Chair accident at Sugarloaf

[bjvircks]

Hey mykcuz... I now realize I made my 'bingo' comment without knowing enough about the overall situation you guys faced. I withdraw it. Sorry.

[skidad62]

[boarderboy]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20101229/ap_on_bi_ge/us_ski_lift_accident

The "official" version, for the moment...

BB

of "snowy" Possum Pouch:confused:

[Jack M]

I'm confident that recounting my first-hand observations and those of my mother will not land me in trouble. There are several other people with their own observations and photos which have also been circulated. The truth often offends and complicates.

I agree the hearsay about the cable snapping and the wind gust are infuriating. It is absolutely appalling that news agencies - NEWS AGENCIES - will simply fabricate information or use sketchy hearsay when they do not have the real thing. The cable is still intact, albeit laying on the ground, for anyone to see. And there was no significant wind to speak of. That was my observation and my mother has re-confirmed hers.

I'd be surprised if CNN propagated any story about the cable snapping, as there was a CNN reporter on the chair, which is how the story originally broke.

I've been asked for permission to use the images by several news agencies. I saw them on The Today Show this morning, with my name on the bottom. They are also in the Portland Press Herald and their associated papers. It's amazing how they went viral just from here. Apparently somebody tweeted this thread. I only posted them here and on facebook, and then the requests came rolling in.

Thanks again everyone for the good wishes.

[scrutton]

Come on down and ride in NC... I always have a reasonable expectation to not have snow on a trail.....

I was gonna say the same.....especially when it rains.

In other places, I've ridden down runs to the bottom where people were taking the lift down to avoid the lack of snow. Lightweights.

[110/220V]

the thread is just fine as it stands. yes, because we assume the corporate resort has hired and retained plenty of expertise on the safety of the particular chair within the parameter of daily protocol and proceedure. why shed a tears when there is potential negligence at stake? do you shed tears for the hour employee who endure the tourists every day of his shift for the mere sake of customer/product service and corporate profit?

so we do not cry foul at the big friendly resort, but there is reason for public examination of culpability on this large scale...lives are affected who have relied upon reasonable care and caution in maintaining service and running the machine, unless you are a lawyer for the resort you may oblige yourself to indulge some amount of public opinion on this accident..you do not need to read you may move on if the thread offends.

this is part of the skiing, thank you jack for the post. all on the lift are in our thoughts...any of us could have been on this lift, so we acknowledge your concern and empathize with your experience.

110

[Bobby Buggs]

Big bad corporate America, yeah Lets get um :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Jack M]

let's not forget the lift gets certified by the State of Maine every year.

[mykcuz]

well then i guess we can't trust sugarloaf to keep the public safe, we should slander them til they go broke, then the fed can bail them out, since as far as maine mountains go, they are too big to fail. Then nothing bad would happen ever again. Just unionize the liftees to about $75 an hour and guarantee them year round employment, and we can never fire them, even if sugarloaf wastes away and has 10 skiers a year.

The report that kept bothering me on yahoo was the story about the lift being the first to be scheduled for replacement during a 10 year face lift. And here it comes..."But the resort would not release the date scheduled." Insinuating the resort had a faulty lift and was running it into the ground.

[C5 Golfer]

It is absolutely appalling that news agencies - NEWS AGENCIES - will simply fabricate information or use sketchy hearsay when they do not have the real thing. .

First off Jack - Glad you and family are ok.

Your above Quote -- I could not agree more... it is not only the current news item of the lift but in so many other news stories. They not only often fabricate but sensationalize for either selfish or ignorant reasons. I'd give a few recent examples but it would cause a thread drift which we do not need. Thanks for the great first hand real info.

[carvedog]

The ONLY person who actually gets it. Thank you for posting this.

Obviously very few people here have experience dealing in multi million dollar insurance policy purchasing, negotiations or mod ratings.

That someone else might agree with should surely give you some ammo to start calling people names who don't agree with you. Why stop now?

Carry on.

[KingCrimson]

The ONLY person who actually gets it. Thank you for posting this.

Obviously very few people here have experience dealing in multi million dollar insurance policy purchasing, negotiations or mod ratings.

