Mountain Slope .951

[Mr.E]

1 minute ago, inkaholic said:

The atomic one is definitely not the same having the two straps above and below. The Trustrap 2.0 are mounted together as one inner and outer strap. Cool though, that more companies are looking into the benefits of the top strap and innovating new ideas.

 

Nothing "wrong" with the original, just another option for personal preference and customization of fit.

ink

Ink, if you end up wanting to sell those MS ones, holler. 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

So for all the complainers out there—today for the first time in 12 years I dusted off my heavily modded 2007 Dalbello Krypton Pros and my almost-still-new backup intuition liner (not baked, whoops) and spent 4 hours in hard boots. Like riding a bike!!

Shockingly, the Krypton’s actually work pretty OK, although they don’t quite flex like a snowboard boot and are pretty damn stiff. (And my front one might have a bit too much lean—my front quad is toast). But oh man do my feet hurt. I finally need a pair of decent snowboard boots. 

I know this might be the wrong place to ask, but it sounds like most people consider these .951s to be the most comfy out-of-box boots they’ve tried? Has anyone had a different experience? 

[Mr.E]

26 minutes ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

 

Mine came with the first gen liner and were unbearable out of the box. Had I not thrown another liner on while trying them I wouldn't have purchased them. I went straight from the shop to a boot fitter and had insoles and new liners done. And they have been great since then.

I do know a slightly shorter and significantly lighter rider who prefers the old shorter cuff Northwave used in the A size to the taller cuff MS uses in that shell.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Got it, will definitely avoid the first-gen liner. In reading this thread I think a couple people mentioned that problem but having no issues with the second version. 

[MountainSlope]

On 3/6/2022 at 2:16 PM, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Got it, will definitely avoid the first-gen liner. In reading this thread I think a couple people mentioned that problem but having no issues with the second version. 

That's right. Our first liner is good for people with narrow feet. The newer liners are roomier and have additional spacers included for better fitting. All of our liners are thermo liners which can be heated for inproved fitting. The first liner was only used for the very first boot in season 2018.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Thanks for replying! I have smaller feet but wide forefoot so will definitely need that newer liner.  When it comes to hard boots I wish there was a way to try them on first, but I know that’s the niche world we live in! Now to figure out if this is a spring or fall outlay….I have too many expensive hobbies 

[slabber]

4 minutes ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Thanks for replying! I have smaller feet but wide forefoot so will definitely need that newer liner.  When it comes to hard boots I wish there was a way to try them on first, but I know that’s the niche world we live in! Now to figure out if this is a spring or fall outlay….I have too many expensive hobbies 

If i understand correctly, the CDN distributor is near Montreal.  Maybe coordinate with a trip so you can try them on.  Agreed that trying to purchase footwear online is terrible if you don't already know the correct sizing, particularly in something as critical as alpine boots.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Whoa, I had no idea there was a Canadian distributor! I’ll look that up. 

[Colozeus]

can anyone with B shells measure the outside cuff height from floor to the top of the plastic in the back? I'm currently in a size c shell but i'm short and i have massive calves and debating going with a b shell next season. 

[pow4ever]

On 4/7/2022 at 5:08 PM, Colozeus said:

can anyone with B shells measure the outside cuff height from floor to the top of the plastic in the back? I'm currently in a size c shell but i'm short and i have massive calves and debating going with a b shell next season. 

what do you need to measure?  I do have shell B size.  take a picture on how you want to measure and i should be able to mimic.

[pow4ever]

How does everyone center/dial in these boots on the binding?  
the center mark on the boot isn't true center.
If we center by the middle of the foot in the boot; it's often too much forward.
So far i ride by the boot center mark as a starting point.  it seems ok.  
How does one dial it in?  thoughts/logic?

I am not a smart man so detail picture is greatly appreciated

trying to figure it out from the video/frame grab

 

 

[MountainSlope]

@pow4ever The center mark on the boot is your foot center. The mark should be at the center of the binding. First, the boot position on the binding needs to be set correctly. Then afterwards, you will need to find the correct binding position on the board. 

[TLN]

On 3/5/2022 at 3:56 PM, ShortcutToMoncton said:

I know this might be the wrong place to ask, but it sounds like most people consider these .951s to be the most comfy out-of-box boots they’ve tried? Has anyone had a different experience? 

I was crying on first attempts with 951. Was way worse that UPZ. Then next day I got custom insoles and only did 2 or 3 runs. Even worse. After that I tied insoles and not - same idea, but eventually it got a bit better.  That all was in Colorado on my first trip this season

I think it all improved by adding heel lift on my backfoot and after 2 days on local resort and adding stiff sprig I can finally ride it. Still need some work tho.

