caspercarver Posted November 24, 2013 Report Share Posted November 24, 2013 Jeff,Personally, I am not a fan of micro fracture chondroplasty(the procedure you are describing). We used to do a ton of this surgery 15-20 years ago, but it has become less popular in recent years because of highly variable results. The theory is that puncturing the sub chondral bone will stimulate growth of new cartilage. Unfortunately, it is not normal cartilage, and sometimes it does not regrow at all. Recent study in Texas comparing arthroscopic debridement surgery for arthritis versus sham surgery showed the patients with the sham surgery had better results overall. This was a slightly different age group than you, and more extensive arthritis, but demonstrates that we orthopedists are not always as effective as we would like to think we are at treating arthritic joints with arthroscopic surgery. If you are progressively getting worse, then I guess you could consider this, but if you are improving with your conservative exercise program, I would keep up with that instead. Dr. S Thanks DrSchwartz, i will stick to the exercises for now :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Had my surgery on the 21st, and just took the wrap off my leg and took my 1st shower in 4 days. Don't take the little things for granted! Gimping around with a cane for now. Go to my post-op on Dec. 2, will have a better idea after that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Good luck with the post op. My house is full of steps and different levels never realized how useless I was and how many inclines there were around our farm till I had to navigate it with crutches. Wait till you start to navigate ice and snow ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 :biggthumpGood luck with the post op. My house is full of steps and different levels never realized how useless I was and how many inclines there were around our farm till I had to navigate it with crutches. Wait till you start to navigate ice and snow ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kipstar Posted November 25, 2013 Report Share Posted November 25, 2013 Dear dr S and Sunsurfer (also a doc) Just want to say a big thanks for taking the time to translate what u do into language we can follow. Many ppl would prefer not to share the inof that earns them a living outside of work. In this case its been a big help to many of us and that's why this thread is getting so long :-) not just from some of us getting hurt! :-) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted December 31, 2013 Report Share Posted December 31, 2013 Trying to make it this year without getting hit in the back... last year first day..skier hit my back I got broken blood vessles in my left eye..did know it till my girl screamed when I took my goggles off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OhD Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Something bad happened to me on Dec 31, 2013, about 1:30. I recall deciding to ride behind three friends (Eric, Brittany and Josh, all on skis) on a green run (Tree Hugger) off the Basin chair in the new expansion area at White Pass. I wanted to stay behind them and work on my heelside turns without having to worry about getting whacked by a friend (or holding them back - fast skiers all). The run is easy, wide and gladed with clusters of Alpine Fir. We were riding there because the upper part of the basin was blanketed with thick freezing fog and practically un-navigable at any speed. Tree Hugger was well groomed, considering that the snowpack is extremely low so far, there had been only a little snow for a couple of weeks, and everything had been machined ice or really firm refrozen hardpack two days earlier. It had rained hard the night of the 30th, then snowed perhaps three inches on top of the compromised boilerplate, but I had been edging pretty well and having a good day of it to that point. Eric, Brittany and I had stopped for a snack and coffee a little earlier and I wasn't feeling at all fatigued. Somewhere perhaps a third of the way down the run I woke up on my back in the snow and tried to get up. After some indeterminate time I tried again and succeeded, and apparently rode on down to meet them at the Basin lift, where they were at the head of a negligible line. I pulled up and unclipped my back foot from my newly-converted-to-standard TD3. Then I had a pleasant dream about riding somewhere else during the slow ride up the fixed quad, not too surprising as I'd been up 'til midnight effecting a repair to the sprinkler system at our ski club lodge, then risen at 05:45 to have breakfast ready at 07:00. I got off the chair and skated straight out to the flat, stopped to clip in, noting an odd sensation of being adrift in time and a little vague as to where exactly I was. I turned and spotted my friends standing down at the trail map below the top of the lift, rode one-footed down to join them, and mentioned to Eric that I really didn't remember the last run or chair ride and was having a kind of peculiar sensation of disorientation. Eric asked me if I remembered trying to load on the chair with them, which I did not. He noted that they had waited a good five mnutes for me at the bottom of the lift, that I had failed to get all the