Mountain Slope .951

[Jack M]

@ChouinardI guess I would say that you can make the standard (100) flex boots stiffer with aftermarket tongues and springs, but you can’t make the World Cup (120) boots softer without cutting plastic, and that seems icky to me. Relying on binding flex also doesn’t seem like a good idea to me because then the roll axis is under your foot, instead of naturally at your ankles. Also I’d be nervous about breaking bails. 

[slapos]

i had 100 stiffness and now i have 120 WC.

Springs have the biggest impact on the stiffness of this boot in the forward lean area.

I didnt notice huge difference between the 100 and 120, however this maybe due to my zipfit liner with sidewinder that I have carried over.

had UPZ before 951 - they are good, but they there is still a difference between 951 and UPZ. Last season UPZ had released a new RCR model that finally has a design, that is taking a lot from 951 - https://www.upz-boots.at/rcr

If i was to buy boots right now, I would definitely look at 951 and UPZ RCR only @Chouinard

T700 is quite a stiff boot, but given the ability to adjust flex in 951 or RCR i wouldnt worry that much about it. 

Choose based on your foot shape, size and the shell that fits your foot most closely.

Liner fit is just as important as the shell itself.

 

[Chouinard]

@Jack M points well taken. Questioning if the stiffer lateral flex is offset by a more compliant bail vs. stiffer flex coupled with rigid step-in.

@pow4ever I’m not looking for the boots to improve my technique rather trying to stop crushing my feet with the ankle buckle…I actually like the T700’s otherwise.

@slapos  thanks for feedback. 
 

i need to make a decision soon so I’m ready sooner than later. 

[dhamann]

On 7/20/2022 at 10:55 PM, Chouinard said:

I’m not looking for the boots to improve my technique rather trying to stop crushing my feet with the ankle buckle…

On 7/20/2022 at 10:55 PM, Chouinard said:

Questioning if the stiffer lateral flex is offset by a more compliant bail vs. stiffer flex coupled with rigid step-in.

On 7/18/2022 at 6:59 PM, Chouinard said:

Wondering if less rigid bails will offset stiffer lateral flex?

geeking out on UPZ. T700 has a wider fore foot, similar to UPZ.

XC12 (110 special flex tongue) and RC12 (120 tongue) have similar cuff, so lateral flex is pretty much the same. RC12 is race oriented where the XC12 if free carve oriented and with softer lower boot shell. RCR (special flex tongue 130+?) is full on race oriented with an even stiffer upper cuff, lower boot shell, spoiler, etc.. Tongues are easiest way to alter flex, but springs help some.

i've never ridden step-ins but comparing two less rigid bail bindings (F2 titanium and TD3 sidewinders) both allow for some lateral movement; not necessarily "flex" but forgiveness. i tested TD3 standards this past season which lock the boot a lot more while providing less lateral movement in the connection of the boot/binding. i liked this a lot while riding T325's w/ BTS blue top/yellow bottom springs that are less stiff than a T700. a stiffer and more rigid of boot/binding combo involves a more challenging ride, but also begs for further aggressiveness, precision and keeping things interesting. flex or adjustability within the intended engineered equipment, movement/play and forgiveness can be personal. IMO less rigid bails would offset a stiff lateral flexing boot. however, would it act like two things working against each other while creating more fatigue? depends what you're looking for and if you're set on riding step-ins than i would think a slightly more forgiving boot would offset that. i believe F2 CNC and SG bail bindings have a more rigid hold than F2 titaniums. i've heard the SG's hold similar to td3 standards. idk

some folks need to unbuckle boots at least at lower buckles while getting on the lift because of cranking down for foot hold, heel hold or whatever the case may be. this seems to be less likely with the MS boots. however, when i watch WC racing i see many riders unbuckling. for most of us, our daily riding needs won't require riding a boot two sizes too small and/or riding such a tight fitting responsive boot.

we all have different feet, tastes, styles and preferences. seeking out feedback and getting others points of view may or may not help in your decision of what's best. then there's the boards. what kind of boards to you prefer to ride? good luck with your decision @Chouinard

cheers

[Chouinard]

Boots arrived yesterday. 

