Is "relaxing" carving possible?

[Beckmann AG]

1 hour ago, Rob Stevens said:

Jumping in late here. 

I’m sure this was mentioned earlier, but if “relaxation” is really the effort you perceive you’re applying, then being stronger than you are now would arguably be equal in benefit to being more technically proficient    . The reality is one where if you ride a lot and exercise equally, then you’ll be on a much faster track to riding full gas while feeling like you’re only at half throttle.

As long as you’re working from the same base strength, your track to improvement will take a lot longer. 

 

 

Just for fun, I gave up conditioning for a few years to see how that would affect my winter activities.

Was able to up my game significantly, without injury or detriment. (Overall duration of activity was affected a little, but not performance).

In the absence of what most consider 'fitness', one has to rapidly figure out which movements are essential, and which are wasteful. Carving technique out of the brambles, so to speak.

Fitness has a way of permitting excess, until that excess becomes normal.

 

FYI, I don't recommend this experiment be undertaken randomly, or without focus.

[Corey]

Why not fitness AND technique?  People that get paid to do sports certainly recognize the need for both.  

[billyt.]

You have to listen.  Sometimes the ocean says don't come in.  Sometimes the mountain says your day is over.  Sometimes, more often than not, my body says wait till tomorrow.

[Beckmann AG]

51 minutes ago, Corey said:

Why not fitness AND technique?  People that get paid to do sports certainly recognize the need for both. 

Obviously. Wasn't suggesting otherwise, merely offering a counterpoint.

While technique and fitness are somewhat co-dependent, it's usually better, from a learning standpoint, to put 'technique' before power. 

[st_lupo]

13 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said:

Obviously. Wasn't suggesting otherwise, merely offering a counterpoint.

While technique and fitness are somewhat co-dependent, it's usually better, from a learning standpoint, to put 'technique' before power. 

Ossu sensei!  Arigato gozaimasu!

[SunSurfer]

@pow4ever I am starting to think that Trent & Riceball are just colourblind and think their jackets and trousers match.

[Corey]

2 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

Obviously. Wasn't suggesting otherwise, merely offering a counterpoint.

While technique and fitness are somewhat co-dependent, it's usually better, from a learning standpoint, to put 'technique' before power. 

Well said.  Thanks for clarifying!  

[Rob Stevens]

When I was younger, biking was my only other sport.

While you can pretty much ride all year here, if I only biked I’d be too sore to ride snowboards. 

Now, my biking in the off season might be once a week. If I’m snowboarding my best though, I’m doing 2 to 3 hours of cardio by yoga and plyo in that same week. 

That seems to be a good balance between how strong I think I need to be for the riding I am capable of and like to do.

My job can be stationary and hunched, so if I don’t, my wheels will fall off much sooner in the day. If I’m really out of er, I have been known to fold many times over in 1 run.  

Edited January 18, 2019 by Rob Stevens

[SunSurfer]

Fitness also leads to endurance/stamina, and that means precise technique can be maintained for longer.

Pity the unfit beginner/learner making large, forceful, inefficient movements for little result except frequent falls. A short exhausting and frustrating day is the result. 

[Beckmann AG]

14 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

Pity the unfit beginner/learner making large, forceful, inefficient movements for little result except frequent falls. A short exhausting and frustrating day is the result. 

So I had this beginner session a few years back. Had never been on a board, but had obviously spent a lot of time in a gym. Problem was, he had an overdeveloped capacity to clench and hold, to the extent he nearly caught himself on fire. 

Every slip of the foot, teeter or totter led to overdriven muscle contraction.

Meanwhile, plenty of non-athletic 'normal' types over the years who managed to work their way through the morning without incident, to continue on their own in the afternoon.

Go figure.

[daveo]

10 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said:

So I had this beginner session a few years back. Had never been on a board, but had obviously spent a lot of time in a gym. Problem was, he had an overdeveloped capacity to clench and hold, to the extent he nearly caught himself on fire. 

Every slip of the foot, teeter or totter led to overdriven muscle contraction.

Meanwhile, plenty of non-athletic 'normal' types over the years who managed to work their way through the morning without incident, to continue on their own in the afternoon.

Go figure.

This is literally me.

Just started to relax a little more now by playing table tennis. 

[pow4ever]

I agree 100%.  Technique trump fitness for carving.

Might be over sharing: Freshman Summer Job: Alaska Fishing.  Always active but I eat like a dump truck.

I am that guy; lift in college for the "wrong' reason(aesthetic).  You describe my first time experience on snowboard to a T.  I was so stiff/uncoordinated and just had the most miserable time.  I am also stubborn so I just took pounding after pounding(lesson is your friend take you to the top of the mountain and just take off)...  to be young and stupid again... Now I am just dumb lol.
Lifting for lifting sake isn't my cup of tea anymore but to each's own.
Now I go to the gym so I can enjoy: run/swim/bike/skateboard/hike/snowboard/whatever physical activity came my way that I find interesting.
Fitness to me is table stake, like putting away money for raining day.  The more we put away when we are young; the more we get to draw from when we grow less young 

 

[SunSurfer]

The other factor is how much in built position sense & balance you were given by the mixing of your parents gene pool. I watched my 2 nieces on their scooters at a skatepark over Christmas. The 6 yr old hesitant and tense. The 4 yr old has it all, confident, relaxed, yet dynamic balancing skills. Now I know who to pass my boards on to when I eventually get too old/die. Actually, you'll have to prise my Coiler from my cold, dead hands.

