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lowrider

Grooming quality

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6 hours ago, lowrider said:

 

One doesn't find it.  A good groomer operator makes it by grooming with the blade down.

Amen! 

I think millennials are grooming now... It's been horrible.. Including whitefish.. That I just got back.. We call it swim Lanes.. Attention to detail is lacking... Sad.. 

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Less than satisfied with recent grooming.  I know that the snow conditions have been a challenge here in the NE.  Trails that used to be flat and groomed smooth from edge to edge, now have seams and rollers where there never was?

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Actually it is the Machines and how they have been evolving...have been talking with management here for the last 5 years about it, of course they say it is the same old groom, no it is not, it is thinner now, the grooves are smaller and the tilling is shallower because of the speed of the machines now...the groom is mostly Fake here now, thin and inconsistent with holes appearing just below the surface , dangerous when you get on a ridge or near a chairlift... They have told me they are trying to figure it out with the manufactures, I really don't believe they will go back to the Real Groom, Skiers with two edges and the fact there are so few Carvers in percentage on the mountain, the complaints go unheard, I will update this, Last season on the Gondola with 5 Instructors. all with 30 years plus teaching skiing on Aspen Mt. told me that, the Groom is weird and not Good !! I recently saw a pic of a Northwest resort, another one from Andorra that shows the same Spotty Groom as here, it is industry wide now...

Here is what Fake Groom looks like... one from Europe, Northwest U S and Lastly Aspen

 

Andarra.jpg

Fake 1.jpg

Fake.jpg

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3 hours ago, Shred Gruumer said:

Amen! 

I think millennials are grooming now... It's been horrible.. Including whitefish.. That I just got back.. We call it swim Lanes.. Attention to detail is lacking... Sad.. 

Yes.  That's exactly what's happening out here in Massachusetts.  😞

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2 hours ago, billyt. said:

Less than satisfied with recent grooming.  I know that the snow conditions have been a challenge here in the NE.  Trails that used to be flat and groomed smooth from edge to edge, now have seams and rollers where there never was?

Same story here. Noticeable lack of grooming quality, from even last season. @khoward euphomistically refers to those unlevel seams, lips, drop-offs, holes and other grooming irregularities as "groomer features".

Spirit Mt has an attachment called the Renovator which chews up the ice base to a depth of 6", but they havn't used it for years because it's too slow and costs too much to run it.

I changed my ASB "rank" to the Renovator. My theory is the deeper we make our trenches we'll force the groomers to til deeper to erase our tracks, at least making for a softer groom. :eplus2:

And then, we always find the nicest groom in the park, where they spend way too much time and energy grooming to perfection.

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45 minutes ago, bigwavedave said:

...we always find the nicest groom in the park, where they spend way too much time and energy grooming to perfection.

I agree!  I've taken to doing a few runs in the park for kicks

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howdy

yeah! shred was here in whitefish and he has been here many times over the years and has seen

the changes. about the last five years I have seen the decline and old time skiers have seen it too.

maybe it has been a weird weather year with warmer temps, but the groom does not seem to last

as long. I think it is a cost cutting thing cause sometimes the runs are not groomed wall to wall

and they will not groom a run for a few days and alternate runs that should be groomed everyday.

I am bouncing around everyday on the seams...

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7 hours ago, bigwavedave said:

Same story here. Noticeable lack of grooming quality, from even last season. @khoward euphomistically refers to those unlevel seams, lips, drop-offs, holes and other grooming irregularities as "groomer features".

Spirit Mt has an attachment called the Renovator which chews up the ice base to a depth of 6", but they havn't used it for years because it's too slow and costs too much to run it.

I changed my ASB "rank" to the Renovator. My theory is the deeper we make our trenches we'll force the groomers to til deeper to erase our tracks, at least making for a softer groom. :eplus2:

And then, we always find the nicest groom in the park, where they spend way too much time and energy grooming to perfection.

