SunSurfer Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 1 hour ago, Beckmann AG said: UPZ is +/- 12. Can confirm. I measured up an X-ray of a UPZ boot with foot inside. Ramp angle measured @ 11 degrees. Posted elsewhere on ASB. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/11/2020 at 9:45 AM, Beckmann AG said: I realize my shop is remote, but not that remote... Maybe he likes to drive there via the riverbed? Also the lack of cell service creates the illusion you are more remote than you actually are... Thanks for the photos @Beckmann AG Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 13, 2020 Report Share Posted January 13, 2020 On 1/12/2020 at 9:43 PM, rjnakata said: Thank you for anther great review! Would you say the sole length is the same for both 951 and UPZ? Is the 951 longer per size? Had to shorten my bindings 3-4mm going from m28 UPZ's to c shell .951's. Had to lengthen my heel bails (sidewinders) one turn on the lugs to allow the boot heel to capture easier. Took one run on them a couple of days ago and it was obvious I had some tweaking to do, like getting rid of the very slight outward cant I was running (50° cant/54° binding). Just felt like I was bowlegged. Guess I shoulda carpet surfed first. Based on Beckman's measurements, I wonder if that means that UPZ's have even more inward cant? Gonna try no cant and keep lift at 6° front and 3° rear as before with the UPZ's. I ordered a variety of springs from McMaster to play with. I like a softer flex. Did a "sauna" heat mold last night. Feels good on the carpet. I found with UPZ's the liners were swimming around inside the shell, so I now like molding a heated liner to a heated shell. These liners were pretty comfy from the start, so just a minimal molding. Really liked my UPZ's with wrap liners and dgss springs, but the plastic got noticeably stiffer in cold weather. I also like that the .951's feel taller on my calf. More like my old Reactors. Oh, and Rubber Soul...great album and makes walking easier. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 14, 2020 Report Share Posted January 14, 2020 Does anyone now the stock spring rate for their red? I inquired about trying some different springs. Shipping is prohibitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 I ordered from the menu below at Mcmaster-Carr for 16mm diameter springs. 38mm for the long (toeside) and 25mm short. Looks like the same color-coded springs. Hope I measured correctly. I'll find out Thursday. I ordered 6 springs, $7 shipping, $26 total. https://www.mcmaster.com/springs Metric color coded die springs: https://www.mcmaster.com/springs/spring-type~die/for-hole-diameter~16mm/ 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 15, 2020 Report Share Posted January 15, 2020 Sounds right, and the colors match the soft/ medium/ hard iso colors MS uses. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Received the Mcmaster springs mentioned above and they fit fine. I'm mounted up with green (soft), I like my boots flexy. (I have the .951's, not WC) Rode in -10°F today and the plastic didn't stiffen up like my UPZ's did in that weather. After 4 hrs in them today, I pretty much agree with what everyone has said. I'm keeping them. Thanks @jburrill I spot molded the heel of the liner to get a better heel pocket. Now they feel one with my feet. Very comfy. My only complaints are that getting in & out is painful as the plastic cuts into the dorsum of my foot (high instep?), plus it takes me a bit of fidgeting to get that liner tongue seated properly under the plastic shell. I suppose a wrap liner would be the fix, or maybe putting the liner on first--ZipFit style. I like the stiffer lateral flex, higher cuffs, easy walking rubber soles that don't seem to clog with snow, and seem to be a friendlier interface on the metal toe & heel blocks of sidewinders. I don't feel the need for any aftermarket bts--they have a nice smooth flex, more ROM than the stock UPZ's. (they are harder to drive in though, especially a stick) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 In my experience with the Roxa tongue liner, it would have been impossible for me to use them regularly with how hard it was to get my foot in and out. I have a flat, low volume foot that is pretty non-flexible. An Intuition wrap liner made them relatively easy to get in and out. Out of curiosity, what do you weight, and are you bottoming out the greens? I'd like a hair softer boot, will probably try some reds and maybe blues (I'm 205lbs in the WC, recreational rider). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 (edited) Oh, and 16mmx 38mm is 5/8" x 1.5" if anyone is looking. Doing some quick math, it looks like blue metric is a touch softer than blue imperial, and red imperial is a touch softer than red metric. RM(221 lbs/in)->RI(190lbs/in)->BI(108lbs/in)->BM(104lbs/in) Greens are not comparable- Green Metric is extra light, and Green Imp. is extra heavy. Edited January 17, 2020 by Mr.