 thirst BX free69 boots with stepins). they had 5 so I jump in to ride up with them, turns out they are all ski instructors. Best conversation I've ever had w/strangers explaining the whys and wheres of the gear and style/stance to folks that understood what I was talking about. More likely converts than any softbooter I've ever met

[wrathfuldeity]

On 3/7/2019 at 7:47 PM, Marshsram said:

You can rip moguls, powder jumps etc. with a splitboard and hardboots as well. If you ask me splitboarding with hardboots is the answer.

I resemble this, a very recent convert to hardboots and splitboard...all mountian resort and bc.  Absolutely love my Atomic Backlands...the response, performance and comfort....significantly better than my softies.

Anyway back to the point of the thread.  Why not do a "carvers fest or ball?"  The whole splitboard thing has rocketed in the past 5 years.  Imo its in part because folks were able to see it from the lifts; then with the fests, could actually touch, drool and get educated/talk with folks.  But in essence, folks began to envision themselves doing it and then had an event/opportunity in which to ask questions, do some demos and see if they want to venture further.  Its also about co-lab with similar programs...why couldn't the local ski race club participate...because it about carving and going fast.  Besides every hill has its groomer daze...so why not go fast.

Edited March 11, 2019 by wrathfuldeity

[Keenan]

10 hours ago, b0ardski said:

thought I'd cross post this here since it"s relevant

I had a great lift ride on the stella 6pack; lots of peeps tying to fill the gates when I hear a woman on skis say to her friends "lets stop at the top, I wanna ask about his board"(172 thirst BX free69 boots with stepins). they had 5 so I jump in to ride up with them, turns out they are all ski instructors. Best conversation I've ever had w/strangers explaining the whys and wheres of the gear and style/stance to folks that understood what I was talking about. More likely converts than any softbooter I've ever met

I believe that we could convert more skiers to our sport if more of us rode with poles!

[Jack M]

22 hours ago, wrathfuldeity said:

Anyway back to the point of the thread.  Why not do a "carvers fest or ball?" 

Yup, there have been several of those over the years.  Organizing one properly is not an insignificant task.  We have a section for these gatherings here:

http://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/forum/78-carve-sessions/