Mountain Slope .951

[Carvin' Marvin]

30 minutes ago, b.free said:

I believe you need 120. I know even lighter people who loves their 120s. Just play with the springs. I even ride them in pow and they are fine. Up to you man, best idea is to wear them all, ST and 120s, try for yourself and see what you like most.

Did you ride your upz with gray tongues and rcr cuffs? I’m not getting them from Bola so I won’t have an easy way to try on both unfortunately.   I know I weigh enough for the 120s I just hope they would fit my riding style.  I feel like either one would likely do the trick. Just trying to gather data 

[b.free]

4 minutes ago, Carvin' Marvin said:

Did you ride your upz with gray tongues and rcr cuffs? I’m not getting them from Bola so I won’t have an easy way to try on both unfortunately.   I know I weigh enough for the 120s I just hope they would fit my riding style.  I feel like either one would likely do the trick. Just trying to gather data 

I did man. I rode RCR UPZ before MS. I also have UPZ AT8 and they are like softies compare to MS. People say that ST(100) are exact copy of older NW .950. And if you get them, you can always change a tongue from 120 and get stiffer springs ( if you feel original too sort). However 120s are great as is.

[Carvin' Marvin]

Thanks for the info man. I’ve been on rc10s for a few seasons with the medium black tongue and plastic cut for flex. After riding this morning I really don’t think I want to be on anything stiffer. I’m going to get the 100s and mod stiffer if necessary. Will report back. 

[TLN]

I happen to have @b.free old boots. I've damaged grey tongue slightly, before I moved to .951. If you're still looking for grey cuffs and/or tongues - let me know.

[rst]

On 2/2/2022 at 11:12 AM, Carvin' Marvin said:

Thanks for the info man. I’ve been on rc10s for a few seasons with the medium black tongue and plastic cut for flex. After riding this morning I really don’t think I want to be on anything stiffer. I’m going to get the 100s and mod stiffer if necessary. Will report back. 

I suspect stiffness also depends on shell size (it comes from @Alexey's story "shell A vs B")

I'm 200 and got shell A RD after talking to Alexey; also I'm riding red springs which are far from being the stiffest

 

PS

RD maybe overkill; snow is too soft sometimes 

[Carvin' Marvin]

Got my boots in record time, Thanks Ivan! Would definitely recommend if he sells something you want.

Ended up going with the C Shell Standard 100 flex boots.  I am happy with the flex.  Ran through the blue springs and switched to red and happy with that.  Using zipfit gara HV liners.

Things I like: Fantastic boot shape, great fit right out of box.  Only 1 pressure point on the big toe that should be easy to manage.  The flex is very nice.  They ride real nice.  Everything is super easy to adjust and customize.  The buckles are nice and smooth.  Easily the best walking boots.  No more high-heel horse clopping to the lift.

Things that are fine but will take some getting used to: the decreased heel ramp compared to UPZ.  I am having to rework my stance again so that's some work.

Things I really don't like: The color.  God it's awful.  Granted my jacket shell is yellow too and two different yellows make for a funny look.  I really really don't like having to go back to bail bindings.  Where I live in Stepandclickistan, we are used to things happening at a certain speed and ease.  I have not won any olympic medals since switching over.

Overall it's not even a question about staying with the MS boots.  The fit and performance are fantastic.

Question: whats up with the nubs on top of the tongue where the cable crosses the tongue? The placement seems odd and the little notch in the middle is begging for explanation.  Notched to flex maybe?

[bigwavedave]

6 hours ago, Carvin' Marvin said:

Stepandclickistan

[ShortcutToMoncton]

So getting back into hard booting after 12 years of injuries and kids.

My last boots were those green Dalbello Kryptons from that mid-2000s phase, but they were heavily modded and blown out. Before that were Raichle AFs but I have a wider forefoot with narrower heel, and could never quite get them to fit properly despite boot fittings (always felt crammed in).

So I’m not far from YYZ Canuck and I see they have the deluxe Track 700/425. I’ve heard UPZ boots are pretty good but not sure where to get them. But these .951s are pretty much twice as expensive (not to mention no local support). Are they really that much better than UPZ/Deeluxe?

[lonbordin]

On 2/12/2022 at 11:44 AM, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Are they really that much better than UPZ/Deeluxe?

The 951 was on the vast majority of athletes feet in this past Olympics. 

They are a quality boot made with quality known plastics. (The other manufacturers don't even tell us what they use for plastic). 

(Important note! If you want step ins, UPZ and DeeLuxe are your only choices) 

DeeLuxe has little to no heel pocket in the shell. 

UPZ are reducing their number of buckles and how their tongue works in the latest Shells. 

Fit, if course, is the primary issue if you don't have access to a qualified boot fitter. 

I currently ride S5s but they have limited sizes (max 28.5).

IMHO, 951>S5>UPZ>DeeLuxe

Edited February 13, 2022 by lonbordin
Order to chaos, don't get me started on liners!