Toe box is bigger than T700's that I had to punch out.

Similar issue to T700's in the calf area...can only buckle at the end position. I am going to heat mold the liner to see if the tongue spreads out and relieves some of the pressure on my shin. I tried my Palau 141's but they are very snug and would need to be molded.

Definitely eliminated the T700 instep pressure.

[Chouinard]

On 2/1/2022 at 9:06 AM, bigwavedave said:

I'm using large F2 race titaniums. Not sure if one could also use Mediums.

Do you have the back slide all the way forward to center the boot on the binding?

[b.free]

Btw, if anyone wondering, D shell can fit M F2s bindings.

[slapos]

9 minutes ago, b.free said:

Btw, if anyone wondering, D shell can fit M F2s bindings.

with boot centered on the binding? pix?

[bigwavedave]

2 hours ago, Chouinard said:

Do you have the back slide all the way forward to center the boot on the binding?

Although I spoke to Chouinard on the phone, I'll post my answer here too.  I center the boot on the board with the heel and toe equidistant from the edge, (I disregard the center marking of the boot & binding.). I use a carpenter's square to check that there is no overhang on my rear foot. I then set the front with the amount of splay I desire (~5°). Sometimes it might be necessary to turn the center disc 90° in order move the binding side to side get things where you want them. 

Also, especially with brand new F2 race titaniums fitted to MS boots, make sure that the boot sole is seated all the way down on the heel block when clipped in. It's a tight fit. I learned this from experience when I mounted new F2's on a new board in a hurry on a powder day. I got half way down the hill when first one and then the other foot came out. Felt like I was pushed out of a plane without a parachute. Think quick!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

On 11/17/2022 at 12:13 PM, Chouinard said:

Boots arrived yesterday. 

Toe box is bigger than T700's that I had to punch out.

Similar issue to T700's in the calf area...can only buckle at the end position. I am going to heat mold the liner to see if the tongue spreads out and relieves some of the pressure on my shin. I tried my Palau 141's but they are very snug and would need to be molded.

Definitely eliminated the T700 instep pressure.

What stiffness did you get? Flex impression vs T700s?

[Chouinard]

After talking to Mountain Slope I bought the WC120. I have not had a chance to try them out on a board due to lack of snow.

[Jack M]

A friend with bunions got his punched out… good to know this is possible!

[Jarcode]

@Jack M I got mine significantly blown out along the entire 5th metatarsal, particularly on my right foot. It looks a little lopsided now but I'm quite happy with the results. Seems like any good bootfitter with experience working with grilamid has no issues with this shell (lots of heat needed though).

@ShortcutToMoncton since I moved to .951s (130RD, m28/C) from my T700s (m28), here's my thoughts:

• Massive increase in lateral stiffness. The T700 shells are significantly higher volume and unless you have a really bulky foot, the "play" in the liner from those shells makes for a far less responsive ride than the .951s.
   
• Forward/backward flex feels slightly softer with the yellow springs. I had blue BTS on my T700s, also rode them locked for years. The .951s have a more "linear" flex since the tongue isn't doing much in those shells, whereas the T700s have a stiff hinge and a tongue that is constantly resisting forward flex. Very different feel.
   
• The toebox in the T700 is actually much larger. The issue with the T700 is that the stock liners are so high volume that you're loosing a lot of forefoot space until you either swap for a different liner or punch the shell.
   
• The Race Department model is probably overkill for the vast majority of riders. I'm happy with them, but unless you're a bigger guy or racing, the near-elimination of lateral flex makes for a very rigid setup. It made my carving much more stable.
   
• I tossed the stock liner in favor of the ZipFit GFT. Because this liner flexes so nicely, it is probably making the forward flex feel softer than normal. I could not tolerate the stock liner at all to compare.

Edited December 1, 2022 by Jarcode

[b.free]

On 11/30/2022 at 2:14 PM, slapos said:

with boot centered on the binding? pix?

Surely,

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

6 hours ago, Jarcode said:

• The toebox in the T700 is actually much larger. The issue with the T700 is that the stock liners are so high volume that you're loosing a lot of forefoot space until you either swap for a different liner or punch the shell.

