MNSurfer Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 During this last season, I have noticed fewer and fewer people wearing helmets. Granted, I've only been to MN/WI and Summit County. However at places like Breck, my wife and I we shocked at the number of people we saw with just beanies (or less) on their melon. We would start counting, and by at 100 be 10am. A few years ago, seeing someone without a helmet would have raised a flag. I would estimate that some 1/5 of folks were without. Compare that to MN, where that rate is more like 1 in 50. What is going on (in Colorado?)? After a week or two of observing this, I was riding-up with Ski Patrol. She was saying that this year, they brought more people off the mountain for concussions, than at any time she could remember. This got me thinking; Can't helmets be mandated by the resort? And if so, would a resort be worried that some people won't ski/ride there, if helmets were required? Which makes me ask, Why would you want those people at your resort? My points-of-reference are few. Has anyone else noticed this startling up-tick? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Mandate helmets? I wear mine, but it is the individuals choice. Let me reverse the question: How does someone not wearing a helmet harm someone else? The only one to be harmed is the individual who chooses not to buy one. Choice is part of a free society, and infringement upon choice, especially where as it harms no one else, becomes a slippery slope. Now, lets take this to the next logical step: My son, who races, wears back protection. It has, on many occasion, saved him from injury when someone crashed into him. Should we mandate that as well? How about SafeSport? For anyone to even be near the competitors with USASA events, SafeSport training is required. Should all individuals who are over 18 be required to get this training for a lift pass? What about a background checks as well? Without a background check, and not having the absolute certainty the individual is not a wanted criminal, one might ask, "Why would you want those people at your resort?" 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyride Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Just for informational sake and not arguments sake, this is what it costs for a TBI, which in turn costs us in Insurance Premiums. Economic Costs of TBI The CDC estimates that the direct medical costs of TBI and the indirect costs, such as lost productivity, total $76.5 billion during a typical year. The cost of fatal TBIs and TBIs requiring a hospital stay account for 90 percent of the medical costs for TBI. About 5 million Americans are living with a TBI-related disability. A person with a severe TBI may require expensive long-term medical treatment, therapy and assistive care. A TBI victim’s ability to earn a living is usually greatly diminished, and many TBI victims are unable to ever work again. According to the Family Caregiver Alliance and the Brain Injury Association of America (BIAA): The lifetime costs for someone who survives a severe TBI can reach at least $4 million. Rehabilitation is expensive. One study shows that costs for medical and long-term care for TBI survivors who undergo rehabilitation average $196,460, compared to $17,893 for those who do not require rehabilitation. Many pay much more. The average daily cost for TBI rehabilitation in a hospital is $8,000. Residential rehab centers charge TBI patients between $850 and $2,500 per day. Even non-residential rehabilitation services can reach as high as $1,000 per day. Medical costs average more than $450,000 for patients who die from TBI. Many TBI survivors need help returning to work. One study showed that supported employment for TBI survivors costs an average of $10,000 for the first year. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNSurfer Posted March 17, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Okay, so maybe 'mandate' isn't the right way to approach this phenomenon/backwards-progression-in-safety. I get that requiring guests to wear a potential life-saving device is a slippery slope, but wouldn't it be in the resorts' best interest to reduce injuries? My main question resides in that after years of helmet usership, why does this suddenly feel like people are opting-out? Any yes, where does it all end. Nobody wants to see a mountain full of body armor. It just seems off that something that is simple to use, comfortable, keeps your head warm, and could save your life, would be a no-brainer. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Not being argumentative here... but All sports contribute to this, not specifically not wearing helmets. One could argue against all forms of auto usage with the above statistics as well. How many individuals suffer a concussive force from an auto accident? Why not outlaw vehicles? It all amounts to personal choice. How much of the above was covered by the persons insurance. The beauty of the states is, if you don't like the laws or mandates, you can move to a state that allows your choices. This is a founding part of what the US was founded upon, and what makes it unique in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rst Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) Dec, Jan, and probably Feb: people w/out helmets are very rare exceptions End of Feb and March [spring break and vacation times] it's hoards without helmets sunglasses + beanie what else do you need to enjoy a