lowrider Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 Relaxing carving is not possible if you happen to be following Bruce and Gabe around in white out conditions. 4 days later I can take a deep breath and walk normally but vertigo got the best of me after about 3 hrs. of blind riding. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 29, 2019 Report Share Posted January 29, 2019 (edited) VO2 max measured with anything apart from a formal cardio-pulmonary exercise lab facility is going to be based on so many assumptions as to be almost worthless. Hard charging carving is anaerobic exercise, with oxygen demand exceeding the ability of the lungs, heart and bloodstream to supply oxygen to the involved muscles. Edited January 29, 2019 by SunSurfer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 On 1/25/2019 at 2:14 PM, Kneel said: Then I started breathing. It's amazing the change that occurs in your body when it has sufficient oxygen. The second half hour is where the real growth happened. The simple modification of inhaling the carve, exhale on the transition freed my brain up to think ahead to the next series of turns. Things get even easier when you can visualize the future. I started hitting 80, 90 then 100%. The final half hour I could link up to 8 pairs before I ran out of real estate. Probably the best and most fun practice session I've ever had. 12 hours ago, Kneel said: But a vast improvement over the old system of holding my breath through the entire length of the carve, a forceful exhalation then violent gasp before I would tighten up for the next turn. It was a totally dysfunctional system that I tolerated for years. Good for you for making progress and finding a way forward. Something to consider: If 'regular' breathing is known to facilitate relaxation, and if relaxation is an important/desirable component of fluid movement on snow, then why do you suppose 'easy' respiration is so often affected by the action of carving, or trying to carve a turn? Not so much in the sense of prior athletic experience/conditioned response, (as in the weightlifting scenario), but more in the sense of general riding and attempts at game improvement. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 (edited) 5 hours ago, SunSurfer said: Hard charging carving is (for many, but not all riders) anaerobic exercise, with oxygen demand exceeding the ability of the lungs, heart and bloodstream to supply oxygen to the involved muscles. Fixed so as to maintain hope for the hopeful. Edited January 30, 2019 by Beckmann AG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said: Fixed so as to maintain hope for the hopeful. Nope it’s anaerobic for everybody. I doubt even WC racers could do it continuously for more than a few minutes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said: Fixed so as to maintain hope for the hopeful. I used to race middle distance track (800 & 1500m). When I'm "hard charging" I mean that I'm going at race pace in terms of quads muscle effort, not a pace that can be sustained for 30-60 minutes on end (training pace). I don't have any issues with my breathing rhythm at that level of effort, having regularly exerted myself at that level for the last 50+ years. I also train for my snowboarding, a recent bike workout involved 1400m of hill climbing at average 1: 10 gradients. Hopeful doesn't cut it. Riders wanting to ride well will deliberately develop strength and stamina in order to maintain accuracy and duration of performance. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 Middle distance is for people who love pain... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 9 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: Good for you for making progress and finding a way forward. Something to consider: If 'regular' breathing is known to facilitate relaxation, and if relaxation is an important/desirable component of fluid movement on snow, then why do you suppose 'easy' respiration is so often affected by the action of carving, or trying to carve a turn? Not so much in the sense of prior athletic experience/conditioned response, (as in the weightlifting scenario), but more in the sense of general riding and attempts at game improvement. That's a great question, certainly one I'm nowhere near smart enough to answer. Is it the chicken or the egg? I've always been a good athlete, but my only perspective of "expertise" has been golf and drums. Throw in carving, which I consider myself low intermediate at best, and they all couldn't be farther from each other, but I believe they can all be tackled from the same direction. Whether breathing facilitates myelination(sp?, more oxygen to the brain) or breathing is a byproduct of myelination(hey you can relax now that I have a supergharged path to execute this skill)...I don't know. I suppose the individual can condition themselves either way. And I have! But my personal experience has me convinced the "better" system of pushing through those "oh shit" or "how do I progress further" moments is by, well...breathing through it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pauleleven Posted January 30, 2019 Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 19 hours ago, daveo said: Your cousin. The table tennis player. I have no such cousin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 23 hours ago, Corey said: Haha, I'm naturally dedicated to spend more time than I'm willing to admit on introspection. Repeat. Try to suck a bit less every time. Some key take away points for me. I am using this thread as my note book and supplemental to my carving journal. We/I often focus on the A-list rider's end result -- BTW there are ever so many. (ECES/SES/ACT/MCC) Session