Why do you want to ride blacks?

[SWriverstone]

Serious question—not a troll. :) Prompted by a conversation on our local carving list.

It seems as though there is a prevalent attitude among many (but not all) carvers that carving steep blacks is the logical, perhaps inevitable goal of all carving—the point toward which all carvers strive.

I personally have zero desire to ever set foot on a black. I can (and will) die of old age without ever having done it and won't regret it one bit. But I'm still curious to know (as best as you can articulate it) two things:

1. What a steep black does for you that a blue won't...and...

2. Why you couldn't be content to ride blues all your life.

Obviously if you're someone like me who doesn't give a rat's crotch about blacks, those two questions don't apply to you.

Have at it!

Scott

PS - The same question could be posed in many sports: why must you run class 5 whitewater? Why must you hang glide the Owens Valley? Why must you climb El Capitan? (And you're not allowed to say "Because it's there.")

[Hotbeans]

I've found that as my carving skills sharpen, I need steeper slopes to keep my speed up and the thrill factor where I like it.

+ I'm realizing that carving to me is what golf must feel like for golfers.. there's always a challenge (or aspect of technique) waiting to be worked on..and it fits my 'fiddling' personality.

In a nutshell, for me, it's technical progression.

[bobdea]

huh?

a black at the possum's pouch in NC is possibly a green elsewhere.

worry less about the designation of the trail.

[scrapster]

Variety. As long as they're not bumpy, and have some width to them, its just a different sensation. There's also a nice "holy crap, I got down that, and with some degree of style" feeling of accomplishment.

I carved a steeper black today. Not well, but I held my lines. It felt good.

[xy9ine]

There's also a nice "holy crap, I got down that, and with some degree of style" feeling of accomplishment.

it's a different set of kinesthetics as well on really steep stuff that's a total rush - ie, the rapid loss of elevation, not to mention the focus & heightened awareness that's a byproduct of riding something that has the potential to kick your ass if you lose an edge. just another fun facet of the sport.

[Gecko]

It was possible to ride down the Olympic Super G course at Nagano the top of which was as holy shit as any black I have ever contemplated including the front 4 double blacks at Stowe, by far the most fun I have ever had being scared shitless. I would lover to do it on a board longer than my 175 as I had to do way too many turns but still groomed steeps are a blast (Crazy Horse at Targhee is another)

[Chubz]

I will offer my 2 cents but JBS loves steep blacks even when they are not in perfect condtion.

But I will say on good days, when they are groomed well, I wish I had steep pitches the whole way down. It's much easier to lay it down, its a different sensation of push back from your board, I think my board makes a much different resonating sound like its cutting through ice, when timing is perfect moments of a feeling of weightlessness present itself, with a right cadence its almost effortless and then there's skiers in line asking how thats possible and lifties saying thats the coolest thing they ever saw on a slope. At Blue our top headwall on Razor is visible from the quad.

Things only start to hurt when the boierplate peaks its head out after midmorning and being scraped by people who shouldnt even be on that run, who chicken peck their way down the face. When you hit those spots after a handful of runs on perfect groom, the edge tends to release and you go straight to the deck, hips, butt and ribs take some shots.

I'd love the chance to hit that once slope that the EC guys are on. If you have the room and conditions, I think steep is easier than stuff with less slope, you just have to fight against that pit in your stomach and go for it. Its well worth the roll of the dice in getting use to it for the first couple of times. The only way I would have started doing them is because JBS loves them no matter what it motivated me to give it a shot. My pre-snapped MADD 158 also helped me crack that appreshension.

I know I enjoyed yet felt like I was going to puke on Liftline at Stowe last year a ECES. I wouldnt have minded on my POGO Overdose 162, but on my POGO Blitz 177, that thing is like riding a bucking bronc and I thought for sure I was going to get shot into the trees had I not come out of a turn right. Sickening but cool.

Ok maybe my 38 cents.

[WRXRacer111]

Blacks around this area of the east coast are often smooth and less populated than other slopes. I like having some rollers to crest and carve on.

Steep, bumpy black= no fun on a board for me...

Steep, groomed racecourse blacks- I've skiied Birds of Prey at Beaver Creek or Vail (can't remember, 8 years ago...) which I think they used for the downhill racecourse for the Goodwill Games. Definitely wouldn't point it and go on that slope, but it gives you a huge respect for just how fast top-level skiiers and boarders go when shooting for medals.

[BlueB]

I'm easy to satisfy... If there were only greens, I'd happily ride the greens and try to make the most out of it. However, if there are all sorts of pitches, I'd ride them all for variety.