vacation) it looks like folks that spend a week a year on slopes do not consider wearing a helmet so seriously as ones who ski/ride a lot PS I usually avoid riding Christmas-NY week so it's probably the same mess, or maybe not since it's much colder so helmet is a better option ))) Edited March 17, 2021 by rst Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 3 hours ago, TVR said: The beauty of the states is, if you don't like the laws or mandates, you can move to a state that allows your choices. This is a founding part of what the US was founded upon, and what makes it unique in the world. A stirring argument. If I try really hard I can almost picture Patrick Henry making this exact same argument against ski helmet mandates at the Continental Congress..."my brothers, we must cast off the shackles of our helmeted oppressors and stand up for our God-given right to ski wherever we wish, with God's own sweet breezes blowing through our unprotected hair! And I also think $18 for a bowl of chili is f***ing usurious and we should be allowed to bring our own food." Let's not confuse states with private businesses. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MountainSlope Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 2 hours ago, MNSurfer said: During this last season, I have noticed fewer and fewer people wearing helmets. Just out of curiosity... were they masks? I am wondering because a lot of people have been posting pictures of people riding bikes with no helmet, but wearing a medical mask. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 (edited) 2 hours ago, rst said: Dec, Jan, and probably Feb: people w/out helmets are very rare exceptions End of Feb and March [spring break and vacation times] it's hoards without helmets sunglasses + beanie what else do you need to enjoy a vacation) it looks like folks that spend a week a year on slopes do not consider wearing a helmet so seriously as ones who ski/ride a lot Ditto! I was noticing just today that (with warmer temps up here on the NH ice coast) I'm seeing more beanies and less helmets.... To each his own. I wouldn't dare carve/ride without my lid. I wouldn't get on my road bike without my helmet............but as NH is the Live Free Or Die state and does not require motorcycle helmets (or seatbelts!) I like riding my motorcycle sans helmet. Prayers accepted! Edited March 17, 2021 by barryj Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 People have stopped wearing helmets?? I feel like I might see one or two people in a day not wearing helmets. Usually they are the “jeans+starter-jacket” type that just doesn’t have the right gear or know what works on mountain yet. I figure that’s their right either way, they aren’t putting me in any danger by not taking care of themselves (though I hope they don’t have children, or other dependents). I stopped snowboarding for awhile a little while after I got out of college, and then started back up a few years later. Helmets happened in the intervening years. So when I started back up I was like “what the hell is it with everyone wearing helmets now”, and I did think they looked more than a little silly. I think I was convinced to give them ago by a forum member on here who pointed out that they are better than hats because they are warmer, and they don’t collect snow when you eat it. — oh yeah: and they protect their brain. Now I think people look kind of silly without them. Being smart will always be fashionable. I must never have really rung my bell prior to the advent of helmets; but I have since—and was very grateful to have something protecting what little brains I have left. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
teach Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 My girlfriend and I have been noticing this the past two or three seasons. Pretty stark, not just here (Philly/NYC) but also at Okemo last year. Maybe down to a bare majority wearing helmets. Also, among the helmeted, the unbuckled helmet is big again. I saw a skier rocking this look crash trying to avoid going off edge of the run (headed straight for a boulder) -- his helmet flew off at first impact as he cartwheeled toward the boulder. I collected his skis and poles and checked on him. He was OK and asked about his helmet. I told him it continued without him -- it was at the bottom of the run. I hope I wasn't too subtle. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 7 minutes ago, teach said: Also, among the helmeted, the unbuckled helmet is big again. When I lived in NYC a huge majority of the food-delivery dudes on bikes would clip their helmets to their handlebars, and keep them there all day. Like they’d be biking around in NYC traffic, with their helmet dangling off of their handlebars and and not their heads. Never understood that at all, it’s like they thought they were some kind of dashboard ornament for bikes? People are fascinating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Seems like in our neck of the woods helmets are still the norm though if it's a trend it will catch up. The real question is whether less people are wearing helmets or are you just noticing them more? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 17, 2021 Report Share Posted March 17, 2021 Look at popular snowboarding media - no helmets. That's where it starts. I love my helmet. Adjustable venting so it's cool on hot days, warm on cold days, and I can change it for the ride up vs. down. Oh, and it will likely reduce the severity of an injury. Freaking awesome! 