Is "relaxing" carving possible?

[Corey]

3 hours ago, pow4ever said:

I have taste the flow state on rare occasion.  Now I want more of it but it rarely show up when called upon.

Ok, that book is a great guide then!  Well, that and a series of "non-fatal errors" as Mr. Beckmann so aptly put it. 

Imagine you're sitting on the couch, when suddenly the urge to get a cold beverage strikes you.  You get up, navigate around the furniture/architecture, and suddenly you have that cold beverage in hand without much conscious thought.  We are most likely to experience flow in comfortable environments, so reduce distractions on the snow and just ride.  Thinking about the angle of your <whatever> and how that affects <whatever> is an excellent impediment to achieving that mental state.  That's not to say that this analysis is not immensely helpful, but it's the precursor to play - a means to an end if you will.  

3 hours ago, pow4ever said:

This forum got some serious talent; most are just too humble.

You know, I've seen the guy who started this thread riding.  He was absolutely killing it on Slot at Aspen Highlands (a black run).  Rock on, humble brother!  

[pow4ever]

Getting to the next level is going to take some work...
Some goals i set for myself:
I Remembered talking to Norm and he is able to pick up where he left off last season -- got lots of good feedback on this.
Be more effortless/Relax:  I want to be able to ride the trail that challenge me for 7 days straight.  I am at about 7 runs right now then I had to move to something easier. 
Cheat less:  I tend to ride fast/sloppy/slarve when it gets tough.  It might look ok but deep down I know it's not clean carve.

@b0ardski -- I love the analogy of locking lock from the good doctor as well but:

You are too kind @Corey!  You had to say that since I took all your clinic 
Great/Excellent points on focusing on "in the moment".  Only if we can bottle it.  
Got a copy of "The Inner Game Of Tennis".  Look forward to read it!
Hero out West, Zero in East...  Maybe I do need to tune my board lol...

[Kneel]

@pow4ever On Tuesday morning I spent an hour.5 at the Creek on Sugar Slope in purposeful practice just working staying relaxed in The Norm linking 5 heelside and 5 toeside turns together at 100% at slow speeds.  The first half hour was shit and I was lucky if I linked a single pair of turns.  Then I started breathing.  It's amazing the change that occurs in your body when it has sufficient oxygen.  The second half hour is where the real growth happened.  The simple modification of inhaling the carve, exhale on the transition freed my brain up to think ahead to the next series of turns.  Things get even easier when you can visualize the future.  I started hitting 80, 90 then 100%.  The final half hour I could link up to 8 pairs before I ran out of real estate. Probably the best and most fun practice session I've ever had.  

[pow4ever]

Thank you @Kneel for sharing!  I am stoked that you had a great practice session.  There a quite a few mentioned the breathing part.  Finding the tempo using breathing is a great way to keep rhythm.  Will be stealing that practice that.

Not super accurate per se but trending is what I am after -- Garmin Fenix 
Resting heart rate nor VO2Max doesn't really reflect level of fitness.
Despite on paper I am in ok shape but still sucking wind when hard charging. 

[dingbat]

https://vimeo.com/35294853

[powdahbonz]

dingbat lives...bro...do you even snowboard...what's happnin?

[pow4ever]

What's going on Mark?  Are you saying I need one of those Horse mask thingy?
Good to see you posting.  There is talk of rally and you show up  Coincidence I think not.
Hope all is well.

[dingbat]

I just look at my board in the basement and wonder how many runs it would take to wear the rust of the edges. Like the kid and the owl and the Tootsie Pop. Practically just as good as snowboarding.

With any luck I'll be meeting Mellow at Beech this weekend. Gonna be a shitshow. You guys should come down.

Don't look at the horse David, or do look at it. Just listen to the song, or find one that speaks to you and sings your relaxed carving lullaby. I like to feed the board forward through the turn and finish on the tail, let myself slowly float/fall across the top for the transition, lot of hip, just relax and don't think about riding well, just ride.

 

Frequency of Iridium by Drag Pack and Feng Shui by Gnarles Barkley also speak to me. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by dingbat

[b0ardski]

how many licks

3

Edited January 29, 2019 by b0ardski

[st_lupo]

9 hours ago, b0ardski said:

how many licks

3

Except that #3 was alway a crunch!?  Careful with that!