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lonbordin Posted January 17, 2020 Report Share Posted January 17, 2020 Hey can someone post pictures of the stock liners? Thanks! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 17 hours ago, Mr.E said: An Intuition wrap liner made them relatively easy to get in and out. Out of curiosity, what do you weight, and are you bottoming out the greens? I'd like a hair softer boot, will probably try some reds and maybe blues (I'm 205lbs in the WC, recreational rider). Maybe I'll try the Intuition wraps from my UPZ's. I'm about 185lbs. I have not bottomed out the green springs, so far. I also haven't ridden very hard as I am nursing a knee injury. Carving on relatively gentle slopes on one very cold day with them so far. The flex felt perfect for me. We'll see if the flex is any softer in warmer conditions. So far, the flex with this MS set-up felt similar to my UPZ set-up. I do like flexy boots though, and for the past few years I have been using green (softest) springs in DGSS and UPZ boots with black tongues and Intuition Alpine wraps. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 3 hours ago, lonbordin said: Hey can someone post pictures of the stock liners? Thanks! With my red custom orthotic 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamifumi Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) 20 hours ago, Mr.E said: Out of curiosity, what do you weight, and are you bottoming out the greens? I'd like a hair softer boot, will probably try some reds and maybe blues (I'm 205lbs in the WC, recreational rider). I have Blue, red, yellow springs for my .951 and I weight 155lbs. I am bottoming out on Blue on rear boot. When boot flex too much forward, the middle strap slips from the “hook” tongue has to securethe strap in place and it makes a “concerning pop noise”. I use yellow on hard days and red on soft days for rear foot and red on front boots. Edited January 18, 2020 by yamifumi 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 My liners look different... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Roxa liner was the first liner they used. I couldn't use them. I found them extremely uncomfortable. I use 951 with zipfit liners now and I could not be more happy 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Anyone know what the current liner comes with MS .951? Jack seems to have good experience with it. Those liner seems to be heat moldable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 (edited) I have the Roxa shown, but the new stock I believe is all what Jack is running. Good info on springs. I ordered a few industrial die springs and will report back good or bad. On the GS boards and good snow the red is just find for me. I imagine the Imperial red's I ordered at a touch softer will be better for me all around. I'm on the WC version, for what that's worth. Edited January 18, 2020 by Mr.E Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
yamifumi Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 1 hour ago, bigwavedave said: My liners look different... Like slapos was saying, that’s the first liner it came with and it was junk. I now have intuition tongue liners with custom insole. I cut out some of the tongue portion of it as I had pressure point. I love my .951 and it is THE best boots I have tried (Burton fire -> deluxe Indy -> UPZ RC10 -> .961) and I don’t see myself selling this boots at all. Gonna use it until it breaks. I would recommend getting extra straps (especially ankle one) for back ups as this will probably the first one to break. Procuring straps from mountain slope takes a bit (from swiss) hence I got extra straps just in case. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted January 18, 2020 Report Share Posted January 18, 2020 Right, my liners are stock, with the snazzy matching pull loops. They are heat moldable. I’m loving them. I agree with @yamifumi, best boots yet. Burton MGX, Lange X09, Nordica Grand Prix, Burton Fire (x2), Deeluxe T700 (x2), UPZ RC10, MS .951. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 6 hours ago, slapos said: Roxa liner was the first liner they used. I couldn't use them. I found them extremely uncomfortable. I use 951 with zipfit liners now and I could not be more happy For future reference, which ZipFits did you find work well with the .951. Once my feet are in, the Roxa liners are very comfy, with good heel hold since I heat molded them. Getting in & out is painful and I may tire of that, or...maybe I'll just leave them on Of course, I rode UPZ's with the stock liners for 1½ years before they all of a sudden became unbearable. Putting Alpine wraps in them was a revelation in how much control I was missing! Maybe I'll have the same experience with these, but for now they seem to be working as well or better than my old set-up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slapos Posted January 19, 2020 Report Share Posted January 19, 2020 I have grand Prix with sidewinder. Mind you I use heated boot bag night before snowboarding. So I kind of mold the zipfits before each ride. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 Day off from riding today and doing some amateur boot analysis for anyone interested...in the name of carving pseudoscience... A second day in the Roxa liners and I was feeling a pressure point on the dorsum of the foot, the place where it's hard to get the tongue to seat completely under that "robust" lower shell. It's the same place that hurts the top of my foot when slipping into the boot. It's probably the part that makes for good heel hold down. It's narrower at that point than the UPZ's. So, I tried Intuition Alpine wraps (from my UPZ's) in the .951 and they were very tight in the forefoot. Would need serious re-molding and I doubted it would work. I have some lightly used Intuition Luxury liners (lace-up tongue) in some old 423 Raichles. I can lace these up on my foot before inserting into the shell (ZipFit method) avoiding the discomfort of the tight spot pinching into the dorsum of my foot. I did a "sauna heat mold" and tried them out. I've had two days with this combination and it seems to be a very good fit so far, better than the Roxa. I saw Intuitions (Luxury or Dream tongue liners) in several .951 WC boots at the Buck Hill RTTC races in Dec. maybe they know what they're doing? The luxury is about 3/4" shorter than the Roxa behind the calf. Can someone post a picture of their Zipfits in the .951's, showing the height above the cuff? @slapos? UPZ with Alpine wrap on left, .951 with Luxury on right... PSA***After just a few days of riding I found one of the cant disc screws about ½ out (front boot)*** Maybe the PO had these out? They all have thread lock now. **I'm also getting a clicking noise from the rear boot springs. I have about 1/2" forward lean in the rear boot. I get a click even with very slight forward pressure on the cuff--not from bottoming out the spring. May be catching on the plastic housing? Everything seems to be working okay while riding, so?...hope it's just a distracting noise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mr.E Posted January 23, 2020 Report Share Posted January 23, 2020 My Intuition wraps are basically the same height. It took me a solid 20min and a boat load of pain to get my foot in with the Roxa. The wrap, when molded, gave me plenty of toe room, relieved all the pressure on the top of my foot and still maintained fantastic heel hold. All of that said, I'll probably upgrade to the taller Intuition SBR wraps when I pack these out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pow4ever Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 So much gold/great information here! @bigwavedave what is the Sauna molding method? sounds very soothing/relaxing lol! Is it zipfit/rice cooker and just steam the shell? @Jack M how did you mold the stock liner? DIY oven or at a shop? What temperature/how long if DIY? Do you use toe cap? Any link/video/tutorial would be great! thank you all trail blazer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted February 1, 2020 Report Share Posted February 1, 2020 23 hours ago, pow4ever said: So much gold/great information here! @bigwavedave what is the Sauna molding method? sounds very soothing/relaxing lol! Is it zipfit/rice cooker and just steam the shell? thank you all trail blazer! Kind of a joke, but it actually works pretty well....two birds with one stone....Fire up the sauna, liners and shells on a shelf near stove, maybe a hot rice sock in the liner for any hot spots, mold boots, then take sauna. Using the Zipfit shell heating method combined with the hot-rice-sock method to mold Intuition wraps to my UPZ's convinced me that molding the liner to both your feet and the shell helped everything become as one...and only then did I become one with the carve. Never realized that I had movement between my liner and shell, until I didn't anymore, and found I had had a new level of control. RE: Adjustments to binding set-up going from UPZ's to MS .951. When Jack said he was comfortable with the same 6° front and 3° rear set-up he had with UPZ's, I followed his lead, although I didn't like narrowing my stance. Today I went out with 6° front and rear, (toe & heel lift respectively), essentially duplicating the cant+ramp angles I was used to with UPZ. Everything felt much better! I always find it funny how such little changes can make such a big difference. After 25+ years of hardbooting, I think I'm finally getting my stance dialed in!...until next year, when something feels a little off and I start tinkering again. **edit** Tried 3° front and 6° rear (same set-up I used with Deluxe T700 & Reactor/Furnace, prior to UPZ's). 6° front & rear definitely works better for me with the .951's--feels like home now 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.