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 3 hours ago, queequeg said: When I lived in NYC a huge majority of the food-delivery dudes on bikes would clip their helmets to their handlebars, and keep them there all day. The difference between bike helmets and snowboard helmets is that bike helmets can be uncomfortable whereas I find my snowboard helmet at least as and sometimes more comfortable than a toque. I confess if it’s a hot day I will often take the risk and leave the bike helmet home. I don’t get hauling it along unworn unless there’s some regulation they are skirting around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slopestar Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) Easy, it’s the season of the gaper and even worse... gapers bringing their gaper friends over spring break. I’m all for sharing the stoke but man it’s dangerous out there Edited March 18, 2021 by slopestar 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 1 hour ago, Neil Gendzwill said: The difference between bike helmets and snowboard helmets is that bike helmets can be uncomfortable whereas I find my snowboard helmet at least as and sometimes more comfortable than a toque. I confess if it’s a hot day I will often take the risk and leave the bike helmet home. I don’t get hauling it along unworn unless there’s some regulation they are skirting around. I almost never wear a bike helmet nowadays (though I was in the habit of wearing one when I was biking in traffic everyday in NYC). I personally don’t find them uncomfortable at all. I just don’t see the point of bringing one if you’re not going to wear it. Technically you are required to wear one, but not once in my ten years riding one did I see a cop hassle somebody for abstaining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 (edited) The USA is "unique in the world." "Only in America!" A phrase used with pride in the USA. The rest of the world use it, shrug and give a wry smile. Edited March 18, 2021 by SunSurfer 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 2 hours ago, queequeg said: Technically you are required to wear one, but not once in my ten years riding one did I see a cop hassle somebody for abstaining. There’s no law where I live but the vast majority of people wear them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MNSurfer Posted March 18, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 10 hours ago, Corey said: Look at popular snowboarding media - no helmets. That's where it starts. Well that makes some sense. I'm admittedly oblivious to any sort of ski/snowboard media. My observation didn't only pertain to 'boarders. I can't give a ratio, but I'd guess that skiers easily made-up half of the numbers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt. Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 Corey nailed it! If it is in/on media that will influence people. Wouldn’t want to ride without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 I don't see the incompatibility with ski-area helmet mandates and freedom? If you want to race FIS events, you gotta wear a helmet. You wanna shoot your 1911 at the local indoor shooting range: I bet they make you wear ear and eye protection. If you wanna go parachuting, they're going to make you wear a parachute. If a ski resort wants to mandate that their patrons wear helmets, they are well within their rights, otherwise they are exposing themselves to some nubbin that gets a head injury and sues the ski area for negligence. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 So seriously, lets take this to the next logical step: What should we mandate as well? Why stop at just helmets? There are other aspects we must cover if we want to be safe. Let's mandate back protection, as it protects the rider. Let's mandate DOT specs on the helmets, as they are safer. Let's mandate SafeSport training and background checks, as we don't know who is buying a ticket. Let's mandate insurance, so injuries and costs are covered. Let's mandate training classes with certification for each uphill vehicle, so we don't have people forgetting the chair bar or are certified to use the T-Bar / J-Bar. Safety first after all.... We should mandate all of the above, and although it will decimate the sport, and lift tickets will end up costing $300 a day, it is for everyone's safety and one would have to ask about someone who objects, "Why would you want those people at your resort?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 How about let’s not draw arguments out to ridiculous extremes? How about lets allow nuance and common sense as well as actual reflection win over blind faith in dogma? By denying a private ski area the ability to impose helmet restrictions aren’t you already on that (bad) slippery slope? No one is stopping anybody from hiking out into the back country, smoking a bowl and riding down without wearing whatever they feel is overly restrictive. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted March 18, 2021 Report Share Posted March 18, 2021 10 minutes ago, TVR said: So seriously, lets take this to the next logical step: Those are not logical steps... Nor are they serious. How can I and the society we share protect ourselves from the costs and after affects of TBIs due to the lack of wearing a helmet at a resort? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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