On 11/17/2022 at 12:13 PM, Chouinard said:

Boots arrived yesterday. 

Toe box is bigger than T700's that I had to punch out.

[Jarcode]

14 minutes ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

It might be worth clarifying that I am at the end of my size for the .951 shells (C, m28). The T700 shell for my size is m28 (28.5 with a liner swap). The sizes don't map perfectly since the T700 has a 1.0 mondo point difference between shell sizes, and the mountain slopes have a 1.5 difference.

That being said, the T700s are still quite high volume. Known for poor heel lock and requires some work to get performance comparable to the mountain slope boots.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yeah, you’re right it could be a shell size thing…I’m at the end of B shell (26.5) which has given me some pause, as my forefoot/toe is pretty wide. 

I couldn’t get along with the Deeluxe, by the time the heel was down everything else was agony. 

I was off hardboots for years until recently (no terrain & then injuries) but I’ve been using a highly customized pair of Dalbello Krypton Pros since 2008 or so, right around when the Northwaves dried up and the racers were experimenting. Pure shell flex, look ma no springs!! I’ve busted a couple wire buckles over the years but Dalbello has been rock solid in getting me new ones. But it is time to get into something a little newer…..

[Jarcode]

38 minutes ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Yeah, you’re right it could be a shell size thing…I’m at the end of B shell (26.5) which has given me some pause, as my forefoot/toe is pretty wide. 

I couldn’t get along with the Deeluxe, by the time the heel was down everything else was agony. 

I was off hardboots for years until recently (no terrain & then injuries) but I’ve been using a highly customized pair of Dalbello Krypton Pros since 2008 or so, right around when the Northwaves dried up and the racers were experimenting. Pure shell flex, look ma no springs!! I’ve busted a couple wire buckles over the years but Dalbello has been rock solid in getting me new ones. But it is time to get into something a little newer…..

You do not want to size up on mountain slope boots, since the difference between the sizes are too large. Get the B shell, and find a bootfitter experienced with grilamid plastic (I went to a shop that mostly sold touring equipment), and you can get the forefoot blown out substantially.

My C shells were completely useless without substantial shell work, and as someone who shares your wide forefoot woes (significant 5th metatarsal splay), you're likely going to run into discomfort with the stock liner as well... this is due to stitching on the sides of the liner that stiffen it up too much in the forefoot and take up too much volume. The mountain slope shells are phenomenal, the liners are very hit or miss.

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Sigh….you’re playing into all my fears here.  We’re talking close to $2000 boots here by the time all that work is done…!

In for a penny…

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Well, ordered my Mountain Slopes (Standard). $1400 with tax here in Canada. Now to sit back and wait to see how much bootfitting may be required. 

Ungodly expensive stuff. 

[Jack M]

Where did you order from?

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Ivan

[Jack M]

Cool.  Equates to about US$1023.  The beauty of MS's is that if you like the stock liners (I did), the boots need nothing out of the box.  With Deeluxe you need BTS springs.  With UPZ most people upgrade liners and I upgraded the tongues twice.

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Yup…..including our 13% sales tax & broker shipping fees charged as it’s going through customs.

I’m selling it to the wife just like you have…workin so far, but fingers crossed they actually fit my feet when they arrive!! Having to spend hundreds more on bootfitting or liner swaps will be pretty dispiriting, but hey that’s kind of our sport ain’t it….

Eh, maybe it’s just karma for saving a couple bucks on Coilers by having Bruce nearby.

[MountainSlope]

3 hours ago, ShortcutToMoncton said:

Yup…..including our 13% sales tax & broker shipping fees charged as it’s going through customs.

I’m selling it to the wife just like you have…workin so far, but fingers crossed they actually fit my feet when they arrive!! Having to spend hundreds more on bootfitting or liner swaps will be pretty dispiriting, but hey that’s kind of our sport ain’t it….

Eh, maybe it’s just karma for saving a couple bucks on Coilers by having Bruce nearby.

Let us know if you have any questions or need any help