After switching to UPZ, did you increase toe lift on the front foot ?

[Surf Quebec]

I've seen some posts mentioning it but no thread.
After switching to UPZ boots (from HSP or Deeluxe), because of the heel position on the boot, did you increase toe lift on the front foot ?

I'm using F2 bindings, I usually have 2 wedges for toe lift and have tried recently 1 normal lift piece.
I was confortable, my heel side was way faster , almost scary....

Edited January 9, 2018 by Surf Quebec

[crote123]

Always had 3deg on either HSP or UPZ usingTD3/F2.  That fixed a heavy quad burn I was experiencing.

Edited January 9, 2018 by crote123

[pmorita]

Just added Intuition liners to UPZ boots.  Switching from Deeluxe 700s.  I'm feeling way more forward lean with the UPZ/powerwrap lines.  Going to increase the toe lift as much as possible. 

[GeoffV]

@Jack Michaud and I switched to UPZ RC10's last season and had to increase our front lift from 3 t o 6 degrees. In my T700's I was 3 front and 6 rear. I am tempted to try 6 for both front and rear and see how that works for my rear. 

[Jack M]

I went from 3 front and rear to 6 front, 3 rear.  Before I did that I was getting front thigh burnout.

[pokkis]

From Deeluxe flat to UPZ flat

[bigwavedave]

Rode for 1st season in my new UPZ10s with no change to bindings (3°front/6°rear) and really felt like I was riding great. Early in 2nd season I got some pain in my front knee after hitting a small bump and it persisted. I switched to 6° front and 3° rear after reading @Corey's post where he measured the forward ramp in UPZs at 9° and felt way more comfortable and balanced, although I now feel like I have to be more conscious of "stepping on the gas pedal" (front foot) to initiate turns. 

Edited January 9, 2018 by bigwavedave

[ursle]

How bout adding stance distance, a 16” stance requires one height of toe  heel lift, a 22” stance another.

And stride, a 50-55 stride (distance between) is much different than a 60-65 stride.

F2 offers two size lifts, I’m guessing 4 and 6 degrees, on my front a 6 lift and one cant to the outside, on my rear one 4 and one 6 lifts no cant,

and my UPZ are both leaned forward max, stride is 22+”, 60-65 on all boards, well not the 16.1 executor;)

All that matters is being balanced while tipping the board over as far as possible.

Dont watch the rider, watch the board.

 

Edited January 9, 2018 by ursle

[jburk]

Just now, ursle said:

F2 offers two size lifts

I think the two sizes are for the binding sizes (Lg/Sm and Medium) but offer the same degree of lift, the mounting holes are located more towards the center for the medium toe and heel pieces.  

Toggle the size options in this page http://www.yyzcanuck.com/shop/parts/f2-heel-toe-lift-kit/, note how the holes shift between the sizes.  I originally had a large F2 binding this season, had to change over to a medium and found that all the lift and cant pieces were different between the two sizes

[teach]

I've been meaning to try more toe lift in front but haven't gotten around to it. I just measured my UPZs (312 mm shell, UPZ 8.5/9/9.5, M28) and my old Deeluxe Indys (M28) and actually the Indys have slightly more ramp, 9.5 degrees versus about 9 degrees. So that explains why I never felt a dramatic front quad burn or anything coming from the Indys.

I think the smaller sizes of both boots have more ramp angle  due to Intec heel compatibility, and that it's a bigger effect with UPZ due to the recessed heel.

UPZs have a thicker sole under the ball of the foot, so they're higher overall than Deeluxe. At size 28 this more than compensates for the inset heel.

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

So, many years ago, I addressed this by way of; Carpet Riding in front of a full length mirror. From a head-on, into-a-mirror perspective, you can SEE which leg actuates against the boot, boot against which binding, binding against the board's edge/flex/camber, in a full cycle of actuation (as long as you DO NOT fall thru the glass-topped bench-table that's in front of the couch! Yeah, Don't!!). But the ramp angles of boots do, indeed vary.  When I talked with Warren Witherall, about a 1/4 century ago, he concluded that a 'snowboard alignment' calc. sheet couldn't be done, it had Too Many Variables! Which, is likely why I'm still here. I figured a smidge of it out.