[b0ardski]

 

i actually tested that once, took over 300

[daveo]

On 1/26/2019 at 4:14 AM, Kneel said:

@pow4ever On Tuesday morning I spent an hour.5 at the Creek on Sugar Slope in purposeful practice just working staying relaxed in The Norm linking 5 heelside and 5 toeside turns together at 100% at slow speeds.  The first half hour was shit and I was lucky if I linked a single pair of turns.  Then I started breathing.  It's amazing the change that occurs in your body when it has sufficient oxygen.  The second half hour is where the real growth happened.  The simple modification of inhaling the carve, exhale on the transition freed my brain up to think ahead to the next series of turns.  Things get even easier when you can visualize the future.  I started hitting 80, 90 then 100%.  The final half hour I could link up to 8 pairs before I ran out of real estate. Probably the best and most fun practice session I've ever had.  

I find what happens naturally for me is inhale start of turn, hold at apex and exhale out of turn. I think that's an old habit, though. 

[Kneel]

56 minutes ago, daveo said:

I find what happens naturally for me is inhale start of turn, hold at apex and exhale out of turn. I think that's an old habit, though. 

Probably more along the lines of what I do...now. Or somewhere in between.  But a vast improvement over the old system of holding my breath through the entire length of the carve, a forceful exhalation then violent gasp before I would tighten up for the next turn.  It was a totally dysfunctional system that I tolerated for years.  Now I find if anything seems off, start by paying attention to the breath, then everything else seems to fall in place.  My cerebellum has a better chance of relaying messages when it doesn't have to relay messages through it's neighbor the medulla oblongata which is banging pots and pans to get attention for oxygen.  Dunno if there is any real science to that, but that's how it makes sense to me...

[daveo]

20 minutes ago, Kneel said:

Probably more along the lines of what I do...now. Or somewhere in between.  But a vast improvement over the old system of holding my breath through the entire length of the carve, a forceful exhalation then violent gasp before I would tighten up for the next turn.  It was a totally dysfunctional system that I tolerated for years.  Now I find if anything seems off, start by paying attention to the breath, then everything else seems to fall in place.  My cerebellum has a better chance of relaying messages when it doesn't have to relay messages through it's neighbor the medulla oblongata which is banging pots and pans to get attention for oxygen.  Dunno if there is any real science to that, but that's how it makes sense to me...

I think I'm in the same boat as you. When I did athletics, I was in the habit of massive breath, hold, forcefully exhale. In the gym same thing, massive breath, hold, power clean or squat or snatch or whatever, exhale.

Now I started table tennis again I've realise how important relaxing and breathing is. To get max power in a setting where flow and sustained effort is required. Where you need fullbody motion and can't stiffen up or it doesn't matter how much effort you put in, you just get no power. Not just 30m starts or 3 rep power cleans. I'm going to try to apply these same principles to snowboarding now. 

I feel we must have similar sporting background or something...?

@pauleleven would know this. His cousin is Zhang Jike.  

Edited January 29, 2019 by daveo

[Corey]

I used to hold my breath to deal with the exertion of carving.  Now, I don't give breathing any conscious thought.  

The thought of timing my breathing to external events does not sound relaxing.  

[daveo]

2 minutes ago, Corey said:

I used to hold my breath to deal with the exertion of carving.  Now, I don't give breathing any conscious thought.  

The thought of timing my breathing to external events does not sound relaxing.  

That's because you're a natural and I and maybe @Kneel are..... Not. 

So take your perfect genes and LEAVE. Lol jks. 

Edited January 29, 2019 by daveo

[daveo]

9 minutes ago, Corey said:

I used to hold my breath to deal with the exertion of carving.  Now, I don't give breathing any conscious thought.  

The thought of timing my breathing to external events does not sound relaxing.  

But yeah in all seriousness I want to get to that level. 

[pow4ever]

58 minutes ago, Corey said:

I used to hold my breath to deal with the exertion of carving.  Now, I don't give breathing any conscious thought.   

Cool!  These mile stone/marker/indicator are excellent way for us to measure progress.

David -- Level 5 mouth breather lol...

