Beckmann AG Posted January 16, 2019 Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 3 hours ago, pow4ever said: What I do find certain things like timing is difficult for me to practice on easier trail. Which is my major road block as my brain is just seem slower. If you find you can't make a movement when you want to make a movement, this is a conflict between the inside brain and the outside brain. The inside brain is responsible in part for maintaining equilibrium/stability, and as such, has dominance. The outside brain is responsible for ordering the food/wine without doing the research, and as such is often disappointed. In other words, if you can't move at slow speeds, it's probably because you're trying to move something that shouldn't/cant be moved without objection from the inside brain. Which means you have to try moving something else, something smaller, to get the desired result. And of course that might not make much sense out of context. 3 hours ago, pow4ever said: What you described is post doc level math; I am still in kindergarten eating crayon lol. It can certainly seem that way. However, there are only so many ways to get a board to turn, which means the goal, while asymptotic, can at least be approached. Even with 'crayon teeth'. E.g., If, in order to make a turn to the left, you choose to angulate in order to tilt the board, and I choose to invert my front foot and evert my rear in order to do the same thing, I'm closer to the goal than you are, despite both of us tilting our boards. And your mode takes longer, on account of moving more parts in anticipation of, rather than as a byproduct of the edging/turning process. Which brings me to the next point. Overtly, the Bruce Lee 'be water' thing suggests flow. Which is nice. And damp. As I read it, he's cautioning against assuming too much about an opponent, and using those assumptions to establish a particular approach to the conflict. Instead, he's suggesting to (get this) 'become' the opponent, and defeat said opponent by exactly matching 'response' to 'power'. No more, no less. Flow isn't cause, it's effect. So the next time you ride, see what the snow and the board ask of you, rather than assuming a particular action/posture will deliver a particular outcome. If you're going to deconstruct your riding in the low energy context, minimise the floating variables by using the board on which you feel most comfortable while moving slowly. Preferably something with a radial sidecut, soft longitudinal flex, standard camber, and a sidecut in the 10m range. Glass is nice, but not required. If your clampy things wobble, tighten them down, or use something else. The idea is to identify, as best possible, which sensations accompany which outcomes, and then use that information for refinement. E.g., if you feel boot cuff before you feel sole contact while trying to turn, that's probably not a good thing. If you feel like you are generally on one foot or the other, but not both simultaneously, that's another clue. If you find that one particular muscle group heats up when you're doing very little, that's not appropriate. And so forth. It can be a lot to think about, because there's a lot going on. Until there isn't. And then you can relax. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 16, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 16, 2019 7 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said: It can be a lot to think about, because there's a lot going on. Until there isn't. And then you can relax. Nice! I need to listen/hear better but the sensor receptor are defective. I often can't tell if I am "more stable" or "less stable" -- like in the eye exam. One of my eye just doesn't work as well as the other and doctor keep ask me "better" or "worse" when all I see is the same blob.... It's not the instruction/instructor... this pupil is defective. On the steep: I can make the movement but timing is off/slow since there are less time to do it. The end result is much more exaggerated movement as you predicted and hence the "violent" part. Just throwing my body as coping mechanism. On easy slope: I do try to make tighter turn but often stall as end result. Find the right balance/timing are in sight but just hair out of reach. Thank you again! It give me lots to think about which could be a blocker by itself. If you are a Futurama fan: Episode XMas Story -- Professor win ski race by sleeping through the whole thing. That's what I want Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 IMHO One thing for sure is, that you cannot relax, without the appropriate "Time on Snow" ... no one can tell you how to Relax... that ONLY comes from Experience, from knowing what is going to happen on varied terrain and different surfaces...The entire Pure Carve crew, are the most relaxed HB group I have seen...I have seen a lot of Carvers at All the Sessions...All are striving for the Feeling of Power that comes when you are relaxed...when we play our Stick, like a guitar String...when the Transitions seems to melt into.... anyway enjoy the Ride 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 17, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 1 hour ago, softbootsurfer said: "Time on Snow" ... no one can tell you how to Relax... that ONLY comes from Experience, from knowing what is going to happen on varied terrain and different surfaces... I have seen a lot of Carvers at All the Sessions...All are striving for the Feeling of Power that comes when you are relaxed...when we play our Stick, like a guitar String...when the Transitions seems to melt into.... anyway enjoy the Ride Thank you Bob! Nicely put. like a nice bottle of wine; it need time to mature. I am just afraid this one is turning into vinegar lol.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 1:32 PM, Beckmann AG said: To that end, make sure you really understand which inputs matter, and which ones don't. If it's not clear, ask. It's a very short list. And the significant inputs are??