CLEARLY some people have never tried to play Stravinsky's Rite of Spring on the bassoon.

[jtslalom]

WOW,

I am happy to hear that most people were not seriously hurt including Jack Michaud and his mom. To address the quote about news reporters, I truly don't like people who fabricate stories to make them seem more glamorous, especially the news media. What ever happened to facts?

Mykcuz, good post dude. Risks are taken every time a skier/riders enters a ski resort. You are indeed responsible for your own actions.The example of you hauling down a slope that wasn't properly groomed or posted seems like an example of poor judgement on your behalf. However, our local resort would have some type of sign explaining conditions or even have the slope roped off. I guess if you are used to this type of slope management you might expect most ski resorts to manage likewise. Who knows which party is correct. The only thing that one can truly say about the incident at Sugarloaf is a chair lift somehow fell off the track and Jack and his mom happen to be on the lift. Was it their fault, I don't think so.

[~tb]

Jack,

Just saw your mom's interview on fox news. Good job on the photo credits!

Glad to hear everyone is alright, or atleast as alright as can be.

[bobdea]

let's not forget the lift gets certified by the State of Maine every year.

correct, the tramway inspectors are the ones who should told the resort they need a retrofit or replacement.

multi tiered issue. just a FYI as someone who's seen some scary **** at resorts in three states it really comes down to what is and is not allowed by the state. then you have the resorts that will only be willing to adhere to the lowest standard allowed.

[jp1]

Jack, that IS some scary stuff ......

Glad to hear YOU & YOUR FAMILY are OK.

Wishing everyone involved a rapid & full recovery..........

[NateW]

I'm glad you and your mom are OK, Jack. What a nightmare.

I noticed many years ago that when the TV news reports on a subject that I'm familiar with, they get big fundamental things wrong. Dead wrong, every time. Like the cable broke because it was windy. No surprise there. Really. Usually things get twisted in a more sensational direction, but not always. Print journalism is not as bad, but they still get technical stuff wrong with amazing regularity.

So when they're reporting on things that I'm not knowledgeable about, I just assume that they're still getting fundamentals wrong, and take everything with a very big grain of salt.

Pretend that everything on the TV news actually came from the 5th person who heard about it worth-of-mouth... strip out the details, and try to guess at what the basic story started like. Your guess will probably be closer to the truth than anything you saw or heard on TV. :)

[lowrider]

Good going Jack! How are you going to top that for excitement next Christmas?

[mykcuz]

As a correction to my story... when I say hauling, i meant to explain that we were having a great nonstop empty slope run. Ripping some really good carves non stop all the way down the mountain. I did not mean to say that i was bombing the trail at full speed, even though this is called bomberonline?

And in summary, the ski patrol in first aid did say they messed up, the trail wassn't ready to be opened yet, and wasn't safe. He admitted the resorts error, my friend got oxy's and a pocket full of free passes, and we continued riding for 3 more days. Absolutely love Sugarloaf.

My intent was to say that my only trip there started out with an error by the resort(admitted by ski patrol), and so reading this story with my own experience at the resort doesn't come off as a surprise at lack of judgement, as an initial sentiment. But ofcourse i don't know their day to day operations, or how great their staff very well could be.

And Jack has the right to tell anyone he wishes, as long as his story is true. IMHO It is the most unbiased report I have ever heard, and after watching his mom drop 30' off a chairlift! I have never met you, but I can tell you are a very cool headed, honest guy, Jack. Very respectable.

No defamation if it's true, you may want to be careful about the guy with the hammer, unless your mom saw him derail the cable. But a lone employee mishap would not damage a company's reputation beyond repair, and open up a trade libel case. The actual un-doctored photos would damage the reputation, if anything. And a gag order would be the first step, and if sugarloaf suffered large enough monetary losses, how would suing Jack achieve anything. Corporate trade libel in an insurance deal his an entirely different beast.

[Bobby Buggs]

That someone else might agree with should surely give you some ammo to start calling people names who don't agree with you. Why stop now?

Carry on.