[bigwavedave]

Breath in coming out of a turn, and exhale through the next turn.

Weight and unweight--drop your weight going into the turn (like a vertical spring bending at ankles, knees and waist) decambering the board, straighten (unweight) towards the end of the turn as the board pushes back (decambering) and drop your weight into the next. Don't forget to breathe.

Try to find a rhythm that matches your board, the conditions and the hill.

Keep shoulders and hips facing same direction as feet and imagine maintaining even pressure on both heels (or toes), depending. 

 

[Kmf]

Newbie alert...

I’ve wondered if there’s a difference between rotational and angulation styles as far as relaxation is concerned. I don’t necessarily mean Swoard EC, just more of the Swiss rotational vs Bomber style.

Hopefully, somebody has input ( hint, hint @Beckmann AG )

[daveo]

30 minutes ago, Kmf said:

Newbie alert...

I’ve wondered if there’s a difference between rotational and angulation styles as far as relaxation is concerned. I don’t necessarily mean Swoard EC, just more of the Swiss rotational vs Bomber style.

Hopefully, somebody has input ( hint, hint @Beckmann AG )

Hmm I wonder if using a plate is good for EC 

[pokkis]

I know few who does it, one with 196 F2.

[pow4ever]

1 hour ago, Kmf said:

.I’ve wondered if there’s a difference between rotational and angulation styles as far as relaxation is concerned. I don’t necessarily mean Swoard EC, just more of the Swiss rotational vs Bomber style.

My humble 2 cents.
The goal is to get the board high on it's edge and to bend/decamber it.
We can do that by tipping the board via norm but when it get steep angulation and rotation comes into play.
Bomber style focus more on angulation and rotation is more of a by product/secondary function.
Pure Boarding/EC style focus more on rotation and angulation is the by product/secondary.

To/for me:  rotation(side to side) seems more relax since it's more progressive/easier to modulated.  The up(unweighting)/down(weighting) motion is harder for me to be "smooth".

As @SunSurfer and @bigwavedave  and many pointed it out:  Balance/Rhythm/Timing/Anticipate/Dynamic are keys to effortless/relax carving.

To me:  Finding what works for you; combine all different styles and make it your own is the fun part.
What I am doing is not the most efficient, nor elegant nor versatile but the most survivable for me.
Distill/discover what work and remove what doesn't work is what I am trying.

Progress is slow since I don't have much snow time and most of the time it's
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blind_men_and_an_elephant

IMHO:  Once we get to certain level; it's become less black/white. 
Things become less absolute.  Thous must use "this" to do "that"; Where is the fun is we all look alike robot synchronizing carving down the slope?
Well it's still fun but less fun for me.  Snowboard was the rebel sports; embrace it. 

[pow4ever]

19 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

The other factor is how much in built position sense & balance you were given by the mixing of your parents gene pool. I watched my 2 nieces on their scooters at a skatepark over Christmas. The 6 yr old hesitant and tense. The 4 yr old has it all, confident, relaxed, yet dynamic balancing skills. Now I know who to pass my boards on to when I eventually get too old/die. Actually, you'll have to prise my Coiler from my cold, dead hands.

Interesting to see the pseudo science/stereo type of birth order at play
I know it's all in jest but may the thoughts of morbid macabre fleet from your mind.
Hmm.... there are bench made of ski/snowboard I wonder if there is a market for coffin using old snowboard lol.

 

[daveo]

1 hour ago, pokkis said:

I know few who does it, one with 196 F2.

Which plate? 

[pokkis]

Dont recall, Italian made, stiff one.

[Beckmann AG]

11 hours ago, Kmf said:

I’ve wondered if there’s a difference between rotational and angulation styles as far as relaxation is concerned. I don’t necessarily mean Swoard EC, just more of the Swiss rotational vs Bomber style.

Would probably depend a lot on how each technique was employed. If you want to do a rough calc on exertion in general, consider that limbs moving evenly through a consistent range of motion will generally tire less than those same limbs moving, then holding, then releasing through a smaller range.

Consider as well that if one graphs the path of the COM with regard to the surface as the rider moves from one arc to the next, the least displacement on the 'vertical' will probably reflect the lesser exertion. I.e., If you squat in the second half of the turn, then extend to up-unweight at the turn connection, odds are you're doing more work than another rider that extends through the greater part of the turn, in order to better absorb the 'virtual bump' at the turn connection.

Rotation being a secondary consideration.

[Chouinard]

23 minutes ago, Beckmann AG said:

extends through the greater part of the turn,

Are your referring to a “push-pull” motion?

[Beckmann AG]

57 minutes ago, Chouinard said:

Are your referring to a “push-pull” motion?

Or flexion- extension. He wasn't really asking about EC, and I didn't want to initiate an international trademark incident.

[Kmf]

Exactly, I’m referring to the euro carving style. Flexion/extension has been around for quite some time.

Pow4ever started the thread by asking about if there’s a more relaxing way of carving. The reason for my curiosity is that I met an Austrian carver at Hunter, NY that has to be in his 70’s. His carving was very graceful, fluid and seemingly (key word) effortless. I chatted a bit and did a couple of runs with him, his style was pure rotational/euro style. We did a steep run together, I followed  his style and for me it was quite a bit easier to carve a slope which I’ve had trouble with in the past.

I realize the bomber/euro styles are two different camps, just looking for peoples thoughts.

thanks