Beckmann AG Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/study-warns-helmets-don-t-131909843.html Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rusty Edges Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 There is always the case of a $200 helmet on a two bit brain. I've been accused of this many times. "What are you protecting?" No helmet is going to protect you from every possible accident. I've worn helmets for so long, I cannot ride without one now... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 "They found skiers wearing helmets were ... twice as likely to suffer ... chest injuries." Well, it's conclusive. Helmets are bad. They cause chest injuries. But I guess I'll keep using mine. I actually may be alive today because I was wearing a helmet when I fell off a ladder a couple of years ago. It was one of those forestry helmets with the built in hearing protection that I was wearing because of the noise from a disk sander (removing paint) plus the face shield helped protect from paint chips. I had brain bleeds with the helmet. Who knows how bad it would have been without.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 Study seem to be similar to results of drivers when ABS brakes were a new option. Conclusion was people assumed lower risk as they associated better braking ability to safer overall ( They drove faster and closer to vehicle ahead.) ! No cure for stupid risky behavior. I'll offer up this for debate are the most expensive helmets the best helmets ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Allee Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 I bought a non MIPS helmet last year. Now that there are MIPS helmets, is that obviously unsafe? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyride Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 Slow speed, or almost no speed death edge fall backwards on an icy cat-track. Hit HARD!. Walked away. That helmet (non-injury) must be the reason I seem to be a contrarian when I hear/read stupid articles. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted December 1, 2019 Report Share Posted December 1, 2019 People that don't wear seatbelts are less likely to need treatment for broken limbs in car crashes too. Not because people wearing seatbelts are more likely to have broken limbs, but because you don't have to treat broken bones on dead people. It's all in how you word it and how you include or exclude data for the study. Yes, some people are dumb and take more risks with a helmet. Darwin has a knack for taking care of those, plus it makes for great clickbait article titles. I'll keep wearing a helmet in the hopes that it might help in some cases where otherwise I might have troubles, but I don't assume it prevents all injuries. I do LOVE the rapidly-adjustable venting, enabling the same piece of headgear to work from just-above-freezing temps to -40. 2 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 Maybe the relevant debate is full-face versus non full-face? I don't think any of the FIS approved helmets for speed events have a face guard (due to risk of neck injury) but I know some folks here ride with full-face lids. Are there any obvious positive points for a face guard for snowboarding? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Neil Gendzwill Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 Trees. A face guard might stop that branch you didn’t brush out of the way in time. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 Agree on the face protection. Having been bush whacked fallowing kids through the nether regions off GoatsEye @ Lake Louise it was days before my face felt normal again. Personal rule of thumb now is to fallow someone of equal or greater height through the trees. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 That's a terrible article. I'm not criticizing the research, but the article is just silly. Re:full face- totally anecdotal, but I stopped wearing a chin guard when I had a pretty good digger that wrenched my neck with it. I'd rather a broken nose, personally. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 Growing up I never wore helmets either bike riding or skiing. Now I never ride my bike or snowboard without one. I have never needed a helmet on my bike. Only once or twice was I glad that I was wearing a helmet snowboarding. I don't think that I take any bigger risks just because I'm wearing a helmet. Modern helmets are comfortable. Better to have it & not need it than the other way around. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
trailertrash Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 35 resorts mostly in NH and VT? Seems like a lot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 I wear a helmet because it's comfortable, warm, and protects my head from the raving lunatics on the mountain. I have confidence in my boarding... I have ZERO confidence in the skills of others. I can't count the number of near misses/close calls I experienced at PC/Canyons last week. People completely out of control. My little local bump might suck but man it's great to be the only rider on the run. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 3 hours ago, JohnE said: Growing up I never wore helmets either bike riding or skiing. Now I never ride my bike or snowboard without one. I have never needed a helmet on my bike. Only once or twice was I glad that I was wearing a helmet snowboarding. I don't think that I take any bigger risks just because I'm wearing a helmet. Modern helmets are comfortable. Better to have it & not need it than the other way around. Just an anecdote with a sample size of 1, but I hit my head while cycling this summer for maybe the first time -- I've come off the bike before, but never landed directly on my head. This time, I managed to spin out in some dry leaves, fall, and stop my fall by hitting a frickin' railing with my head. Even though this was at very slow speed (I was riding up a spiral bike / pedestrian overpass to cross a major street) I would definitely have had a concussion - at minimum - without the helmet. I will continue to wear a helmet while cycling and boarding (and skating, for that matter). