bigwavedave Posted December 13, 2019 Report Share Posted December 13, 2019 8 hours ago, Lurch said: @Kneel & @bigwavedave not trying to start the metal Vs non-metal debate (again), but would be interested to hear your thoughts on the Thirst dampness given you both now have tried with geckos? The Thirst ride (naked, sans Geckos) is as smooth, maybe smoother than anything that I've ridden (K, SG, Ox etc, etc). Doesn't take a backseat to metal in any way (except that it is audibly noisier on ice). Livelier than a p-tex topped board, but not nervous or sketchy at all. I think some of the Oxess's that I tried were all carbon, no metal, and they were a delight--lively, light, quietly sure footed and smooth. Probably the closest feel to a Thirst. Certainly don't need Geckos on a Thirst, and I likely wouldn't have bought them but for a painful knee. They do smooth out the bumps and add a little stiffness, but when pushed there was a nice springy feedback. And, I could still feel that deliciously smooth Thirst carve....and no shooting knee pain on heelsides!!! We do get ice here, although not today. My first day on the xc this season was on a surface that felt like a solid sheet of ice cubes covered with an inch of granular, and it handled it just fine. Audibly it was noisy as hell, but the ride was predictable. *edited* 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 I finally put bindings on the XC, but still haven't ridden it. Post Thanksgiving, the conditions in the NE have been crap. I can't get OFF the SF, however, and I have been messing around with A/B'ing geckos v. naked. I keep going back to centered and asym, right where I started, but I have gone from 60/57(f/r) to 65/62. Gecko v. naked, does indeed mute the board moderately, but not in an unpleasant way and probably the most setup sym compared to asym. You also get a noticeable, albeit slight, delay in edge engagement. However, when I went up to 65/62 that delay went away surprisingly when setup asym and on the contrary felt more muted and delayed while setup sym. Without geckos you don't experience any delay, however it didn't seem to want to give the middle finger to northeast bulletproof they way it did with the geckos. My feet seemed a lot happier too between runs without having to soak up all the road noise. I'm gonna keep using them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Sorry, @Lurch. I ignored your actual question. The only metal board I've ridden was a Donek Metal FC demo for a few hours. But I certainly wouldn't consider the Thirst damp. It's anything but that. It's very dynamic, so much so as I've described to Mark. It can be a 918 or it can be a Prius. You can hammer it and bring it about-face in less than 10 yards or draw it out surf-style. Damp is definitely not an adjective I would use for it. I called the SF a "K168 for adults". I believe they have about the same effective edge, but could be wrong... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Thanks for the feedback @Kneel. Encourages me to keep experimenting with the Gecko set-up. For now, I've decided to take the Geckos off my Thirsts and use them on one of my non-Thirst boards (I still have a few). I rode the SF this morning on Spirit Mt "surface groom" (1 inch of groomed granular over boiler plate), and had some very satisfying smooth carving before the surface groom got chewed up. I just love the SF (and all my Thirsts) best naked. Best little board I've ever had! Near perfect. I think this started out as the XC review thread Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 Thanks @Kneel. Really interesting. I see now that I might have misunderstood what Dave said - I read smooth and assumed damp. I had been second guessing if I wanted a SF or an XC, but your great analogy ^ has put the SF back on top of my wish list. I mean seriously, how can I turn down a rowdy, eco-Porsche with an Euro adult disposition? Next you will be telling me it works in a library by day and a strip club at night Apologies @bigwavedave for the threadjack. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 2, 2020 Report Share Posted January 2, 2020 3 hours ago, Lurch said: Thanks @Kneel. Really interesting. I see now that I might have misunderstood what Dave said - I read smooth and assumed damp. I had been second guessing if I wanted a SF or an XC, but your great analogy ^ has put the SF back on top of my wish list. I mean seriously, how can I turn down a rowdy, eco-Porsche with an Euro adult disposition? Next you will be telling me it works in a library by day and a strip club at night Apologies @bigwavedave for the threadjack. I would describe the ptex topped Kesslers that I've had as damp,...and also smooth. The Thirst feels closer to the (carbon) Oxess end of dampness in the narrow spectrum of today's top end carving boards. For a reference that you can relate to, I think that (in general) the Coilers I've ridden are more damp than Thirst, or closer to the Kessler end of the spectrum. Everything is damp compared to old glass carving boards. That's where I'm coming from. Could be this...."Next you will be telling me it works in a library by day and a strip club at night " I take equal responsibility for thread drift. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 9, 2020 Report Share Posted January 9, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 11:45 AM, Kneel said: It can be a 918 or it can be a Prius. You can hammer it and bring it about-face in less than 10 yards or draw it out surf-style. I called the SF a "K168 for adults". I believe they have about the same effective edge, but could be wrong... I think the XC would be the likely model to compare with a K168, or possibly the Superconductor (175). Maybe you'll run into Jack while you're at the Loaf. He might be curious enough to do a comparison. I think the Geckos might be muting your full SF experience. Rode the XC for a couple of hours yesterday in soft groom, finally! It rides like a large SL board. Does nice medium tight turns until you increase pressure and angle and then it can give you whiplash inducing tight turns. Really surprised me how fast it tightened up when I was doing cutbacks off a double-fall-line feature at Indianhead yesterday. Whereas the Super, on the same feature, was a little smoother and predictable. Might describe the Super as a small GS board--a great all around board. The SF rides more like a race SL, able to do long, relatively fast drawn out turns with stability and confidence, and nice quick, tight turns. Reminds me a lot of the black SG 163 frt (2011-12) I had a few years ago. Very similar exceptional performance, except that the SF can be ridden relaxed or aggressively. It doesn't demand that you constantly stay on top of it. And, for me anyway, willingly completes the turn as long as I keep it on edge. Push to decamber and tighten the turn, but hang on as it will really accelerate. I've come to the conclusion that my favorite Thirst model is most definitely, hands down.......the one under my feet But seriously, it would be riding the 8rw, but only when conditions are optimal--snow soft enough to get a grip (it gets going too fast for me on ice), no crowds (it's 185cm) and a sunny day with good visibility to let it rip. (Keep in mind I'm somewhere beyond my mid 60's and just can't push it as hard as some of the super human real mountain men here who can ride anything, anywhere). 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 @bigwavedave, don't tell Mark, but I promised to finally ride the XC this morning. It was too dam cold to go out to take an extra trip out to the truck and we had limited time on our last day at the Loaf so I rode the SF...again. The SF is super stable in a straight line too. Slopes had me doing 55 at some point yesterday. Don't tell my wife. Thanks. I had the SF and K168 side by side a couple weeks ago and it surprised me. They looked pretty darn close and I know the XC is well, bigger. And @Lurch I'm sorry, I forgot the K168 is titanal and I've ridden that plenty of times and would DEFINITELY not call that damp. But again, not enough time in the saddle of other titanal boards to really be able to tell the difference. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/3/2020 at 5:12 AM, bigwavedave said: I think this started out as the XC review thread I'm sure most will find all the info here useful. SF v XC (and even v SC) is a logical question if you are Thirsty. Thanks @bigwavedave , @Kneel & others - keep it coming! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 10, 2020 Report Share Posted January 10, 2020 On 1/2/2020 at 11:45 AM, Kneel said: I called the SF a "K168 for adults". ^Not sure what you mean by this.^ I'd be careful what you say, as you're likely to run into K168 enthusiasts while you're riding the Loaf. I've heard those Maineiacs don't take to guys from NJ dissing their ride. " I forgot the K168 is titanal and I've ridden that plenty of times and would DEFINITELY not call that damp. But again, not enough time in the saddle of other titanal boards to really be able to tell the difference." ^^^This must be a joke...I'm assuming by K168 you mean Kessler, famous for introducing titanal boards to the world of snowboarding and the very definition of damp. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 Then I clearly don't understand the snowboard definition of "damp" which I've already admitted to. Dynamic I understand. I've found the SF and K168 to be very similar, with the difference being the SF isn't as demanding as the Kessler, as the Kessler popped me out of every finished turn cheering "C'mon! Faster! Tighter!" whereas the SF says "Hey! I'm good. What do you want to do next?". That to me doesn't say "damp". I'm just not getting that. I'm a surf-style rider and just don't need that constant goading. I'll even go out on a limb and say the SG Full Carve 170 and the K168 are comparable in ride, but you just can't shape the range of turns on the SG that you can with the Kessler. Kessler = fun, SG = boring, but I'll take the SG over Kessler every time because it's just that much more of a relaxed ride. This is the precise reason Iove Mark's boards. Couldn't care less what the K crowd nor Mainah's(ah not er ) think and what they do out in the willywags is their business, and it certainly wasn't a knock on Kessler. But if this 67 degree weather in NJ, 55 at Stratton VT and rain crap doesn't change back to winter soon and I have to drive back up there to get some decent conditions, I may have to choke a bitch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SunSurfer Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Damping_ratio Minor thread jack: I'd always assumed a "damp" snowboard was more towards the critically damped end of the spectrum after it was deformed from its' at rest position. The Thirst Superconductor I rode seemed to sustain the vibration if I tapped the board surface, it seemed to be "not damp" and yet performed beautifully. I have a KST 162 slalom board as a comparison, which tends to give a dull thunk if I tap it the same way, so more "damp". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bigwavedave Posted January 11, 2020 Report Share Posted January 11, 2020 I think of damp as a description of ride quality. Damp, quiet, mellow, in that the board doesn't transmit jittery or nervous energy to the rider over uneven terrain at speed. Essentially smoothing out the ride. A damp board can still have pop, maybe not the quite the same as a full cambered glass board. I haven't ridden one, but the SG Full carve is the free-ride glass (non-metal) version of the full race titan. Might also have a different scr and flex pattern from the race. So...apples & oranges? I think we do agree that there is something about Mark's boards, and it's hard to find the right words to describe it, but I like it a lot. There's is a distinctive sensation you get in a carve....he just might be the Walter White of board builders. **I might add that all my Thirst boards came with the best professional edge tune I've ever had (.75° base / 2° edge). Sliced my leather gloves just carrying the board. I thought the board bag/sleeve that comes with every board was to protect the board, but maybe it's so you don't cut yourself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Shhh... Don’t tell Mark. I don’t think he’s fully recovered from me putting geckos on the SF. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 Never mind. Nothing to report. Its good, but surprisingly more responsive direct. It doesn’t give that instant edge engagement when you tip it over that this old ass has grown to love. Found I had to get lower and treat it more like them fancy Austrian boards, just not as satisfying as it is naked. Whatever black magic mark puts into his cores, IMO the plate just negates. I suppose I could put some time into tinkering front to back to find the g-spot, but I’d prefer just to ride it as is... 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
barryj Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 5 hours ago, Kneel said: Don’t tell Mark. I don’t think he’s fully recovered from me putting geckos on the SF. Kneel is that BP a 4x4 mount or did you seriously have the Ball's to ask Mark for UPM inserts in the build!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kneel Posted March 12, 2020 Report Share Posted March 12, 2020 39 minutes ago, barryj said: Kneel is that BP a 4x4 mount or did you seriously have the Ball's to ask Mark for UPM inserts in the build!! BP2 4mm lite 4x4. Love it on the SG Full Carve 170, it just doesn’t belong on the XC. I might consider asking him to add them to a non-WARP build, but this was purely for scientific research purposes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BLOODTYPEZX10R Posted March 13, 2020 Report Share Posted March 13, 2020 NO BOARD FOR YOU!! I couldn't resist Board naked or go home. 1 6 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CB Utah Posted Sunday at 10:14 PM Report Share Posted Sunday at 10:14 PM The following are the parameters for my test of an April 2024 manufacturing date XC: XC WARP 171 cm, (RFF), effective edge 156 cm, 19.5 cm wide (as measured by me), SCR comparative average 11 m, flex index .299. Important distinction: the nose shape on this XC is a new style. My review will be written without reading previous reviews. Sorry if anything repeats; this way it's my impressions and mine alone, without influence. Conditions ranged from groomed hard pack to rough, noisy frozen crud in the shadows to smooth slush to irregular bouncy soft slush piles and 35-55 degrees F (yes, it varies a lot). I used Fast Stik Warm. For comparison, I typically ride a 184.5 cm or a 181 cm board, ~18.5 cm to 20 cm wide. The Good: The board is light, lively, composed on hard pack with great edge hold, fun in slush and nimble. It makes a distinctive noise going across hard pack. Biggest finding of the day: There is something going on with the way the new nose is now shaped on these boards. I can only describe it as the edge to edge transition and turn initiation felt even more instant and precise. To put it into another perspective, it felt like the difference between riding ice or hard pack with 90 degree edges versus finely honed ones at <90 degrees. It basically felt like a scalpel, as if the nose was more narrow than it actually is. The turn radius could easily be tightened. It was not twitchy or nervous and did not feel like I had to be constantly working it to have fun. I rode with a relaxed, neutral stance. I don't even feel like I explored it's limits because I'm not a great rider. It was easy to ride. The riding varied from wide open western runs to moderately narrow runs and cat tracks. It carried speed well on the slushy cat tracks, tracked flat nicely and enabled me to pass skiers and boarders unless they were swerving back and forth and I needed to scrub speed. In the hands of a racer, this board may be the ticket. I want to see someone race this to see what it can do. Again, that nose shape is doing something different with the edge engagement. The Bad: I had no powder to test it in. The season is ending in a month. I did try a side hit run up a slope but it was just soft, melty and sun-pitted, not fluffy. Bonus Good: A lucky chipmunk on the cat track thankfully made the wise decision to zig instead of zag and thus avoided ruining both of our days. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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