jburk Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yesterday I had one of my best days riding since I started back up again last season after almost a 10-year hiatus. When I started back up I switched from early 90’s gear to a modern board and boots, now on this year’s Donek Freecarve 167 (secret construction, not metal) and UPZ RC10s, so it was pretty much like starting over. Yesterday I rode faster, smoother, with cleaner carves for longer and more vertical with significantly less fatigue than any day since I’ve started back. I hadn’t changed anything in my setup, so I couldn’t attribute it to anything I had tweaked/adjusted. Then at the end of the day I discovered I had been riding in walk mode all day. I had forgotten to lock my boots. I thought that perhaps I had previously been locking my boots at angles that weren’t proper (for some reason), and that by riding in walk mode I allowed myself to ride at more complementary lean angles. So today I tried to find out what those lean angles might be. Since UPZs have several fixed lean angles in locked mode, there should have been some combination of front and rear lean angles that would at least approximate yesterday’s faster/smoother/easier. No such luck. Then I switched to riding in walk mode again, and it started firing on all cylinders again. I realize that UPZs in lock mode aren’t completely locked due to the springs. One conclusion I might be able to draw from this would be that I’m not compressing the springs at all, and that the combo of boots and liners (Intuition Pro Tongue) are actually way too stiff for me. I’m 165 lbs and a moderately energetic rider. But I don’t think this is the case, I’ve popped buckles on the upper cuff out of the clasps during hard riding (had a buckle/clasp alignment issue that Dan Yoja at UPZ helped resolve). Another possible conclusion could be that my riding style left over from 15 years of riding ancient Raichle boots and old asym boards means I tend to use more travel than the stock UPZ spring mechanism allows. In which case a set of DGSS springs would do the trick. Or, it may be that my technique is still so bad that riding in walk mode damps out all the crap input that riding in locked mode passes through to the board. Does anyone else ride in walk mode? Does anyone other than proponents of EC style use the additional travel afforded by the DGSS setup? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hey JB I know it's been brought up in a thread before....did you do a search? In your test did you try locking the rear with some forward lean and leaving the front boot in walk mode?? I'm using BTS with blue springs on my Moss PQ60 for pow and carving and I've had the same thought/question about just using walk on front boot and lock mode on rear boot with my Deeluxe Track 325's I think one of the concerns is that the spring/resistance in walk mode can so easily be compressed it's like just going lock to lock and not giving any push back................but depending on what your riding and how you want to ride ....it could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Or, maybe in walk mode you're better able to use your legs as shock absorbers while having less effect on the board edge angle set by your feet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freezer Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Yeah, I think you've discovered a dirty little secret of carving: stiffer and harder isn't better. Or to be more precise, locking yourself into a relatively immobile body position with super stiff bindings and stiff, locked boots may work really well for a very narrow set of snow and trail conditions, but once you're out of those conditions because the pitch is different or the snow is too soft or hard or choppy, you're screwed. Riding with a relatively softer setup and/or in walk mode allows you a lot more flexibility in your body position to compensate for changing conditions. For most conditions in the west, I'll lock the front boot and leave the rear in walk mode. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 minutes ago, SunSurfer said: Or, maybe in walk mode you're better able to use your legs as shock absorbers while having less effect on the board edge angle set by your feet. That may be. The surface was pretty soft and choppy with Cascade cement underneath the last two days as well, previously that would have been no-fun riding. A hold-over from my skiing days is to drive everything from the bottom of my feet and ankles, and let everything above that sort itself out. I’ve had days while re-learning how to ride where it felt like I was driving the board with the boot cuffs and knees, and not providing any input with anything below that. At that point I stop, go into the lodge for a bit (anything to break the cycle), then ride for a few minutes with the boots really loose to move back down the skeletal chain (get back into using the feet/ankles). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 4 minutes ago, Freezer said: For most conditions in the west, I'll lock the front boot and leave the rear in walk mode. Thanks. I’m going to give that a shot next time I’m out. Today I went through 9 diff combos of front & rear lean, but always with both locked. Then just unlocked them both to test the “walk mode is what was working” hypothesis. Then my legs turned to mush, no more valid testing to be done that day. Only second time this season I’ve been able to get to ride two days in a row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slow Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I have discovered that on icy hard pack days I like unlocked and on softer conditions I lock both down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Do not ride with the front boot unlocked. Rear fine but do NOT ride with the front boot unlocked. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