[pow4ever]

For me: it was not comfortable out of the box.  However the plastic is great to work with (grind very well).
Lots of hot spots but i got weird feet (same for all the hardboot model i try).
wide front foot, narrow heel and big calf, Morton's toe(shape of the foot that is characterized by the second toe of the foot being the longest)
length/volume wise i am good but width is way too narrow.
After extensive boot fitting + custom insole + aftermarket liner:  i think i am now at the starting point of what most people start with.   not quite slipper but no more tear.

ref:
Morton's foot affects approximately 22% of the population. This is in contrast to 69% of the population with Egyptian foot, which is characterized by the big toe being the longest.

[pow4ever]

@MountainSlope Thank you.   That's what i am starting with(center mark). 

From talking to people and this thread (see below):  there might be further optimization/biased can be done (likely more personal preferences).

On 2/5/2020 at 4:31 AM, slapos said:

he said that the mark on the boot is nowhere where he would like it to be.

That the center of the actual foot is is further then the center line on his original northwave boot

my advice to all 951/UPZ users is to try and see for themselves.

On 2/5/2020 at 2:16 AM, slapos said:

hi pow4ever,

mountain slope recommends using the line on the boot for centring on the binding see this article:

https://www.mountain-slope.com/schuh-und-bindungseinstellung/

However, when I was on the SG Carve camp i had a discussion with Sigi about centering the boots on the binding and he said something that blew my mind.

He said that with all the boots that have heel under heel design (Northwave, Mountain Slope, UPZ) he moves the whole front binding 1 cm to the toeside edge.

I tried doing something similar but only with the moving the bails on f2 bindings and the results so far have been very good.

Regards

 

[TVR]

My son moved up to FIS racing this year and therefore moved up to the .951 boots.

Some takeaways:

Mike went from UPZ RC10 to .951 boots. His UPZs were good for heel hold, but needed to be ridiculously tight to accomplish this. The .951 boots out of the box with stock liners had good heel hold, but almost brought him to tears at the bottom of each run. They were not strapped as tight, but the liners were not comfortable for him.

To solve this, Mike went to a boot fitter and put in molded, injected liners. With these, he goes several runs with 'racers' comfort, and no longer needs to unbuckle them between runs. (He still does every other run to extend his day as a 'just in case' type deal). His heel hold seems to be superior and his times seem to have improved. Like some other comments, maybe these with stock liners are not for wider feet. 

The low profile rear spring seems to be stronger and better built than the stock UPZ springs. I would rate these, so far, to being equally as strong as even the DGSS system. The UPZs have plastic holding and what the forward spring pushed against, and Mike has broken his boots in the past by pulling the spring through that plastic. The low profile on the .951 boots seems to not have this weak spot. They seem to flex smoothly, and are strong. Build quality seems great, as my son is extremely hard on equipment and these work well for him. 

Overall, these are (obviously by watching higher end competitions) the choice for racing. Although I would say the stock liners may not work with all foot types (They certainly did not work with my sons feet) getting new molded injected liners solve for this and are worth the time and moneys. I am not sure for the recreational carver, but seeing how these have helped my son, and now with his comfort level at a point where he can be in these all day, I would see these as something that could help the recreational carver get to that point where they want to be. 

Hope this helps.
 

[Jack M]

1 hour ago, TVR said:

Like some other comments, maybe these with stock liners are not for wider feet. 

Feet are weird.  For me in the UPZ 28-28.5 (312mm) shell, I had to have them stretched for width twice and I still had to unbuckle them every run.  I haven't had to modify my MS World Cup 27-28 (size C) shells at all and I got over 100 days in the stock liners.  YMMV.  I think I have average to wide feet (and as I've just learned, Egyptian).

@pow4ever I did have to adjust the lateral canting of my TD3s to make the MS's comfortable.  The MS's are laterally the stiffest boots I've tried, so they are intolerant of wrong canting.   I also had to run the booster strap inside the plastic tongue to prevent the liner tongue from twisting out of place.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

5 hours ago, pow4ever said:

For me: it was not comfortable out of the box.  However the plastic is great to work with (grind very well).
Lots of hot spots but i got weird feet (same for all the hardboot model i try).
wide front foot, narrow heel and big calf, Morton's toe(shape of the foot that is characterized by the second toe of the foot being the longest)
length/volume wise i am good but width is way too narrow.
After extensive boot fitting + custom insole + aftermarket liner:  i think i am now at the starting point of what most people start with.   not quite slipper but no more tear.

ref:
Morton's foot affects approximately 22% of the population. This is in contrast to 69% of the population with Egyptian foot, which is characterized by the big toe being the longest.

Look you are free to try and justify your own physical inadequacies any way you need to….but now I really need to know what kind of freak shows are in the other 9%! All the same length? Little toe largest?? Six toes??? 

Boot feedback is always confusing and frustrating—I’m also a narrow heel, big calves and wide forefoot guy with a high arch, although my toes all properly go from biggest to smallest—but then you have Jack over here saying that his UPZes needed to be punched wider in comparison. 

Guess I’m rolling the dice and crossing my perfect-length toes…

[pow4ever]

2 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Look you are free to try and justify your own physical inadequacies any way you need to….but now I really need to know what kind of freak shows are in the other 9%! All the same length? Little toe largest?? Six toes??? 