Awful lot of butthurt here, Im sure you will get over it.

[yooperluke]

Have any of you people ever worked Chairlift maintenance? There are any number of reasons why this incident happened. Its very upsetting that it did, but to throw out unfounded B.S. based on speculation and yellow journalism does the people whose job it is to keep you safe a rotten disservice. Does anyone really believe that the guys who are tasked to get you off the lift when it breaks down and keep your ass safe day to day would make a decision to run it based on anything but saftey. Ever look at a lift mechanics salary? There are any number of reasons they (lift maintenance) chose to run the lift on auxillary drive to evacuate the skiers. The decisions are made based on skier saftey 1st and the weighting the risk of evcauting each individual one at a time from chair to chair or creeping the lift along. Let them freeze until we can get them off one at a time or inch the chair and get everyone off with as little discomfort as possible. Couple that with every person stuck on the chair bitching and every person who wants on it bitching and upper management bitching to get it going. We have all weighed risks and made decisions based on our abilities, education and experiences. When the pressure is on to make the best decision its easy to look back and say..well, I think we should have.....

Been here and have made those decisions...guess I got lucky.

[bobdea]

Have any of you people ever worked Chairlift maintenance?

have you ever ridden the lift in question?

I've seen resorts run lifts with RPDs in bypass for example, is that safe? the idea being if **** hit the fan and the haul rope did jump out it would break a brittle bar and stop the lift anyway. is that safe?

mechanics are in a hard place, no one doubts that.....

but it's not always up to mechanics to make those safety calls.

I had a experience as a lifty that was quite amazing, I was sitting the top of a detach and it was windy, I made the call about wind, was quite insistent that it was bad. eventually a mechanic shows up he sees it's pretty bad we slow the lift, his boss a half hour later decides we should speed it up again, I say it's a bad idea and bitch until the mechanic comes back he sits down agrees with me is about to make the call to shut it down, then, a nice big gust comes in, a chair goes sideways and rips a few feet of sheet metal off the incoming side of the lift. we have to run the lift at 100 fpm to get everyone off because the crumpled metal was now being bumped by every incoming chair.

ultimately that episode was because somebody sitting in a cozy office decided the people actually on the hill were wrong and he was right. then, in the eyes of this manager it was somehow my fault or the mechanic's for not stopping the lift fast enough.

[mykcuz]

I don't believe anyone blames the employees for safety. except that the guy on the post may have done something without knowing, just as likely it was something else. the simple starting jerk and the alignment of that pole and a weird mix of tension points could have cause a bounce on the spot that derailed it. Who knows.

It's a natural fact of nature, when someone does the same procedure day in and out quality is hard to maintain. In every profession this is true.

I grew up living at a resort owned by one of the greediest money driven owners that ran the place into the ground. This is a well known fact. This coupled with the fact that all of the kids in my town at one point worked at the resort, and for a lot of them it scares you. Every employee i passed except the older people who were lifers, was someone i knew. As I myself said, I can't speak for employees I don't know. And this post was pretty unanimous about condemning the inaccurate news reports including mine regarding the fact that they stated the lift was assigned replacement, "But the resort wouldn't release when."

[Michelle]

Holy ****

What he said. Wow. At least it wasn't one of those super high chair lifts that make you feel like you are flying around above nothing. I'm so glad that your mom and everyone seems to be ok, at least at first glance. There are a lot of things to be thankful for, and a lot of things to open our eyes.

[bonzo]

Due partially to our proximity to Devils Head Resort, which had a chair rollback incident last year, at our patrol refresher this year we had a staged mass casualty incident. Our scenario was very similar to what happened in Sugarloaf.

From what I read in media reports, all the injured guests were transported from the scene in under 30 minutes and the remaining 150 guests were evacuated from the stranded chairs in under 90 minutes. Considering the reported conditions on that day and the typical (and completely understandable) reluctance of some guests to be evacuated (often requiring a patroler to ascend to the stranded chair), the Sugarloaf Patrol performed admirably. The Ski Patrol Practices these events because the unthinkable can happen, and if it does, we are prepared.

Kudos to the Sugarloaf Patrol.