Big wave, now you’ve hit my pet peeve!!  I know the parks are great for marketing purposes, but when they start putting features on some great runs drives me crazy.  Not to mention all the snow that has to be made to create those mountains, where other trails are still closed at the beginning of February because they just have only a little natural snow.  SO, everyone stays on the usual crowded runs.  Then when we do get some natural snow, it takes days for the ski patrol to drop lines to finally open those trails.  Not sure if this is cost cutting, but I think that trail expansion would lead to a more customer friendly experience.  My two cents.

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It can be kind of fun to finish a carve with lots of energy built up, then pop off one of those "groomer features" into the next carve. 

But yeah, quality seems to be declining everywhere. Maybe it's a plot by BIG ALPINE to sell more isolation plates? 

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It’s been a rough season in Vermont for good snow.  Okemo has a two step grooming where they start with a mountain tiller (it’s like a disc harrow with spiral galaxy finger blades, not sure it’s actual name) which processes the snow fairly deep.  Then they come back around with the normal power tiller to lay down corduroy.  It doesn’t make up for a poor operator, but conditions are usually better than the other nearby (similar weather) resorts.  If you can tail the groomers in on an early run, it’s hero snow the whole way.

Edited by chaoticbiker

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Just back riding in bansko bulgaria. The grooming there was a bit of mixed bag certain sections were near perfect rock solid cord other bits they either didnt bother to groom at all or it looked like they let the work experience kid do it lol.

For example there is a really nice long steepish red thats pretty much the ideal pitch to carve on all the way down. The top generally couldnt have been better where as the bottom third was anything but flat with lots pretty big bumps that if you werent careful would send you airborne or bounce you around a bit. The blues for the most part were pretty well groomed except for the plateau which just turned into a giant mogual field after the first day that then just left that way for the rest of the week. The black tomba race run generally got the best groom and if you rode it early before all the cord got stripped by the snow plow ski punters/heel edge hero snowboarders it was pretty much perfect.

On the other had i refer to the cat at the indoor slope i normally ride in as schrodinger because when its in the garage you have no idea if its alive or dead.... for a basher that only has to do 200m of slope a night it dies with alarming regularity 😕

Edited by scottishsurfer
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4 hours ago, scottishsurfer said:

heel edge hero snowboarders

LOL, I have a new term! 

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rails, boxes and barrels are some of My favorite grooming features, to lace trenches around, like carving your way through a maze,

always the smoothest, freshest cord on the mountain.

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It's been on a decline here, ever since the Olympics. Horrible thing is that they groom less and less runs and sometimes not even every day. 

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At our hill, it seems like the groomers are not running the tiller at all.. I've watched them just drag the weighted skirt at the back around the hill, going at full speed.  You get whatever comes out the back.   

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11 minutes ago, west carven said:

howdy

I will stop complaining! ... look at the groom in the picture in this article from the best pow resort in the world.

Japan's Ski Areas Are Having Their Worst Winter in Decades

spacer.png

A skiing venue in Sapporo, Hokkaido, on Jan. 10.  Kyodo News

dirt, twigs and leaves aside, that groom looks pretty good.

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Do you think they do shallower groom because they are afraid of going through the snow to the ground below or because grooming shallower is faster? Seems like grooming used to be bigger corduroy. 

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4 hours ago, JohnE said:

Do you think they do shallower groom because they are afraid of going through the snow to the ground below or because grooming shallower is faster? Seems like grooming used to be bigger corduroy. 

^ Great question for the Prinroth boys at MCC.

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I rode last weekend with @AlexJ at Stratton which over the past 10 years has been known for providing some of the top grooming in the East, hence having multiple ECES events there over the years.  Well Alex has been telling that it has been bad the past few years from a grooming perspective. I can personally confirm that I experienced some of the worst grooming I have seen in a long time. After riding there I feel spoiled with the great grooming I have seen at my local bump Wachusett Mtn. Even Sugarloaf has now better grooming than Stratton.  Someone in the know told me that grooming will improve there in the next 3 weeks as a new groomer will be laying down some cord. I'll have to make a trip up again to confirm👍

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