Boot feedback is always confusing and frustrating—I’m also a narrow heel, big calves and wide forefoot guy with a high arch, although my toes all properly go from biggest to smallest—but then you have Jack over here saying that his UPZes needed to be punched wider in comparison. 

Guess I’m rolling the dice and crossing my perfect-length toes…

LNI

i echo @TVR's sentiment.  These are worth it*
*If you are strong/bigger rider and like laterally stiffness.
Good thing there are different flex version now.

My point is if i can make it work for my weird/busted feet.  You should be able to make it work.
Budget extra $$ for liner, boot fitter.  Try the stock liner/fit and go from there.
Don't be like me try to save money and hopping that the boot will break my foot in.

 

 

[Chouinard]

As I read this thread I am experiencing transient pain on the top inside of my arch exactly where I overclamp my T700’s.

I like my T700’s but appear to be crushing my feet.

Anyone using a Palau wrap liners in their Mountain Slopes?

@MountainSlopeany plans for a step-in?

[Jack M]

11 hours ago, Chouinard said:

I like my T700’s but appear to be crushing my feet.

Anyone using a Palau wrap liners in their Mountain Slopes?

 

Sounds like you are crushing your foot to try to eliminate the heel lift that T700s are infamous for with many people.  MS or UPZ will cure that.  Well worth upgrading for this alone.

I am using Intuition (I believe same molding material as Palau) Plug Wrap liners in my MS World Cups.  I also liked the stock liners and got about 100 days out of them.  The Plug wrap is a thinner "low volume" liner which I need because my foot size is right at the end of the C shell size.  This is a great fit for me.  

[Chouinard]

Which model closely matches the T700? 100, 120, 130?

[pow4ever]

19 hours ago, Chouinard said:

Which model closely matches the T700? 100, 120, 130?

with in the ms951 line:  it's the same shape/boot just different plastic stiffness.  One can modify the flex some what with tongue, bladder, springs.
100 - softest
120 - medium (i have this one)
130 - stiff

i would guess the 100 would be a good place to start.
I know the track700 flex well and MS951(!20) is stiffer laterally than the Deeluxe. 

My track700 never stiff to me since new and now it's getting long in the tooth; it feel down right squishy.

 

 

[Chouinard]

@Jack M @pow4ever thanks for feedback. Not looking to iterate thru boots. Hoping for some more feedback before pulling the trigger on new boots which will force me to revise my bindings from current step in. 
 

Wondering if less rigid bails will offset stiffer lateral flex?

Edited July 18, 2022 by Chouinard
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[pow4ever]

with 951 we can only use standard binding for now.
by going from step-in to standard binding.
You will gain some "play/flex".
More play/flex(more travel) mean a more damping ride but at expense of responsiveness.
Suspension is mostly personal preference.  
That delay effect could be a good thing(filter out unwanted input from driver) or it could be a bad thing.
F1 racing suspension is stiff compare to baja 500.  each is tune for different application.

seems many people took the same journey:
Deluxe -> UPZ -> MS951
many are happy with UPZ.
if you are getting heel lift with Track700; UPZ is a great option.
Plus step in is an option and it's easy to offload if you don't like them.
This way we change less things and can focus more on technique.

speaking for myself:
It's mimetic desired (theory by René Girard) that we think the next piece of equipment(monkey see monkey do) we procure will be the things we need to get us to the next level.

That didn't happen for me.   I almost rage quit last season after dropping way too much money on boots/liner/boards and not getting the result i wanted.
I had to reset expectations and start working on the fundamental to get me back on track.
That's when the changing in equipment/dial-in setup start making sense.

I developed some funky-ness in my heel side(transition from toe to heel).  there is some delay/hesitation.  I was blaming Contra shape.  track show it very clearly
heel to toe - clean pencil line
toe to heel - it fan out/squirrelly; once board is back on edge it's fine.

went from F2 back to TD3 STD; track700 to ms951 and bunch of technique refinement. 
Now it feel like carving again.  i am sure next season is going to be sh!tshow all over but at least it got me stick with alpine for a bit longer.  still dream about the last few run on the lift just admiring my own track.
Nice/tight turns.

Point being - it's not just ms951 (the lateral stiff is what i need in this context).  i was able to make those turn before (but i couldn't tell how i was doing it). 

overtime/this time:  i feel i can articulate it better.   One need to developed that sense of "good" vs "no so good" feel first before start tweaking the setup.  i am far from dial-in but i have some reference point/mental model that i can go back to.

TLDR:
I would work on the technique first before change boots.
exception is that If you are getting heel lift in 700; try UPZ first.
What a mind job for me is that bad technique can also cause heel lift....
When i was ridding well:  boots usually fit perfect.  when i wasn't riding well; there are hotspot/heel lift all sort of fitting problem.

apology for thoughts diarrhea in advance.