AIL "Alpine Injured List"

[KingCrimson]

I definitely think it's prudent if you're moving at a decent click. Especially with super grippy boards like the one I was on, it's just not worth putting the board back in the snow if the slope is flat enough to let you decelerate and there's nothing particularly dangerous downhill of you.

Hopefully if you're carving fast enough to fear injury when you're chattering it's on an empty slope, and unrecoverable chatter for me always happens at the bottom of the turn so trees usually aren't too much of a concern.

[keltacer]

This happened yesterday, my last day of the season. Now I'm part of the tib fib club.

[KingCrimson]

Oh ****...that's a good one. More details?

[Kimo]

Holy crap!

[drschwartz]

Crap, metal in your future, and unfortunately not just in your board.

[mookie431]

I leave my brother keltacer at the hospital for a few hours and I find a post about his leg from him, when he is still on the hospital bed. He is one tough man, I'm sure we will see him on the slopes next year.

[lafcadio]

*ouch* that looks nasty. Kel, so sorry to hear about this. I hope your pain meds are good and you heal up as quickly as possible.

Looking forward to riding with you guys next season.

[lowrider]

If there is such a thing as a good break i'd take yours. Looks like a twisting break which means lots of surface area for the bones to mend. Should be stronger than before. Good Luck !

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Sorry to hear of your injury. Keep in touch with updates please! Many of us have been there and want to help.

[drschwartz]

Sucks about your injury. Yeah, I coach the Shasta High School boarders. Practiced today in 45 degree slush. Racing tomorrow. Get well soon, and perhaps I'll see you next year in your neck of the woods.

[teach]

Kel, any idea how long you'll be off that leg? Really sorry to see you in this thread! You'll be good to go next season. Don't feel like you're missing anything (snow-wise) for the rest of this season here -- Camelback has been really bad since Saturday and it looks like there's no effort to improve things. I think they're done and just going through the motions. Best of luck getting that back together. Do the physical therapy religiously when you get to that point.

[keltacer]

Thanks for the words of encouragement guys. The pain hasn't been terrible, just a few times where we couldn't get on top of the pain. The nausea created by all the chemicals they've pumped in to me has been worse. Anyways, I had surgery the same day of the accident and have some new hardware in my leg. I haven't see the X-rays yet it ill post it when I have a chance. Basically, it was my warm up run and first time ever to hunter mountain. I was transitioning to a toe side turn by the left side of a trail (belt parkway) when I hit a bump that I didn't see at all. It sent me little airborne but out of stupidity, I target fixated on the fencing on the left of the trail. Went straight into the pickett fencing and I think the board got caught up as I kept going. I knew instantly that it was broken.

[kipstar]

Never thought this is the thread I would join.

Riding in tomamu on a rolling straight groomer each run pushing a bit harder on the last of 3 days last hour. Pushed into a hard toeside and I think my left knee clipped the snow, went backwards rotating and sent the board and myself into a sommersault landing on the tail on the other edge; felt a POP in my rear knee and immediate pain.

Waited 10 min then rode down and soon after was icing and compressing. Without access to doctors and now with another 3 days of work before I get back home to thailand I will just have to compress and ice. I have painkillers. Can't do much here as I have to fly and work.

Knee now feels completely unstable 24 hours later and extremely sore although not swollen.

Never had a fall like this; it was partly riding fast, grippy snow and a much longer board (180) creating some decent leverage when I landed back to front. Also my fitness was off this trip.

Dammit!

[www.oldsnowboards.com]

Sorry to hear about your injury Kistar. Sounds like you are able to care for yourself? Heal fast and let us know how you are doing.

Yes, this is one thread you don't want to contribute to. It is good to let the community know so we can help where we can and pass along good vibes!

Bryan

[kipstar]

Sorry to hear about your injury Kistar. Sounds like you are able to care for yourself? Heal fast and let us know how you are doing.

Yes, this is one thread you don't want to contribute to. It is good to let the community know so we can help where we can and pass along good vibes!

Bryan

Thanks b ry.

It was not a good fall at all and quite unexpected. Given my inability to speak japanese and costs I think its better to use internet wisdom for now. I also know enough ppl with acl injuries to roughly know that's this is probably what it is and I can't do much more than treat symptoms for now as I also have 2 days of work.

In this case a plate would have made things worse as it was a knee out leading to a spin and any extra weight would have made the problem worse. Iam still on the hopeful side it is pull or minor tear. The pop feeling during the fall and pain and knee instability are kind of the counter balance. Bring on the mri saturday!

Weird to get this boarding and not in the park.

[keltacer]

Heres a sideshot from before the surgery.

heres a shot from during surgery of the striker rod system going in. At least it's got a bad ass name. I should have a better pic after my first check up in about a week.