Royalties. In no particular order that I fortune enough to witness their carving prowess: Corey, Gabe, The Montuckey Crew, Jack, Geoff, RiceBall, Trent, MikeT, Mellow Yellow/Helmeut, Bruce, TB, Mr. Stratton/Paul, Jose, Norm, Steph/Alex/Shaggy, Z-carver, carve father, Curt, PureBoarding crew and so on and on. Apology in advance; brain capacity is limited. Often in jest "we" write them off as 'good genetic/cyborg" but unless you are one of those freak of nature who is born oozing carving talents. I/we often missing the hard work/dedication behind the success. Introspection is something I do often but the end result isn't quite as efficient as I would like. I think I am making progress in the right direction but slower than my liking. cliche: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 30, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 30, 2019 16 hours ago, SunSurfer said: VO2 max measured with anything apart from a formal cardio-pulmonary exercise lab facility is going to be based on so many assumptions as to be almost worthless. Hard charging carving is anaerobic exercise, with oxygen demand exceeding the ability of the lungs, heart and bloodstream to supply oxygen to the involved muscles. Agree 100% with Alan and Neil's point on VO2Max. My intention isn't to compare with other people. I use it as a basic fitness indicator for myself. Last year with Vo2Max of 53/54 I was able to barely carve for 7 days straight in Aspen. It's also a good gauge for me to keep myself in a half marathon readiness state. Meaning I like to stay in a shape where I can go out and run a half marathon for fun at the moment of notice. This is my placebo way of thinking and/or method to adjust my weekly running mileage/intensity to offset the inevitable aging. All great points. We might be all in "violent agreement". Basic fitness level is good. The more fit you are the better you are at taking punishment when learning. Learning progression are iterative. The better you are at riding; the more relax you are, the more efficient/dynamic one become. When we are dynamic: muscle does not get tense up long term/breath doesn't need to be hold in. Like @Kneel stated: chicken vs egg. My goals might be contradicting/unobtainable for me in this life time: Able to relax on trail that challenge me. Get to a level where fitness level is less of a hard requirement Type of trail I would like to conquer eventually while being "relax" and less "violent". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 14 hours ago, pauleleven said: I have no such cousin You sure? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 @Kneel you inspired me to take more notice of my breathing today. More times than I'd like to admit I found myself holding my breath for multiple turns. Had to be mindful to inhale entry, hold apex, exhale exit. Really made a difference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 5 hours ago, daveo said: @Kneel you inspired me to take more notice of my breathing today. More times than I'd like to admit I found myself holding my breath for multiple turns. Had to be mindful to inhale entry, hold apex, exhale exit. Really made a difference. Best advice I got from a pro mountain biker is to just focus on the exhale, inhaling will sort itself out. When you get used to exhaling while you are under exertion while snowboarding (for example), it typically carries over to most kinds of other activities that require exertion. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 14 minutes ago, st_lupo said: Best advice I got from a pro mountain biker is to just focus on the exhale, inhaling will sort itself out. When you get used to exhaling while you are under exertion while snowboarding (for example), it typically carries over to most kinds of other activities that require exertion. Thanks for that advice. I'll try tomorrow. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted January 31, 2019 Report Share Posted January 31, 2019 On 1/30/2019 at 3:16 PM, SunSurfer said: I used to race middle distance track (800 & 1500m). When I'm "hard charging" I mean that I'm going at race pace in terms of quads muscle effort, not a pace that can be sustained for 30-60 minutes on end (training pace). I don't have any issues with my breathing rhythm at that level of effort, having regularly exerted myself at that level for the last 50+ years. I also train for my snowboarding, a recent bike workout involved 1400m of hill climbing at average 1: 10 gradients. Hopeful doesn't cut it. Riders wanting to ride well will deliberately develop strength and stamina in order to maintain accuracy and duration of performance. I can see the breathing patterns bin your events being related to carving. Unfortunately for me, my events, not so much. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 2, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 Entry Day 11. 