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To Trench or Not To Trench? ...


Gabe T

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31 minutes ago, st_lupo said:

If it's me it's probably #2.  Buuuut here's my stupid question: given equivalent snow conditions and identical tracks, how do you choose?  I always thought depth was a function of turn radius, snow condition and speed.

I'm with Mr. Lupo.  If I want to make pencil lines in soft conditions, I need to be very gentle.

If I want to make deep trenches in hard conditions, I need more cheeseburgers.  

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This is indirectly related to an issue that has been puzzling me lately. I share my home hill with two riders that are respectively "somewhat" and "significantly" heavier than me. In soft conditions, they always dig deeper trenches than me, but I can also carve tightly and maintain grip. But when conditions get harder, my fellow carvers can still turn tightly and dig trenches, whereas I have to throttle back and go for pencilling out large radius turns to avoid skidding across the surface. Am I just coming up against the laws of physics here, or is it my technique? For the record, I weigh 72 kg (159 lbs).

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I based my response on the statement "assume snow conditions where both can be done". It is possible to lay pencil thin lines on hero snow and softer snow (if you are moving slow, or making very long gentle turns), but attempting to lay trenches into east-coast chalk would probably result in a compressed spine; hence: any snow condition where both could be done would *have* to be on the softer side of things.

Edited by queequeg
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1 hour ago, Tanglefoot said:

This is indirectly related to an issue that has been puzzling me lately. I share my home hill with two riders that are respectively "somewhat" and "significantly" heavier than me. In soft conditions, they always dig deeper trenches than me, but I can also carve tightly and maintain grip. But when conditions get harder, my fellow carvers can still turn tightly and dig trenches, whereas I have to throttle back and go for pencilling out large radius turns to avoid skidding across the surface. Am I just coming up against the laws of physics here, or is it my technique? For the record, I weigh 72 kg (159 lbs).

Try a softer board. Or borrow a weight belt from a local salvage diver and see if that changes things.

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This topic came about as I joking asked a buddy of mine to ease up on the trenches as I didn’t want to get sucked into one those during my runs.   Plus I had to ski through that later in the day!   By then, he’s long gone of course having left a path of destruction on our poor tiny hill!   Tried to convince him (unsuccessfully) that trenches were overrated.  : )

There’s no arguing that hardness of the snow and rider weight will have a direct impact on the depth and the width of your lines.   I think a lot of it  comes down to your preferred riding style.   It’s a lot of fun to dig up some trenches and pound hard into a turn.  That was predominantly my style too in prior years along with more forward leaning and body drag (forearms and hip) 

As I explored different styles, I did notice a difference in the lines I left.   All things being equal, a thinner line requires one to be a bit more nimble and light with more precise timely edging.  I would describe it as more as racey freecarve style like those seen in the Japanese videos.  A hybrid of race technique and freecarving with more full complete turns.   It’s a style that generates speed as well and I find it allows me to ride with a more relaxed body position.

 

 

 

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1 hour ago, Gabe T said:

This topic came about as I joking asked a buddy of mine to ease up on the trenches as I didn’t want to get sucked into one those during my runs.   Plus I had to ski through that later in the day!   By then, he’s long gone of course having left a path of destruction on our poor tiny hill!   Tried to convince him (unsuccessfully) that trenches were overrated.  : )

Woe is he (me) who crosses my trenches while brushing a hand on the snow.  Those f'ers will suck your fingers right in and jam them up good.  :)

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3 hours ago, Gabe T said:

This topic came about as I joking asked a buddy of mine to ease up on the trenches as I didn’t want to get sucked into one those during my runs.   

You would not like riding Loveland on Sundays where a favourite pastime is to mess up a run and watch the carnage from the lift. Following @big mario down a run can be *interesting*.

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2 hours ago, ursle said:

Trenching is like the golf swing, you use the same swing for every club.

You make the same turn for all conditions, well, if you know how to swing a golf club, and if you know how to carve a snowboard.

I'm not sure what was meant by the same turn for all conditions, but the way in which I execute a turn is often times influenced by the snow conditions.   I like to ride with high edge angles with the hip close to the snow.   This is best done when conditions are firm or even icy.  There is a threshold for snow softness in which this can be done.  Once it becomes too soft, that same type of turn will result in the board edge sinking too deep to the point where there is not enough speed to continue carving.  Also, any looseness and bumps in the snow is going to hinder getting low to the snow.

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