[kipstar]

After MRI seems I am in the 28% with an acl injury where it isn't torn completely...and in fact it is 25-30% torn only!!

The doc drained about 100ml of yellow fluid today and I'm in a knee brace. Will know in a week but unlike Seinfeld it seems like it won't be prognosis negative.

Best possible outcome but may get a 2nd opinion to be sure.

Edited March 19, 2013 by kipstar

[drschwartz]

Kipstar,

Don't want to be a "bubble burster", but in that MRI you ACL looks completely torn. Lots of edema, very few fibers left, and large amount of fluid in the knee.

ACL injury treatment is not driven by the appearance of the ACL on the scan. Treatment is determined by the degree of instability that you experience combined with the overall appearance of her knee in terms of associated meniscal injury or other ligament injury as well as the presence of any pre-existing arthritis. Your age also has something to do with the decision as well.

How old are you? Are you experiencing instability? Since the surgery is a reconstruction, rather than repair, it is totally okay to wait a few weeks before getting anything done. We typically like to have knee motion restored before doing surgery anyway. Once you get past the initial injury you can make a better decision about the need for treatment. If your knee feels unstable once the initial pain and swelling have disappeared then you should seriously consider getting an ACL reconstruction.

[lowrider]

Kipstar,

Don't want to be a "bubble burster", but in that MRI you ACL looks completely torn. Lots of edema, very few fibers left, and large amount of fluid in the knee.

ACL injury treatment is not driven by the appearance of the ACL on the scan. Treatment is determined by the degree of instability that you experience combined with the overall appearance of her knee in terms of associated meniscal injury or other ligament injury as well as the presence of any pre-existing arthritis. Your age also has something to do with the decision as well.

How old are you? Are you experiencing instability? Since the surgery is a reconstruction, rather than repair, it is totally okay to wait a few weeks before getting anything done. We typically like to have knee motion restored before doing surgery anyway. Once you get past the initial injury you can make a better decision about the need for treatment. If your knee feels unstable once the initial pain and swelling have disappeared then you should seriously consider getting an ACL reconstruction.

Very interested in following your posts. I applaud you for offering your opinion on riders injuries and for others sharing their painful personal experiences. Thanks to all Bomber "AIL" members.

[kipstar]

Dear Paul

Thank you so much for your reply. I am 40 years old and injury occurred on tuesday; mri was today so a week later and I have been walking on it for the last 4 days for work (1-4km of walking daily).

He also did a test with knee bent checking degree of instability and knee angle outwards. Both compared to my other knee. He claimed degree of movement was not much in those tests.

Until his diagnosis I had presumed acl torn completely for sure, so it was a surprise to me when he said it was partially torn only maybe around 20-30%. hAving not had it before the knee feels unstable and swollen.

I will go back next week and once swelling reduces will take the mri for a 2nd opinion locally. If it is ok with u wll post online asur advice is hugely appreciated.

Due to other health issues realistically I do not have loads and loads of years left to do sports but non stable knees and likliehood of further injury are best treated now rather than having problems later.

Doctor didn't say surgery wasn't going to happen yet; so maybe I got my hopes up too fast? h

[drschwartz]

Your ACL is almost certainly completely torn. Partial tears are pretty uncommon - kind of like pulling on a rope untl it breaks, but then trying to stop pulling before it breaks all the way in two.

However, it doesn't really determine how much instability you have. If your meniscus, collateral ligaments, and joint capsule are all O.K., then you may not have much instability as a result of the injury. As I said in my earlier post, there is no urgency for surgery. The orthopedist can't repair the ligament anyway, and is going to use a graft to reconstruct the ligament. Therefore, the surgery can be done a month later, six months later, whenever it is convenient for you to get it done.

An 18-20-year-old will almost always have surgery . A 70-year-old with this injury will almost never have surgery. I am 57 years old. I coach a high school snowboard team, and a an avid snowboarder, and outdoor enthusiast. If I had this injury and ended up with any significant instability, I would have one of my partners reconstruct the knee. If I was two months post injury, and not having a significant instability symptoms, then I might treat conservatively and use a brace for snowboarding. Good luck with your injury, hope things turn out well for you.

[kipstar]

Dear Dr Paul

Thanks for the advice; at age 40 I am sort of in the middle ground where I think most likely to give up 9 - 12 months of time to get a good knee for another 10-20 years would be totally worth it; I had already decided I was ready for surgery (even had a timing slot of public holidays in early May picked out) so the diagnosis was a bit of a surprise!