[slapos]

3 hours ago, lonbordin said:

 

UPZ are reducing their number of buckles and how their tongue works in the latest Shells. 

currently only in RCR boot - i had it in my hands and comapred to 951 they are much lighter - wonder if that might affect the overall performance of the boot. 

also the UPZ RCR with 4 buckles work so much better then my old RC10. most of the issues are fixed in terms of flex (finally it comes much from the spring, not from the tongue - just like in 951).

also the RCR spring box - finally offers stepless forward lean adjustment - still it is a worse construction then 951 spring mechanism in terms of adjusting the forward lean and changing the springs if needed.

I wouldnt be suprised if next year all UPZs are this design.

3 hours ago, lonbordin said:

IMHO, 951>S5>UPZ>DeeLuxe

Agree - if you are on a budget I would try getting on S5 - I had a very good experience with them - super quick to react ( @lonbordini am waving at you ;)) and they have much smaller ramp inside of the boot vs 951.

said that the price for being flat in the boot is the increased footprint vs 951 which has heel under heel design

With enough tinkering S5 could be quite an interesting options vs Deeluxe and UPZ.

if you want pro performance out of the box go for 951. 

 

There was a rumor so time ago that 951 are only great for racers - load of bollocks imho.

Perfect for carving too!

[lonbordin]

@ShortcutToMoncton

A couple of additional things I thought worth mentioning. 

I'm modifying my S5 spring system with a DGSS system. Many people modify their DeeLuxe boots with DGSS or BTS spring systems. Some people modify their UPZs with DGSS and do additional mods to the shells, cuff, and buckles. 

Everyone rides the 951s out of the box. I've yet to see any mods on the forums or the podium for the 951s. That says a lot to me. 

Also you mentioned vendor support. The 951 vendor has been responsive. Deeluxe and UPZ HQ never replied to my questions over the years. I wouldn't expect any support for S5s from my recent interactions.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Great points.
 

I’m really only interested in the S5 comparison because of the width comments…and ok the $300 difference too.
 

These .951s look awesome and the number of racers in orange at the Olympics backs that up. But without any way to try them on beforehand, to spend $1200 or more for the .951s and then possibly bootfitter work on top of that to blow them out, that’s pretty damn expensive!

Does anyone have any comparison of the forefoot width for .951/Deeluxe/UPZ/S5? Apologies if I missed it already, but I’m curious where the .951 lands.

[TLN]

On 2/12/2022 at 12:07 AM, Carvin' Marvin said:

The buckles are nice and smooth.  Easily the best walking boots.  No more high-heel horse clopping to the lift.

I'm not a fan on a heel strap, it's too short, and it's hard to buckle at first, Also that metal bar at the end is fairly easy to damage (i.e. bend)

On 2/13/2022 at 7:55 AM, lonbordin said:

UPZ are reducing their number of buckles and how their tongue works in the latest Shells. 

Got picture by any chance? 

 

[lonbordin]

9 minutes ago, TLN said:

Got picture by any chance? 

https://www.upz-boots.at/rcr
 

[rst]

1 hour ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Great points.
 

I’m really only interested in the S5 comparison because of the width comments…and ok the $300 difference too.
 

These .951s look awesome and the number of racers in orange at the Olympics backs that up. But without any way to try them on beforehand, to spend $1200 or more for the .951s and then possibly bootfitter work on top of that to blow them out, that’s pretty damn expensive!

Does anyone have any comparison of the forefoot width for .951/Deeluxe/UPZ/S5? Apologies if I missed it already, but I’m curious where the .951 lands.

I checked comparison to UPZs (some even tried to use their liners from their UPZs); checked Alexey's story; compared his feet measurements and mine and just did a leap of faith

 

PS

if was even more difficult since I decided to order one shell size down which means -1.5cm e.g. size 25.0 for 26.7 feet - not recommending for anyone; it's my [relatively narrow] feet and my way

Edited February 14, 2022 by rst

[lonbordin]

3 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Does anyone have any comparison of the forefoot width for .951/Deeluxe/UPZ/S5? Apologies if I missed it already, but I’m curious where the .951 lands.

Unfortunately, the manufacturer has not provided that information at this time.

Thanks to @yamifumi we know the B shell has a BSL of 272mm, I'm not aware of any other measurements.

@MountainSlope Would you be so kind to let us know the BSL of each of your shells and the approximate last width?

 

Edited February 14, 2022 by Jack M

[Jack M]

3 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Does anyone have any comparison of the forefoot width for .951/Deeluxe/UPZ/S5? Apologies if I missed it already, but I’m curious where the .951 lands.

With Deeluxe T700 and .951 I did not have to widen the forefoot.  I did have to have the forefoot widened on my UPZ RC10s.  Ask i-carve if they have a return policy for bad fit.  If they don't, at the very least the boots will be easy to sell.

[yamifumi]

On 2/11/2022 at 11:07 PM, Carvin' Marvin said:

Got my boots in record time, Thanks Ivan! Would definitely recommend if he sells something you want.

Ended up going with the C Shell Standard 100 flex boots.  I am happy with the flex.  Ran through the blue springs and switched to red and happy with that.  Using zipfit gara HV liners.