way into the loading lane and had been bumped off by the armrest of the chair, and that I had finally loaded eight chairs behind the three of them. Stu, an off-duty patroller buddy of ours happened by, and Eric or Brittany hailed him to come over and check me out. Stu checked out my pupillary response, which was OK, and interrogated me about what I remembered and was feeling, while Brittany (I think) went to the lift chack to call patrol dispatch. A few minutes later I took off my board, laid down in a sled and got tucked in for a remarkably quick trip down to the clinic in the main lodge. During and after examination by three clinicians and then the doc on call, with a coherent chronology and details furnished by Eric, Brittany and Josh, it became fairly clear to me (and probably considerably clearer to everyone else in the room) that I had wrecked unseen by anyone and taken a good five minutes to get up and catch up (on a 2- 3 minute run). I had seemed kind of drifty and absent in the lift line, then failed to move into position quickly enough to load and got knocked aside, but not with any apparent head impacts. They had waited at the top for me to get there and unload, then another few minutes while I chatted with someone who approached me to ask about my equipment ( I hope I made a good impression on behalf of the sport - I have no memory of that time). The brief conversation I recalled between meeting up with tthem and taking the decision to sled me down took at least fifteen minutes as I apparently was really sloooow responding to any verbal cues, although I felt and sounded fairly lucid and stood comfortably the whole time. After an hour of observation in the clinic I was released with instructions to not sleep more than a few minutes at a time and to remain supervised until I could see an ER or a neurologist and get a CAT scan to check for any internal bleeding or deterioration of my condition. Fortunately, I was able to reach my wife who was staying home to tend her horse (another story), and she and a friend could drive the two hours up top the Pass and take me and my car home. We all repaired to the club lodge to wait, and had dinner with Karen and Mary when they arrived, then Karen drove me back to the Tri-Cities and the local ER for an evaluation and CAT scan. I was feeling a little headachy, short of sleep, anxious and buzzed on coffee, but otherwise pretty well by then, but almost too self-aware to just feel normal and act naturally. Nothing I have ever done legally has engendered so much doubt as to whether or not I felt normal - I wasn't at all certain how I really felt. Fortunately, I looked normal to the specialist who examined me, presenting me with verbal puzzles and tests, coordination tests and having a nice chat about our skiing careers (he had, as a teenager, skied - with a broken and torn shoulder - away from a 60mph collision with a spectator who had trespassed onto the downhill course just below a roller as he sailed off it.). All the while he was making a number of careful observations that assured him that I had, in fact, sufferred only a mild concussion and was probably not in any danger. The senior neurologist on duty (who never saw me, unless he was watching on video) recommended a CAT scan anyway, based on the span of time for which my memory was impaired and my age (61), so I got my brain nuked with a year's worth of ionizing radiation in about two minutes. (Didn't feel a thing, so don't you Coloradans bother trying to get CAT scanners deregulated.) The good news was that there was no sign of bleeding or any other trauma inside the peanut gallery. The interesting news was that the back of my skull is abnormally thin, so the helmet I was wearing probably kept my remaining brains inside where they belong. Thank you Giro... and enjoy your retirement! I'm advised to not whack my head again anytime soon (4 weeks or so...). In the couple of days since, I have done a couple of 6-8 mile hikes in the hills, caught up on my sleep (albeit restless from a cold and several aches and pains, not all related to the crash, and a bit of headache that comes on when I sink too far into the sofa or lie down). and otherwise functioned pretty normally. I went to my GP for a follow up about 48 hours after, which included an extensive quiz session, and he told me I seemed to be fine - and rather lucky. He advised that second-concussion fatality is rare for adults (much more common for youngsters), but that each concussion does some increment of permanent damage. I don't plan to quit riding, but I intend to be more selective about conditions and circumstances (this was only my 4th day on snow in my first winter retired - thanks to low snowfall). I plan to buy a MIPS helmet and will keep an eye on the development of the Hovding airbag helmets (http://www.hovding.com/ - they may have to refine the controls considerably to accommodate the dynamics of snowsports). I still plan to attend SES. Watch out for the guy in the orange and purple Trew suit - he can ride while unconscious.