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted December 2, 2019 Report Share Posted December 2, 2019 I had a stupid crash at Loveland a long time ago where I wound up catching a heel edge and slamming my head into some ice (no helmets in those days). It sure smarted and I had a mild headache after a few minutes but wasn't dizzy or disoriented. I called it a day though (it was close to closing) and after I started driving back to Denver I noticed that I couldn't read my speedometer. Or the license plate on the car in front of me. Or the street signs really. There was a spot right in the center of my vision that was kind of half like static and half like really bad artifacts like poorly compressed DVD. Probably 95% of my vision was fine but right were I would focus for reading wasn't registering right. Needless to say I stopped driving and happily after 5 or 10 minutes it cleared up and hasn't bothered me since. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
philw Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 17 hours ago, Mr.E said: That's a terrible article. I'm not criticizing the research, but the article is just silly.... I read it and didn't come to anything like that conclusion. Can you explain what precisely you think is "silly" and why? What am I missing here, please? The relationship between injury rates and helmet usage seems to me, as a helmet user, to be something well worth examining. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aracan Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 Most definitely. However, the article doesn't seem to add much to the already established high probability that risk compensation does exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 Ask yourself the question "If two snowboarders/skiers were subjected to identical forces in a fall/crash/collision and only one was wearing a helmet, which one would be more likely to have the more severe head injury?" I suspect more people wear helmets than not these days so likely more helmet wearers than non wearers are injured. Helmets are not responsible for the rise of park and half pipe riding, nor for extreme skiing, nor for the crowds on ski fields. Nothing will save you if you come to an immediate stop from 50mph/80kph by slamming into a tree/ski lift pylon/ other solid immovable object. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 Correlation vs. causation... However the one interesting and disconcerting tidbit for me was “the rate of helmet use has doubled but the rate of head injuries did not decline.” A missing stastic is if, in general, the rate of accidents/incidents of all kinds are increasing over the measured period? Is resort terrain becoming significantly more extreme in the past decade? Has there been a boom in the off-piste extreme riding crowd? Or could it be argued that over-crowding at ski areas and pandering to tourist-level skiers/boarders is increasing the overall risk of the sport and that helmets are barely holding down the fort? I know I would argue for the later at the local ski area. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 Perhaps the video images don't translate well to reality. Helmet or no helmet! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnE Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 5 hours ago, SunSurfer said: Nothing will save you if you come to an immediate stop from 50mph/80kph by slamming into a tree/ski lift pylon/ other solid immovable object. As the saying goes: It's not the fall that kills you - its the sudden stop at the end! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted December 3, 2019 Report Share Posted December 3, 2019 10 hours ago, philw said: I read it and didn't come to anything like that conclusion. Can you explain what precisely you think is "silly" and why? What am I missing here, please? The relationship between injury rates and helmet usage seems to me, as a helmet user, to be something well worth examining. The title, for one- clearly helmets don't offer full protection on the slopes. I also have concerns with any article that, even generally, suggests helmet usage leads to more injury when the study seems to show correlation over causation. Most helmet boxes and hang tags explicitly say that helmets don't prevent all injury or even all head injury. To my eye, the article is putting a semi sensational spin on non-news reporting on a study that further confirms what most people already know. The study also shows an increased level of secondary injury, but also confirms secondary factors like increased user ability bringing them into higher risk situations. This doesn't relate to helmet effectiveness, just that many athletes who are pushing their own boundaries are wearing helmets. I'm a fan of critical research into helmet design and effectiveness. I think the study may have been there, but the article is fairly clickbaity to me. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 A few seasons ago I rang my bell HARD while wearing a MIPS helmet. That made me think there has got to be something better. Ever since switching to a Project Grizzly bearproof suit my injuries have dropped to ZERO. People say I don't move as freely or ride as gracefully as before, but this level of gaper-crushing protection doesn't come without it's compromises. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bumpyride Posted December 4, 2019 Report Share Posted December 4, 2019 (edited) This article makes about as much sense as telling hockey players don't bother to wear cups because: The most common hockey injuries include: AC joint (shoulder) ACL strains or tears. Broken collarbone. Concussions. MCL strains or tears. Muscle strains. Shoulder dislocation. And choirs are always looking for sopranos. Edited December 4, 2019 by bumpyride 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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