 

Edited January 11, 2018 by Eric Brammer aka PSR

[ursle]

On 1/9/2018 at 12:01 PM, jburk said:

I think the two sizes are for the binding sizes (Lg/Sm and Medium) but offer the same degree of lift, the mounting holes are located more towards the center for the medium toe and heel pieces.  

Toggle the size options in this page http://www.yyzcanuck.com/shop/parts/f2-heel-toe-lift-kit/, note how the holes shift between the sizes.  I originally had a large F2 binding this season, had to change over to a medium and found that all the lift and cant pieces were different between the two sizes

Good input, so I grabbed the digital caliper, and on the board in hand all the blocks are 16.2mm, .63”, I run two In back and one in front, bought several of the replacement’s from YYZ, so thanks for making me stand corrected.

i love the abilility to fine tune the stance.

[ursle]

11 hours ago, Eric Brammer aka PSR said:

So, many years ago, I addressed this by way of; Carpet Riding in front of a full length mirror. From a head-on, into-a-mirror perspective, you can SEE which leg actuates against the boot, boot against which binding, binding against the board's edge/flex/camber, in a full cycle of actuation (as long as you DO NOT fall thru the glass-topped bench-table that's in front of the couch! Yeah, Don't!!). But the ramp angles of boots do, indeed vary.  When I talked with Warren Witherall, about a 1/4 century ago, he concluded that a 'snowboard alignment' calc. sheet couldn't be done, it had Too Many Variables! Which, is likely why I'm still here. I figured a smidge of it out.

 

Warren Witherall, Yes, my wife was taught by a disciple of his, in ‘78 she was the Rockey Mt. woman’s downhill champion, by a large margin, thanks Warren.

We used to race Thursday afternoons at Ascutney, Bobby Cocherin was always there, anyway, out of 250 people, I always came in 251, one day she gave me an exercise, standing, pick up the left ski, push the right knee as close to the ground as possible, ride it. Then switch legs, that night she handed me Warrens book “How the racers ski”, the next race at Ascutney I broke the top 25. Last time I skied I was at Okemo, John Neil (not a sandbagger) was the pacesetter, made three runs, 6 5 4 were my handicaps, thanks Waren, and Rest In Peace.

 

The next day a horse I was mounting bucked, dislocated my right hip, 20 years ago, my first thought was “I’m now an alpine snowboarder”, got a 7 nastar off pat at Okemo.

Whats your nastar?

[colintkemp]

I rode HSP at 3 front, 3 back.  Now, this season on UPZ, I'm 3 front, 6 back.  I too am tempted to try 6, 6.  But I'm still getting used to the new boots, so thinking i want to stick 3, 6 just so I'm not changing too much at once. 

 

[Jack M]

7 hours ago, colintkemp said:

I rode HSP at 3 front, 3 back.  Now, this season on UPZ, I'm 3 front, 6 back.

Why would you do that when the UPZ heel is so much higher?

7 hours ago, colintkemp said:

I too am tempted to try 6, 6.  But I'm still getting used to the new boots, so thinking i want to stick 3, 6 just so I'm not changing too much at once. 

But you already did change two things at once, your boots and your cants.  May as well go to 6 front 3 back now.  I think you'll like it.

[billyt.]

It seems like everyone gets their own setup dialed in on whichever boot that they have.  Then for some reason, they switch boot brands and have to start all over again?  Are the UPZ that much better than the Deeluxe?  Do the performance benefits justify having to get dialed back into a new set-up?  Been with Raichle/Deeluxe for a long time, and I have contemplated a new boot purchase for the last couple of seasons.  Current boots, Deeluxe LeMans, have not broken yet and other than lean walk mechanism, they continue to provide good flex, comfort and support.  I will up grade to a new liner soon and  I wanted to get BTS this season as well.  Am I still swimming in the kiddy pool without UPZ?