Things I like: Fantastic boot shape, great fit right out of box.  Only 1 pressure point on the big toe that should be easy to manage.  The flex is very nice.  They ride real nice.  Everything is super easy to adjust and customize.  The buckles are nice and smooth.  Easily the best walking boots.  No more high-heel horse clopping to the lift.

Things that are fine but will take some getting used to: the decreased heel ramp compared to UPZ.  I am having to rework my stance again so that's some work.

Things I really don't like: The color.  God it's awful.  Granted my jacket shell is yellow too and two different yellows make for a funny look.  I really really don't like having to go back to bail bindings.  Where I live in Stepandclickistan, we are used to things happening at a certain speed and ease.  I have not won any olympic medals since switching over.

Overall it's not even a question about staying with the MS boots.  The fit and performance are fantastic.

Question: whats up with the nubs on top of the tongue where the cable crosses the tongue? The placement seems odd and the little notch in the middle is begging for explanation.  Notched to flex maybe?

Welcome to the yellow boot gang @Carvin' Marvin!! I have been loving the boots and it is my 5th season on it. 
 

the notch in the middle helps to hold the longest cable in place without them coming together and create more “stretch” on the cable from my understanding.
 

Maybe that cable would have more stress if the notch wasn’t there? I would def get extra cable in the car Bc that’s the first thing that would give. One of the reason I got World Cup tongue (my boot is standard, 100 and got extra tongue from MS) is Bc I was flexing the tongue too much and the cable slipped from that notch which created awful noise. I got yellow and red spring (red with quite a bit of preload, someone has my yellow and hasn’t given back to me yet lol)

my set up:

-100 stiffness (standard)

- World Cup stiffness tongue on both boots

- yellow spring in the rear

- red spring with preload in the front

- booster strap

 

let me know if you have any questions:))

Edited February 15, 2022 by yamifumi

[Carvin' Marvin]

I got 3 days on them this week to work out the kinks, and oh have the kinks been worked out. Increased rear heel lift, decreased front toe lift to compensate for the difference in heel ramp. Yeah these boots are the truth.  Love them.  I didn't get any yellow springs.  Only red (stiff) and blue (soft). Using red on front and blue in rear with preload. 

Before they were tuned in I definitely felt like I was fighting the boots and board.  Now they are in the sweet spot and I'm back to riding through my feet.   

Love the flex of the 100s.  Very modifiable   I could definitely push the WC but I don't see the point in stiffer boots for my situation.

I've gotten over the loss of stepins.  I was running my bails way too loose at first so I tightened them up real nice and now they ride like a dream.  Puttin down the power now.  No drama, no slop. 

Whether or not they are worth the price difference is going to be very personal.  For me it is definitely worth it.  Everything else is starting to hurt so why would I want my feet to join that party? They are also super easy to tune which is a big plus.

@yamifumiwho is the contact for spare parts?  

[yamifumi]

@Carvin' Marvin

I have not gotten spare parts in a while but my contact was direct from MS. But Andrei had gotten from Ivan at Icarve and Allboard sports. 
 

Also you can play with spring stiffness from normal vendor online and cheaper, Eric from LCI had website to order from.

[inkaholic]

@Carvin' Marvin I strayed from the usual route for my .951s and did not get a Booster Strap.

I went with a new player to the game which has a dbl. strap. One for the liner and one for the shell. So far I really like it and can get things dialed in even better than with just the buckles and MS or Booster.

Check it out https://patriotfootbeds.com/products/trustraps-2-0 These fit absolutely perfectly with the cuff of the .951. The inner strap can be fed through the upper slots so it is inside the shell and the outer remains outside the shell. 

Patriot have vids and more info to learn more about their thinking behind the design and bootfitting in general.

ink

 

[lonbordin]

56 minutes ago, inkaholic said:

Check it out https://patriotfootbeds.com/products/trustraps-2-0 These fit absolutely perfectly with the cuff of the .951. The inner strap can be fed through the upper slots so it is inside the shell and the outer remains outside the shell. 

That reminds me of the "new" Atomic dual strap-
https://shop.atomic.com/en/products/professional-dual-strap-redster-m-l-ae0001712.html
 

[Mr.E]

Yeah, I have a list comparing MS with imperial and metric iso springs if you want. I've had no desire to change from the MS strap, but I can see the benefits of a Patriot inny/ outy. That atomic looks like it might be the ticket for softboot!

Also, last I checked All Board Sport had a decent selection of spare parts state side. They also have the MS boot bags in stock.

[b.free]

What's wrong with the original strap? it works perfectly with this boot. It hold everything in right position and the springs do their job. 

[inkaholic]

14 minutes ago, lonbordin said:

That reminds me of the "new" Atomic dual strap-
https://shop.atomic.com/en/products/professional-dual-strap-redster-m-l-ae0001712.html
 

The atomic one is definitely not the same having the two straps above and below. The Trustrap 2.0 are mounted together as one inner and outer strap. Cool though, that more companies are looking into the benefits of the top strap and innovating new ideas.

 

1 minute ago, b.free said:

What's wrong with the original strap? it works perfectly with this boot. It hold everything in right position and the springs do their job. 

Nothing "wrong" with the original, just another option for personal preference and customization of fit.

ink