I don't tend to do things conservatively, and I would not really want to know where the limit lies and go through the annoyance of the current situation again; so once the swelling is down I guess the next steps are to redo the pivot-shift test, anterior drawer test and the Lachman test and get a 2nd opinion based on the MRI?

Your explanation of a rope snapping is how I understand the ligament works which is why you either snap it or you don't, not common to only partially tear it.... once I have some more pics (next week) will share here and perhaps you can talk us through what we are looking at (if you have time) as it's a pretty common injury for skiers (less common for snowboarders I suspect)

[kitu]

I had an accident last april - on those dam skis Normally on snowboard but this was on the easter slopes and there were rather much 'traffic', so I decided to take it for sure and so on skis.. Weight a bit too much to tails, and I was lying on nets before noticing anything else than hurting on the knee already on the air.. Couldn't move the knee or stand on it at all. On that time I was 46, doing all kind of sporting and doing now again :) (eg. skiing (nordic, dh, snowbord), skating, golf, badmington, tennis, mountain biking).

End result of the accident was unhappy triad, ie. almost totally ruptured MCL, ACL and a slight rupture on lateral meniscus back horn, opening to up, down and back side (mri doctors explanation).. Did hurt like h*ll and was swollen and stiff. Orhopedic doctor thought that we should go through the conservative way (more common in Finland than in US, I think, depends of cource with the doctor) to see if it's going to be stabile (as the MCL was healing well and as the ACL was not totally ruptured). Doctors comment about the meniscus repair itself (with 'bioscrews' or how they call it) was, that they don't last well for over 20 year old people, and that the meniscus rupture itself was not big enough to cause surgery.. Have insurance, so was not an money issue in that sense.

At about one month of accident started a hard period of physical exercise with Physical Trainer's help (even on that time the doc couldn't do the normal twisting tests). Had a movement about 50-60degree on the knee on starting phase of the excercises and I was limping. All the muscles seemed like they've collapsed above the knee.. Hard work, even getting the movement on the knee better was tough, not to mention about one leg exercises on unstabile mattress and stuff..

At three months doctors opinion was that the movent was normal and his conclusion was that if there's significant instability issues (once or more in a month) then the ACL reconstruction and perhaps a small shaping of meniscus, on the time of one year from the accident (or earlier if bad)..

At about six months from accident the other orthopedic doc said that the knee is almost as stabile as the other one (those lachmann and other tests). This was when I went to complain about 'some new sounds from the knee' - trademark - snap/crackle sounds must have been from the meniscus (mainly on doing overextension and in about 20 degree, ie in cycling). This doc said that I have that kind of knee that it's not suffering badly of the ACL rupture, and no issues on doing meniscus tests, just sound on some phase, so let's see. That doctor also said that almost all of the partly ruptured ACL's are totally ruptured when it's actually operated, so this doc suggested reconstruction.

11 months from accident.. I'm still doing phase by phase harder with all the sports I've been doing earlier (had the persimission to do all sports from the begining of this year) and following the first doc's treaments at least for the moment (and not doing surgery). Now the knee is actually about normal, but still a small amount of restiction on passive move (heel to the bottoms) and leg muscles on a bit lower level than on the other, no issues on instalibity (except perhaps on the head as the knee didn't hold just after the accident - for the first time ever).. And still extra exercising besides those loved sports.

I'd say you can do the exercise and check out if it's going to be stabile. If not - go to the surgery. Rapid actions are necessary for top athlete who must be back on business as quicly as possibly - to earn their living, and when you can't wait for perhaps the double time and results of conservative treament and in case not recovering well enough, the surgery. At least for me it has been ok to check out the conservative way, which is a bit faster to recover than from surgery. The things are not that black/white for even doctors, for the arthirithis sake or any other way either. Then there's always risks related to surgery. Have a friend whose wrist has been been stiffend on the third surgery, as the screw on the first original surgery was slipped out and so the joint was left to wrong position. Some other risks also.. Not to scare you, I've been doing a bit of consideration also whether I go or not to surgery - that is mainly - before I had the permission to do some more 'serious' sports :lol:

[dingbat]

Heres a sideshot from before the surgery.

[ATTACH]33990[/ATTACH]

heres a shot from during surgery of the striker rod system going in. At least it's got a bad ass name. I should have a better pic after my first check up in about a week.

Yikes!

What are they telling you about recovery? Time frame, if you'll get back to 100%, etc.?

[keltacer]

Had my first post op check up yesterday. Everything looks good and is still aligned properly. Staples came out and they put me is a removable walking boot, thank god. Swelling is starting to come down quite a bit so the pain is much more manageable now. The orthopedic surgeon I met with yesterday believes ill make a full recovery. Hope he's right. I start PT this Friday.