[Carvin' Marvin]

17 minutes ago, billyt. said:

It seems like everyone gets their own setup dialed in on whichever boot that they have.  Then for some reason, they switch boot brands and have to start all over again?  Are the UPZ that much better than the Deeluxe?  Do the performance benefits justify having to get dialed back into a new set-up?  Been with Raichle/Deeluxe for a long time, and I have contemplated a new boot purchase for the last couple of seasons.  Current boots, Deeluxe LeMans, have not broken yet and other than lean walk mechanism, they continue to provide good flex, comfort and support.  I will up grade to a new liner soon and  I wanted to get BTS this season as well.  Am I still swimming in the kiddy pool without UPZ?

Check my review I just wrote in the Hardboots section. In short, if you have your deeluxes dialed in and they fit/perform well then I would not change brands. I personally preferred the way my track 700s rode and it took me about 10-15 days to get the upzs dialed (I also have a tinkering problem).  I changed due to fit issues.

To answer the main thread question-I use f2 intec titanium and I had to change lifts on front and back. I went from the two cants stacked together to the big f2 lift up front. In the rear I had the big f2 lift AND the two stacked cants and when I switched I just took out the stacked cants. I also have some canting but I did not have to change that.

 

[billyt.]

From watching some videos,  some riders like to be high up on their bindings for performance?  Or is it ease/quickness for toe to heel for racing.  Some seem extreme?  Thanks for your response.

[Beckmann AG]

4 hours ago, billyt. said:

From watching some videos,  some riders like to be high up on their bindings for performance?  Or is it ease/quickness for toe to heel for racing.  Some seem extreme?  Thanks for your response.

Can you provide a link to a video?  

'Risers' have the effect of making a wider board seem narrower. But that doesn't necessarily make the toe/heel action quicker. Can also magnify problems exiting turns if the rider is 'in the wrong place'.

If the LaMaze boot fits, and it's not limiting your performance, then don't go changing for no good reason. If, on the other hand, you can identify issues with your present boots that the UPZ is purported to fix, that's a different story.

The big issue with the DeeLuxe is the 'missile silo' ankle pocket. The UPZ suffers from a misguided sole design, and excessive bootboard angle.

[billyt.]

Beckman,  I am glad that you responded and that I was able to understan it!

[FrankNBeans]

I am at the point of tinkering with my new(this year) UPZ to try to get them to perform like my T700. They fit my feet/ankles/calve way better than the 700(with aftermarket liners); now to get them feel as solid on the snow. UPZ fit with T 700 performance would be ideal.

[Beckmann AG]

49 minutes ago, billyt. said:

Beckman,  I am glad that you responded and that I was able to understan it!

 Broke a rotor on the cipher encoder last night. 

Могут перейти на кириллическую клавиатуру, ожидая замены деталей.

Edited January 13, 2018 by Beckmann AG

[SunSurfer]

BillyT,

Was this the kind of thing you meant? This is Jasey Jay Anderson using serious rear heel lift, on top of seprate shock absorbers, for a very forward flexed rear knee. Note also the spring system setting differential at this point midway between turns.
Screen grab from 
https://youtu.be/lntXm_t8JtI

 

Edited April 28, 2018 by SunSurfer
replace lost photo link

[billyt.]

Wow that is a high heel!  I am sure he knows what works best for him and for what he is riding.  That last slow motion video that you posted with the Allflex plate team, had a rider that had blocks under his boots, UPZ, which made it look very high.  Must put some real pressure on the boards inserts, no?

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

So, when you see THIS, JJA is lettting the REAR LEG Propel Him (at the waist/torso) FORWARDS, into the Turn's Transition Zone! I've been alluding to this (and, as such, been NOT a Fan of front-toe-lift, nor Excessive canting, but, rather, the idea of Fore-Aft pressure control!) for 25 Yrs. It all comes down to being either AHEAD of the Board, or, being Behind and Catching-up-to the Board! Which is Faster?! I know! Being Late, LOSES!

 

Edited January 16, 2018 by Eric Brammer aka PSR