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 Thanks for posting such a personal account of a scary time. Your " hovding " reference should get the helmet debate raging again. Never (personally) though rigid foam was the definitive answer to a complex problem. Another good reason to ride with friends who have your back ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarve Posted January 4, 2014 Report Share Posted January 4, 2014 I plan to buy a MIPS helmet and will keep an eye on the development of the Hovding airbag helmets (http://www.hovding.com/ - they may have to refine the controls considerably to accommodate the dynamics of snowsports). You should take a look at 6D helmets, perhaps the state of the art helmet currently on the market. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 Just read an interesting review of the latest bike helmets on the Bicycle Helmet Safety Institute site. They are a non-profit cycle safety advocacy group. They are not convinced of the additional benefit of a MIPS type helmet given that almost every helmet slips/moves on impact. They are clearly in favour of helmet use but are trying to evaluate the manufacturers hype to help consumers make informed choices about helmet construction and price. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gcarve Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 ^ Do you have a link to that article SunSurfer? It is difficult to know what is real, and what is hype when it comes helmet design/technology. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
big mario Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 OhD, Glad to hear you came out of that relatively okay, have had a concussion or 2 as well, be careful in the mean time, and be aware of the side effects as you heal, you will not be yourself for a while. mario Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jp1 Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 SunSurfer , "They are not convinced of the additional benefit of a MIPS type helmet given that almost every helmet slips/moves on impact." JMO because I'm just a nobody, but it seems to me, the better a helmet is fitted to ones head the less it moves around. I wear my helmets properly fitted and tighter than most, so they have minimal movement (and I even have the chin straps buckled and snug). With the MIPS I recently purchased I can get a really snug fit that feels good and the suspension system built into the helmet can do the movement as designed. I can appreciate the BHSI reviews and evaluation as we all know their is a lot of manufacturers hype in everything available to the consumer ! All I do know is that in Real World fit and feel (for me) I really like the MIPS. After getting it properly set up and adjusted to my head, nothing has ever fit better out of the box without some kind of 'unauthorized adjustment'. Will it function better than any other helmet on the market? I hope I never find out ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 5, 2014 Report Share Posted January 5, 2014 ^ Do you have a link to that article SunSurfer? It is difficult to know what is real, and what is hype when it comes helmet design/technology. http://www.bhsi.org/helmet14.htm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ExcelsiorTheFathead Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 I just read an article about that Hovding helmet-ish thing. It is certainly innovative, but the article states that it isn't recommended for snow sports. Having to charge my helmet seems odd. I wonder if it could protect against a collision with a straightliner if the on-board gyros and accelerometers didn't register any change until the moment of impact. Without some kind of radar or ultrasonic proximity detector, it might be difficult for it to deploy in this situation, or if one was to collide directly with a tree or lift tower. Depending on how it is programmed, just the forces of being in a deep, sharp carve might cause it to deploy? I know a young lady who refuses to wear a helmet because it interferes with her ability to have nice hair while riding. This would be good for her, and it would keep her neck warm. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kieran Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 http://www.kraniums.com/ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Well i'm out of action for a wee bit.had the worst fall ever because I didn't do my usual reccie run. Chest took most impact, face slammed into snow.couldn't move for several minutes, blood gushing down face.thought I'd broken: nose, teeth and ribs but hey ho I got off lightly-none broken. Terrible breathing problems, feels like my lungs are bruised, difficulty walking for 2minutes or more due to pain on breathing. Tried to chop a carrot last week..oooh the pain in my chest. Much better now, off pain killers-just. Still doubt I can be on snow this week end either:-( Only myself to blame:freak3: Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted January 14, 2014 Report Share Posted January 14, 2014 Ouch. Look after yourself! I know how bad the frontside mackerel slap can be when it sneaks up on you - I can remember taking one and lying on the snow thinking "so this is how it feels to die ..." and panicking because I couldn't breathe. Not fun at all. Glad nothing was broken. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted January 15, 2014 Report Share Posted January 15, 2014 Looking forward to getting back on a board in the next few weeks. Cleared for full duty at work, have good flexibility in my legs, decent strength. Downsized my whole quiver this year, may have to live with using only shorter boards from now on. NOT liking that, but snowboarding is better than no snowboarding, if'n you knows what I mean... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdkuhnle Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'm a total newbie to hardbooting. Bought a Burton Factory Prime 167, Burton Physics Bindings, and Burton Fire boots (all from members of this site). First day was ok, stuck to the green runs, practiced the "normal" carve, tried one blue run and was able to manage, but a little scary. 2nd day was feeling more comfortable, and was linking carves on a blue run. I got a little too confident, was probably going too fast, switched from a heel side to a toe side carve and "went over the handle bars". My shoulder took the full impact and now I'm out for 4-6 weeks with a separated AC joint (shoulder). Hoping the recovery is quick but shoulder feels pretty weak 4 days later. Wish I had a video to analyze what I did wrong. It happened so fast, not sure if I caught an edge or what. Funny thing is that it's my left shoulder and I'm goofy footed, so not sure how I landed on my trailing shoulder. Feeling like maybe it's too much board for me to handle and not sure if I'm gonna get back on it this season. Anyone had a similar injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 26, 2014 Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 I'm a total newbie to hardbooting. Bought a Burton Factory Prime 167, Burton Physics Bindings, and Burton Fire boots (all from members of this site). First day was ok, stuck to the green runs, practiced the "normal" carve, tried one blue run and was able to manage, but a little scary. 2nd day was feeling more comfortable, and was linking carves on a blue run. I got a little too confident, was probably going too fast, switched from a heel side to a toe side carve and "went over the handle bars". My shoulder took the full impact and now I'm out for 4-6 weeks with a separated AC joint (shoulder). Hoping the recovery is quick but shoulder feels pretty weak 4 days later. Wish I had a video to analyze what I did wrong. It happened so fast, not sure if I caught an edge or what. Funny thing is that it's my left shoulder and I'm goofy footed, so not sure how I landed on my trailing shoulder. Feeling like maybe it's too much board for me to handle and not sure if I'm gonna get back on it this season. Anyone had a similar injury? Went over the handlebars on a motorcycle right hand turn (not sure if that's toe or heel) You'll get over it ! maybe you were a little over the nose and off balance in the turn. Stay low, stay loose, stay balanced, sounds easy doesn't it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
www.oldsnowboards.com Posted January 26, 2014 Author Report Share Posted January 26, 2014 jdkuhnle Bummer to hear of your injury. Yes, it happens very fast, alpine's precision also causes it to be less forgiving. I hope you heal well and got enough joy out of carving that you give it another go. Sounds like you were on the right track, take it slow and do some drills. If you loose your focus and don't make deliberate motions , alpine will spank you . Take care and use this time to get ready for the next run at it. Bryan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
floBoot Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 (edited) Heal quickly jdkuhnle and sorry to hear what happened. The upside is you'll still have sometime this season to practice after you're time out. I don't know much about all these alpine boards, plates etc but the board you was on, was it quite a flexible board or a stiff one? Also what were the snow conditions like...hard pack or spring like? Allee, thanks for your kind words. I certainly had a 'mackerel Slap'.....hahaha:lol: ...90% better now....still got stiffness in chest area on deep breathing but... ..had my first easy test run last Thursday(after almost 3 Weeks rest) then on Saturday on a black (softies, spring/powder snow):p I forgot to mention how people at work kept asking me if I was put off snowboarding...it didn't occur to me? I would have expected that question if I had broken a bone...I do find people odd at times:rolleyes: Edited January 27, 2014 by floBoot Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SEJ Posted January 27, 2014 Report Share Posted January 27, 2014 JD, make sure the base of the board is flat. Burtons were known for concave bases. Puts both edges in contact when running base flat. Bad things happen quickly. Hope you heal fast. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jon Dahl Posted February 11, 2014 Report Share Posted February 11, 2014 I'm BACK! Rode Stevens Pass Sunday, got in close to 4 hours and feel pretty good today. Funny thing is the right knee is the best part of me, rehab worked. Lil stiff n sore other places, but that just reminds me how good it was! Rode my new to me Palmer X Titanium 164-a real score at $70 with tune! Now to make it to the end of this season in one piece and figure out what I want to do for re-fitting the quiver. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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