[Corey]

Haha, I'm naturally dedicated to spend more time than I'm willing to admit on introspection.  Sometimes I don't talk to anyone for the entire day at the hill other than the usual banter with employees.  Not by choice, I don't have any riding friends that are interested in lapping black runs.  Solo chair rides on a non-detachable chair give you a long time to think about the previous and next runs.    

In all seriousness, just set a goal and get out of your own way (mentally) to let yourself try it. 

"I can't do X because I'll fail."

"Ok, let's do it and fail anyway."

"I failed, but not as bad as I thought."

Repeat.  Try to suck a bit less every time.  

[Kneel]

1 hour ago, Corey said:

I used to hold my breath to deal with the exertion of carving.  Now, I don't give breathing any conscious thought.  

The thought of timing my breathing to external events does not sound relaxing.  

It's not not necessarily timing, but the simple act of remembering to breath. For me. But admitting that you used to hold you breath tells me there was at one time conscious awareness of your breathing, whether a precursor or not to your 10,000th hour on the edge, I suspect the breath is more important than we think.  But for me, it certainly clears a path towards deliberate practice...

1 hour ago, daveo said:

That's because you're a natural and I and maybe @Kneel are..... Not. 

So take your perfect genes and LEAVE. Lol jks. 

<--- Definitely NOT 

[SunSurfer]

Secret to a long life: Always breathe in after breathing out.

A deep breath in and holding it is commonly used for power activities involving powerful contraction of the abdominal muscles. The breath in tightens and flattens the dome shaped diaphragm muscle between your chest and belly. Not really a recipe for relaxed carving.

When you are relaxed your body does its' stuff automatically. You don't need to remind your heart to beat, nor, unless your ex-girlfriend is a vengeful water sprite called Ondine, do you need to remind yourself to breathe.

 

[pauleleven]

2 hours ago, daveo said:

 

@pauleleven would know this. His cousin is Zhang Jike.  

Who dat?

[daveo]

1 hour ago, pauleleven said:

Who dat?

Your cousin. The table tennis player. 

1 hour ago, SunSurfer said:

When you are relaxed your body does its' stuff automatically. You don't need to remind your heart to beat, nor, unless your ex-girlfriend is a vengeful water sprite called Ondine, do you need to remind yourself to breathe.

 

Having been involved in power sports for 10 or so years before I become a sedentary morbidly obese slob, I find I frequently need to remind myself to breathe. Hmm, Ondine does suspiciously sound like my ex gf, though. But I blame the years of breathe in, hold, EXPLOSIVE MOVEMENT, breathe out pattern, which I developed through sport.

In saying that I can't imagine being at the apex of a turn and be in the breathe out phase of breathing. I feel I would collapse.

[Corey]

2 hours ago, Kneel said:

It's not not necessarily timing, but the simple act of remembering to breath. For me. But admitting that you used to hold you breath tells me there was at one time conscious awareness of your breathing, whether a precursor or not to your 10,000th hour on the edge, I suspect the breath is more important than we think.  But for me, it certainly clears a path towards deliberate practice...

Don't get me wrong - I'm not saying it won't/doesn't work for you.  Take any and all steps that help you towards your end goal!  

I definitely was bracing like Alan (SunSurfer) mentioned above, because I was really struggling to deal with all the things going on.  This period also had me stopping every few hundred feet as I was utterly exhausted.  Did I relax because I learned to use the board, or did I learn to use the board because I relaxed?  I don't know, probably both.  

I had the same observations in car racing too.  I became aware of my deep rhythmic breathing during one of my best flow moments on a race track.  It didn't affect the mental state or my breathing, but it was like a soundtrack in the background mixed with all the rest of the sensations feeding into my brain.  The thought of that moment (10+ years ago?) brings a smile to my face.    

[Neil Gendzwill]

On 1/25/2019 at 5:14 PM, pow4ever said:

Resting heart rate nor VO2Max doesn't really reflect level of fitness.
Despite on paper I am in ok shape but still sucking wind when hard charging.

When you are charging hard you are causing your quads to work super-hard, and they suck up O2 like nobody’s business. It’s a different kind of fitness than running or cycling or whatever else you are measuring your VO2Max with.