billyt. Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Found that out by chance as well. I do keep the front boot locked at #3. Having the rear boot unlocked, lets me drive my rear knee down so body can get better position over the edge of board. Also has a lot to do with your boots and bindings too. Step ins hold your boot firmly in place and are rigid, while some others have more give? Glad that it is working for you. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 17 minutes ago, michael.a said: Do not ride with the front boot unlocked. Rear fine but do NOT ride with the front boot unlocked. Why? Risk of injury? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 I wonder why it's called Walk Mode ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 7 hours ago, barryj said: In your test did you try locking the rear with some forward lean and leaving the front boot in walk mode?? I do just the opposite. Using Deeluxe Track 225 boots in typical hard pack conditions, I always ride with my front boot locked and my rear boot in "powder mode". Powder mode on modern Deeluxe Track series allows more travel than locked, but not full travel you get in walk mode. Occasionally, I also ride my front boot in powder mode on very soft conditions, pow days, or in natural terrain, moguls, etc. When my front foot is locked, I get stronger better carves. On poorly groomed terrain, off piste, bumbs, etc., powder mode/walk mode offers an easier ride. I never liked the feel of my rear boot locked. I want more mobility. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 6 hours ago, jburk said: A hold-over from my skiing days is to drive everything from the bottom of my feet and ankles, and let everything above that sort itself out. That is a good thing! Keep experimenting with ride/walk mode. Also, you can wind the UPZ nuts apart or together to soften or stiffen (respectively) the springs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carvedog Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Hardly any body rides Burton Fires much but I accidentally started carving really hard while in walk mode and ended up the bottom of the cuff locked forward on the plastic that makes up the base. Hyperflexed you might say. My ankle survived without injury but it was so painful I had to take off the boot midslope and bloody my knuckles unjamming the overlapped plastic. 10/10 would not recommend. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladia Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 If I don't have spring system on the boots, I have been ridding unlocked for years on various boots. Head, Raichle, UPZ, Dynafit and Scarpa. Sometimes I feels like something is not right and I found I accidentally locked one boot. Spring systems give you limitation on movement when you are not on groomed runs. On steeps moguls and backcountry in general I like more movement in boots. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Chalk another one up for person preference. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 2 hours ago, jburk said: Why? Risk of injury? Very high risk of catastrophic injury. I know. You will stuff the nose or take a forward tumble one day, especially as a beginner or intermediate. And then your ankle is toast. Not worth it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 (edited) I have been riding mostly in walk mode for about 25 years (90% of the time on groomers). Up until several years ago, using old Burton Reactors which had very little spring dampening when locked, and more recently UPZ10's. I had been riding the Upz's (standard black tongues) in walk mode when it was about 10°F or colder (stiffness felt about right), and engaged the spring lock for more stiffness when it was warmer. I still felt I wanted more range of motion then the stock springs provided. After hearing all the warnings about risk of injury I installed DGSS last year and have been happy with it. The range of motion feels similar to walk mode. I like having the flexibility in all my joints to react to terrain changes. I also want my knees to last the rest of my life. Replacement parts ain't as good as the originals. I think the risk of injury in walk mode is likely greater with heavier riders. When I started riding I was 165lbs and could barely flex those old Reactors. Now I'm 20lbs heavier. Edited January 21, 2018 by bigwavedave Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Soooo... What's the difference between walk mode and a BTS system? (in terms of risk of injury) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ladia Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 Another reason for AT boots. They have forward lean hard stops inside the shells and walk/ ride mechanism on the back are rather massive to break and let you go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted January 21, 2018 Author Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 3 minutes ago, erazz said: Soooo... What's the difference between walk mode and a BTS system? (in terms of risk of injury) BTS, DGSS, similar systems all have a travel limit, can only flex so far. Walk mode limit of travel is when your shin touches your toes after the shell plastic explodes. Oww… 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 21, 2018 Report Share Posted January 21, 2018 47 minutes ago, erazz said: Soooo... What's the difference between walk mode and a BTS system? (in terms of risk of injury) 41 minutes ago, jburk said: BTS, DGSS, similar systems all have a travel limit, can only flex so far. Walk mode limit of travel is when your shin touches your toes after the shell plastic explodes. Oww… The BTS and DGSS allow a greater range of motion with an adjustable, motion dampening stiffness. End range of motion is mechanically limited both with the "ride" mode or add-on boot spring systems. This metal mechanical limit is still just anchored to plastic boot parts. Maybe it provides additional cushion from catastrophic failure in a crash. I think some riders can overpower and break just about anything. Better to have equipment breaking before body parts. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 17 hours ago, jburk said: riding in walk mode damps out all the crap input that riding in locked mode passes through to the board. With the spine locked/sprung, the front of the boot cuff acts as a lever, so when you flex your knees and ankles (as a means of moving pressure across the soles of your feet), you also (inadvertently) superimpose a leverage component. Riding in walk mode means you can flex your joints without also levering the board, which means you may not be creating as much junk to deal with on the output side of things. FYI, this principle also applies to skiing; both alpine and telemark. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) Are these always in walk mode? Edited January 22, 2018 by lonbordin Much love EB! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beckmann AG Posted January 22, 2018 Report Share Posted January 22, 2018 (edited) ^ I suppose not, on account of those being purpose built for riding, not walking. You might find this interesting (compulsory Booster strap omitted for clarity): As well as: Edited January 22, 2018 by Beckmann AG Implied content Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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