2018-2019 season. Berkshire East Cold, Epic Snow(just a hair soft). Not soft enough for the nose to fold but soft enough when putting down the hammer it slow down enough to make transition more challenge. New problem: stalling... carve speed aways is great for speed control but bleed too much speed and go up hill too much cause stall. Carry a bit of speed help me with transition. Balance: always look for the balance. Trails: upper comp(ok), lower comp(good), hamlock(good), exhibition(good), umass(meh/narrow) Stating the obvious: -- same mountain/same trail Condition make a huge difference. A thin line between Heaven/Hell Mental game -- I find myself tense up in narrow trail. Despite same pitch wider trail I am ok. Must work on lack of mental fortitude. Rear Boots continue to be source of problem: -- zipfit the answer? bladder 1 -- comfortable but getting heel lift bladder 2 -- no heel lift but hot spot Trying stock UPZ liner (el-cheapO) -- Project - Mix Boots It's at the point where it might finally broke my foot in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 Focus on the next turn until it becomes the end of your current turn...simplicity is the way to relax...there is no other way 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 18 minutes ago, pow4ever said: Mental game -- I find myself tense up in narrow trail. Despite same pitch wider trail I am ok. Must work on lack of mental fortitude. Share your tips once you get this figured out! Once it drops to 2 groomer passes or less my comfort level goes way down. I have careened into a safety fence at the side of a trail before. Terrifying... Couldn't see the fence in my panic, could only see the trees behind it. :shudder: 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 1 hour ago, pow4ever said: but bleed too much speed and go up hill too much cause stall. If you're going up the hill too much, odds are you are still on edge when you should be coming off edge. This will be more apparent as a problem when the snow is softer and the board develops more bend per degree of tilt than on hard snow. 1 hour ago, pow4ever said: but hot spot Where? Got photo? Might be a kitchen counter fix. 1 hour ago, pow4ever said: Mental game -- I find myself tense up in narrow trail. Despite same pitch wider trail I am ok. Must work on lack of mental fortitude. That's (probably) one of your brains telling you that you lack the time to do the thing you want to do the way you want to do it. Might be related to the stalling thing... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Ace* Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 I almost went up to Berkshire East today too. Might try for Monday if all goes to plan. I think Beckmann is pretty spot on. You should maybe try to ride a wide trail narrow so you can build your confidence. For instance at Berkshire East if you are on lower Comp only ride the right side of the trail, and ride it tight. When I was there last week they were setting up a race course on lower Comp and they left a nice little slot between the edge of the trail and the gates. @pow4ever What board were you riding today? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik J Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 3 hours ago, pow4ever said: Mental game -- I find myself tense up in narrow trail. Despite same pitch wider trail I am ok. Must work on lack of mental fortitude. Pick your chin up a bit. If you let your gaze fall toward the ground you may become reactive to snow features and the space immediately in front of you. Lifting up your chin may open up your field of view and allow you to look further into the turns you want/need to make. Relax your shoulders too if you find yourself pulling them up toward your ears. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticBoarder Posted February 2, 2019 Report Share Posted February 2, 2019 5 hours ago, pow4ever said: Mental game -- I find myself tense up in narrow trail. Despite same pitch wider trail I am ok. Must work on lack of mental fortitude. For what it is worth, I sometimes will try and force myself to ride close to one side of a wide trail so I can make myself more comfortable with a narrow space, just one side at a time. It helps atleast a little bit, I've been able to better predict how far my board will turn, still working on more controll of it with technique refinement. After I get fundamentals down more solid, I want to focus on riding near obsticals such as lift towers and slow signs, etc, as I feel just as uncomfortable if not more so near them. Then push myself to get close and ride circles around them! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 3, 2019 Author Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 @*Ace* Mike, Robin and I will be at the Beast tomorrow. I am riding Donek 175 Rev with modify side cut (11 nose/13 tail side cut). Corey: Like wise; please do share. 2 groomer width is really narrow. I won't even attempt; live to carve another day lol. Erik J: How are you! Long time. It was ECES? Great advice; target fixation bad... 23 hours ago, softbootsurfer said: Focus on the next turn until it becomes the end of your current turn...simplicity is the way to relax...there is no other way Bob: I think I am almost ready for that advice. Not quite there just yet but getting closer to be able to figure out how to work on it. Far from being able to do it lol. AcousticBoarder: I hate/afraid lift tower, gate, stubby, piece of gum on the trail... Force myself to carve around things that I am not used to and not "cheat" Basically getting out of the comfort zone have been painful sometime but very rewarding so far. Found another weakness today (it's like having a colander for soup bowl): Don't particular like double fall line trails. Guess I don't ride trail like that enough. Dave is the name; one trick pony is the game lol... Erik: Snow is just tiny bit soft yesterday. Today I seems to be doing much better. I know my brain is defective lol... I used my Dalbello gold liner (more stiff) which was molded to my Raichle AF700 in the track700 boots. Didn't mold it; just a science experiment. Since this liner have bunch more boot fitter foam/rubber added to help with heel lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted February 3, 2019 Report Share Posted February 3, 2019 Riding up the chair this morning... Relaxed Carving is not done by Doing Nothing, but rather by Doing Everything, while being Relaxed... 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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