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 21 hours ago, softbootsurfer said: ...The entire Pure Carve crew, are the most relaxed HB group I have seen. Couldn’t agree more. Got their videos on an endless loop in my mind. Having ridden the past few years just about every weekend with Pat Donnelly all I can say is that the smooth relaxed carving you see is both pure in form and pure in motion. No excess wasted energy. It is deceiving because they look quiet but they are simply moving their center of mass in synch with the edge reaction vector almost effortlessly. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 On 1/17/2019 at 3:28 AM, Neil Gendzwill said: You’ve ridden with Riceball, don’t think anybody is smoother than him. There's a YouTube video of Day 1 of SES 2015 at Buttermilk. Riceball is about the third rider in, red jacket green trousers. But to my eye, Trent who is in almost matching gear and is the first rider up is even more fluid and smooth. Been envious of both of these riders abilities since I first saw them. Corey is also in this opening sequence and is pretty damn smooth too. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted January 17, 2019 Report Share Posted January 17, 2019 Trent is pretty smooth, alright. Must be the red jacket/green pants combo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Everyone in the SES 2015 video looks worthy of emulation with a common thread of quiet relaxed motion for the most part! What I really like is the surface conditions. We have yet to have a significant snow storm in SE Michigan formerly billed as the "Winter Wonderland". Been riding on man-made all season. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fish Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 I never relax. I hate the very idea of it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 18 minutes ago, Chouinard said: Everyone in the SES 2015 video looks worthy of emulation with a common thread of quiet relaxed motion for the most part! What I really like is the surface conditions. We have yet to have a significant snow storm in SE Michigan formerly billed as the "Winter Wonderland". Been riding on man-made all season. Conditions the same in Southern Ontario and doesn't look like it's going to improve any time soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/16/2019 at 6:26 PM, pow4ever said: If you are a Futurama fan: Episode XMas Story -- Professor win ski race by sleeping through the whole thing. That's what I want Insightful. One of the other points of Time On Hill is to expose your CNS to equilibrium disruption with sufficient frequency that it begins to seem normal. So doing, you slow the 'clench' response that immediately deploys in the presence of 'iffy' footing. The same response that can prevent guiding movement in times of stress. E.g., Normally, if you walk on a slippery surface and a foot shifts, all motion comes to a stop until traction is regained. If you spend enough time doing this, you'll find the spaz response gradually subsides, to the extent your feet can slide around as though you were an extra in a Michael Jackson video, and the action continues unimpeded. This is analogous to lulling/distracting the inner brain, I.e, sleeping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 On 1/15/2019 at 10:49 PM, SunSurfer said: In his website videos he has a tendency on entering the heelside turn to drop back the outside arm and then as the turn progresses bring that arm forward and square up his shoulders across the board. It's almost as if there's pre-turn counter rotation of the upper body and then a rotation into the turn. On toe side his rear knee drops/is pushed down quite considerably as part of producing both edge pressure and body angulation at the waist. Looks like that knee touches/drags reasonably often, and the angulation looks a little awkward to my eye. But the videos are at least 5 years old, maybe older given the resolution. Everyones' style evolves/develops with time. That footage was shot circa 2005. Not sure, but I think that was before I shimmed my front binding to account for a leg length difference, so some of that admittedly funky funk may be related to fore/aft compensation, also the inherent time delay when moving from one edge to the other directly related to being 'off-center'. On 1/15/2019 at 10:49 PM, SunSurfer said: On toe side his rear knee drops/is pushed down quite considerably as part of producing both edge pressure and body angulation at the waist. Too much outward cant on the rear binding; see also compensation. 'Edge pressure' is a MacGuffin, so "No" to that. 4 hours ago, Chouinard said: And the significant inputs are??? A. The tilt of the board relative to the snow. B. The magnitude and location of the pressure you bear along the length and perpendicular to the topsheet of the board while affecting 'A'. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said: . The tilt of the board relative to the snow. If I understand your earlier statement you are using foot/ankle motion rather than knees/hips to tip the board!? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 16 minutes ago, Chouinard said: If I understand your earlier statement you are using foot/ankle motion rather than knees/hips to tip the board!? That I prefer, but you have three other options. 1. Weight on the front foot and kick the tail sideways. (amateur hour) 2. Full body lean (aka, The Norm. Takes up a lot of space and not particularly versatile) 3. Angulate as a means of developing more tilt in less time/space than is possible with full body lean. There are pros and cons to each. The benefit of steer-countersteer as opposed to simple angulation is that it does not preclude flexion/extension of the legs as a means of modulating net pressure through the arc of a turn and beyond. Steer-countersteer does involve angulation, but as a byproduct of upper lower body separation, rather than as a means to an end. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 I have been ever so slowly finding my way so I appreciate your insight. My current focus is to remain as quiet as possible, read no flailing body components, finding and getting up on edge and then maintain that feeling of the edge while progressive trying to get lower into a turn. If I understand your statements above, your saying that the initial edge engagement from the foot/ankle motion drives the reaction vector down and the rider's following center of mass, as he maintains his position in line with the falling vector, tilts the board higher on edge which then drops the vector down further on a feedback loop until you run uphill or out of bounds. It is unfortunate that I have a stubborn need to resolve everything to a physics based understanding but it's my way of sorting out the significant inputs. Surprisingly, I am starting to unweight during transitions to point where my tracks leave no witness marks at times. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt. Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 should we start to take notes? Will there be a quiz? Chouinard is on the same enlightened path as his Master! You go Grass Hopper! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 (edited) 5 minutes ago, billyt. said: should we start to take notes? Will there be a quiz? Chouinard is on the same enlightened path as his Master! You go Grass Hopper! If you're asking this late in the course @billyt. you should probably just drop the class. Edited January 18, 2019 by lonbordin 😁 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 2 hours ago, Chouinard said: It is unfortunate that I have a stubborn need to resolve everything to a physics based understanding but it's my way of sorting out the significant inputs. I find it extremely helpful to study analogs. In this case, inducing lean angle on a motorcycle. ->The unhampered ankle joint is directly analogous to the steering axis on a bike. 2 hours ago, Chouinard said: My current focus is to remain as quiet as possible, read no flailing body components, finding and getting up on edge and then maintain that feeling of the edge while progressive trying to get lower into a turn. 'Flailing'/ rapid movements are providing important info as to what is going on within the system. If you purposely quell them, you're ignoring the conversation. When they no longer take place as a byproduct of your inputs to the board, you're on the right path. 2 hours ago, Chouinard said: I am starting to unweight during transitions How so? (by what means). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 15 hours ago, fish said: I never relax. I hate the very idea of it. Is that Ken? May I ask why? Don't get me wrong I still do enjoy the rawness/"brutality" aspect of it. As I get older: I find I can't listen to "cookie monster music" all the time as in my youth. Need something mellower from time to time lol. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=64K00Uamjn0 ref "cookie monster music"https://www.wsj.com/articles/SB113875020821161491 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 13 hours ago, Beckmann AG said: E.g., Normally, if you walk on a slippery surface and a foot shifts, all motion comes to a stop until traction is regained. If you spend enough time doing this, you'll find the spaz response gradually subsides, to the extent your feet can slide around as though you were an extra in a Michael Jackson video, and the action continues unimpeded. Yes! I called them auto pilot mode. Once in a while I somehow miraculous recovered from being way too back. Don't know how it happen but just did. Would like to do it all the time. Could be the Coiler/Donek "Save-your-tail tail" TM. Another great points by the Good Doctor is start the movement from the bottom of the stack: feet/ankle and go up from there. Now that I think about: I start my movement from the shin and up; which result in more exaggerate movement than necessary. The "bad feedback" result in more and more counter movement. Thank you all for chiming in and share your wisdom. This "stuff" is gold and I can't get enough of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 16 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said: Trent is pretty smooth, alright. Must be the red jacket/green pants combo. I think we cracked the code. Red jacket/green pants on order. It's the black lotus for our sports. Expect +3 on carving skill lol. Personally I really like Jim's style. Not super clean per se but "authoritative"... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Stevens Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 Jumping in late here. I’m sure this was mentioned earlier, but if “relaxation” is really the effort you perceive you’re applying, then being stronger than you are now would arguably be equal in benefit to being more technically proficient . The reality is one where if you ride a lot and exercise equally, then you’ll be on a much faster track to riding full gas while feeling like you’re only at half throttle. As long as you’re working from the same base strength, your track to improvement will take a lot longer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 18, 2019 Author Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 22 minutes ago, Rob Stevens said: Jumping in late here. I’m sure this was mentioned earlier, but if “relaxation” is really the effort you perceive you’re applying, then being stronger than you are now would arguably be equal in benefit to being more technically proficient . The reality is one where if you ride a lot and exercise equally, then you’ll be on a much faster track to riding full gas while feeling like you’re only at half throttle. As long as you’re working from the same base strength, your track to improvement will take a lot longer. Great point! For me fitness is table stake for Alpine Snowboarding. It occur to me that despite I can put the same level of effort in gym/work out but as I get older eventually diminish return take place. At most I can delay the inevitable. Hence something need to change; work on better technique as I relay quiet a bit on my "youth"/"strength" as crotches. Professional athlete spent lots of time in strength training. This mere mortal are not bless with superior genetic nor I have the luxury to be a gym rat. I would love to but gotta get paid. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chouinard Posted January 18, 2019 Report Share Posted January 18, 2019 3 hours ago, billyt. said: should we start to take notes? Will there be a quiz? Chouinard is on the same enlightened path as his Master! You go Grass Hopper! If I can one day grab the pebble that will be good enough...but you may have to angulate your hand so I can do so! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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