michael.a Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) So a selling point of the UPZ is shorter sole length and ah hem lower binding angles. In trying to center the new to me RC12 shell (312mm) the center point is so far back I have to push the whole boot forward on the bindings. In effect any advantage of ‘shorter sole length’ is lost as I have to increase the angles to compensate this huge bias. Or am I doing something wrong? My measurements find the center point of UPZ boots is about .2 inches towards the heel from the molded ‘centerline’ in the boot or pretty much on the dot of the injection sink mark find right on the bottom of the shell. Having the boots ‘centered’, not only does it look wrong, but in using the large lift blocks on my Intec F2s I cant even center the boot properly as I ran out of space on mounting the intec heel piece. Edited February 7, 2021 by michael.a Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 UPZ have totally out of wack position of the heel block. One is the alignment problem you've just described. The other is, that position resulted in too steep internal forward slope of the boot. Also, it is quite difficult to get into the rear bail, as the block is hidden under the heel... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 I ignore the center mark on boots and place the toe and heel equidistant from the edge of the board. Seems to work for me. 8 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 (edited) The center mark is center when the Ski heel is in place. So subtract that amount is actual center. So the center mark should actually be ~1cm toward the heel of the boot. My shells are the same size as yours. These are my ~centered F2s on my wide Nirvana (24cm) at 52.5/47.5 Edited February 7, 2021 by lonbordin Stupid auto correct! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dredman Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 10 hours ago, bigwavedave said: I ignore the center mark on boots and place the toe and heel equidistant from the edge of the board. 100% agree! 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Same here. Search for the Fuego test. Everything else is a waste of time. The super-short version is to use a cardboard box to evaluate over or underhang. Your bindings will end up asymmetric. i.e. front foot further forward, rear foot further rearward. Ignore it and ride. That stupid heel placement is marketing junk at its worst. But I love everything else about the boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeoffV Posted February 7, 2021 Report Share Posted February 7, 2021 Overthinking it. Just get your angles right and stance. Remember the heel ramp is a lot higher on UPZs. You’ll need more lift on the front. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 On 2/7/2021 at 4:12 AM, lonbordin said: The center mark is center when the Ski heel is in place. Exactly. Ignore those marks. Instead, when centering the boot, take into account that the forward lean mechanism sticks out quite a bit further than the heel. This is something to consider when you tip up the board high on edge. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 right so i am going to off top a little : https://www.mountain-slope.com/schuh-und-bindungseinstellung/ what do you guys make of this then ? regards Lukasz Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 (edited) Seems Mountainslope have a center mark for snowboards. The UPZ center mark definitely refers to the DIN adapters. I have more questions about why a symmetric canting disc "is the best". It would seem that it prohibits canting adjustment. No idea why that is supposed to be good. Edited February 8, 2021 by Aracan 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 4 hours ago, slapos said: right so i am going to off top a little : https://www.mountain-slope.com/schuh-und-bindungseinstellung/ what do you guys make of this then ? regards Lukasz I set my boot/bindings up using equidistant heel/toe method. I was unaware of the MS centerline (or simply ignored it), but I just checked the centerline on the MS boots and they are over the center of the binding disc. So, with MS boots, both methods may get you to the same end result. The centerline on MS boots could be a good place to start. I usually find I tweak the setup after seeing how it rides and looking at my tracks provides clues. I'm looking for a balance between edge pressure control and avoiding bootout. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 Wait I am late to this conversation....there is a centerline on boots? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 8, 2021 Report Share Posted February 8, 2021 1 minute ago, carvedog said: Wait I am late to this conversation....there is a centerline on boots? Triangle- There's a line on the bottom of UPZ (more a plastic bump) but that's centered on the ski toe and heel not the snowboard setup. If I remember correctly there's a similar mark on the DeeLuxe models. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WhiteHorse Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 I don't see a picture. ??? I's hard to visualize without one. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 I don't see why would one ever need a center mark on snowboard boots... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 @lonbordin, didn't you do a good video on the Fuego method? Can you share it again? I agree - center marks are useless on a snowboard. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 If your stance width allows it, mount the discs transversely across the board and center the bindings that way Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HillB Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 On 2/6/2021 at 8:09 PM, bigwavedave said: I ignore the center mark on boots and place the toe and heel equidistant from the edge of the board. Seems to work for me. Same 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted February 9, 2021 Report Share Posted February 9, 2021 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 The "Fuego" method works great for Deeluxe (most sizes) and UPZ size M28 and up. How it works for UPZ M28 is binding dependent. For MP 24-27, UPZ's used with F2's, SG's and TD3 variants (standard and Step in) are not conducive to centered boot bias - ie toe/heel even over the edges as measured by the Fuego method shown in vid above. This occurs especially at the front foot. For MP 24-27 UPZ's either ride with toe back from board edge and heel even with the edge, or mod the binding to move the boot forward. I hear using Intecs instead of Fintecs can help minutely since the pins are located slightly back of Fintecs. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 Good lord, we just keep trying to make this stuff difficult, don't we? Scew the hoof clamper on the snow stick and twiddle the knobs until the foot case it centered. If it feels off, twiddle the knobs a little more. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted February 10, 2021 Report Share Posted February 10, 2021 7 minutes ago, Mr.E said: Good lord, we just keep trying to make this stuff difficult, don't we? I kinda hoped my video would keep it simple... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 On 2/9/2021 at 4:01 PM, rjnakata said: I hear using Intecs instead of Fintecs can help minutely since the pins are located slightly back of Fintecs. Correction: the pin spacing of FINTECs and INTECs are identical. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted March 7, 2021 Author Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 It all looks wrong but this this is yhe toe and heel block position after centering my UPZ hoof boots. Using lifts and the ramp block make things even more absurd. But it feels right. These comments that this is overthinking it are honestly very unhelpful. If me and others are scratching their heads with 10 or more years in the game, then forget about beginners. How are they to even understand what feels ‘off’? The F2 binding manual completely overlooks this important issue. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted March 7, 2021 Report Share Posted March 7, 2021 a picture with the boots in the bindings is more helpful, from above, or with a straight edge against the board's edge. Skip ahead to 7:00 in this video to see how Sigi does it. Apparently RedBull doesn't come in a box. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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