There are other reasons for blacks too:

Very fun to EC on them,

Only there you can have the sensation of your CG being below your engaged uphill edge,

Show off a bit,

Last but not least, for trill seaking and pushing my limits. I guess the same reason why I sailed a "big men's boat" at World Championship without being quite fit for it, and sailed across 2 oceans in a 30 year old wreck...

[noschoolrider]

I personally have zero desire to ever set foot on a black.

So, it sounds like I would have a hard time convincing you to ride a double black diamond run with me.

Look at all the fun single and double black diamond runs at

http://www.snowbasin.com/images/trail_maps/mtn_trail_map_w.jpg

Blue runs are fun but they can get boring. Black runs are more challenging – just like a blue run is more challenging than a green run.

Once you have perfected your skills on a blue run then it is a logical progression to learn the next level, which for some is the ability to make linked pure carved turns on a black diamond run in control.

Also, as bobdea indicated, not all black runs are the same – there is no industry standard, so the rating of difficulty is usually relative to the ski area – some black runs are much easier than others.

However, one of the problems is that some people attempt to ride a black run before they have developed enough fundamental skills to do it in control. Once you have acquired the skills and confidence to carve on steep blue runs then advancing to a black run will not be so intimidating.

Take it one step at a time and build upon your skills, and one day you might want to learn how to carve on black diamond runs.

Lessons from a good instructor are also very beneficial.

Personally, I like the challenge, the variety, the thrill/speed, and it gives you a workout that can’t be match on the easier slopes.

Don

[Corey]

Change the question slightly: why go on blue runs? You can get going just fine on green runs. ;)

Blacks here are generally just narrow blues, though there are some genuinely steep runs. I really enjoy the challenge of trying to carve the whole run in complete contol of my speed.

[bobdea]

to answer the title of the thread, because I am not racist. Halle Berry and Beyonce are friggin' hawt

really though, most black runs are not THAT much steeper than blues if at all. more about sustained pitch and or trail width.

double black usually just means steep and bumped.

[Jack M]

challenge = fun.

The blacks is where the real thigh, hip, armpit dragging happens. And higher g's.

[tex1230]

the easiest way to drag your hip is on a 60 degree slope....

[Zone]

Agree with BlueB.

Nowadays, I'm actually looking for wide empty and very steep and well groomed black to EC on. It keeps your speed up and I LOVE the sensation of having the board whipping around above my head (ie you go in head first then the board catches up later).

Problem is not much around here in Ontario that have that kinds of hills that would allow you to be upside down turn after turn.

But blue and green are just as fun just you can't be upside down!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Because most blues bore me to tears? Bring on the steep bumps, I say!

[boarderboy]

huh?

a black at the possum's pouch in NC is possibly a green elsewhere.

Wherezat??!!

BB

Lizard Lick, N.C.

[big mario]

Accomplishment

[Mellow Yellow]

huh?

a black at the possum's pouch in NC is possibly a green elsewhere.

Whacha tryin' to say Bob?

[NateW]

The faster you go, the more you can (have to) lean in with each turn. So it gets harder, and riskier. So it gets more rewarding, and more thrilling. There's more challenge, more satisfaction, more adrenalin.

[Jon Dahl]

Usually the black runs I see are bumped up badly, no fun. There is one short black @ Stevens Pass that I love to get on and carve. You build speed so quickly that you have to be on your game and work your technique. I remember a black run @ buttermilk (can't remember the name) that had a great pitch and was long, wide, and smooth, carve every turn across the hill and every toeside was started with the board above you, now that is a great feeling. So I guess the reasons are the speed, g-force feelings, the challenge to get it right with everything moving at a fast pace...and sometimes the hero worship!!

[Snowman]

West Wall at Abasin will test all of your skills an might just smack you down if you screw it up. It is such an unbelievable thrill to rip down something so steep. The feeling is undescribeable but for the few that can its tremendously rewarding.

Think Snow

[Steve Prokopiw]

feel the thrill and adrenalin of tight,high g turns without all that pesky straight gliding between sets of a few turns to regain the necessary speed as on blue runs.The risk/reward equation is different since the sensation of falling into the next turn and hoping your quads have the strength to hold the edge replaces the high speed,"hope I don't fold the nose going this fast" risk that I take on when riding blues.That,and the fact that a steep run next to a lift full of onlookers is the ultimate proving ground for one's skills and a great venue to show them off.

[JJFluff]

Why not?

[b0ardski]

bumps powder trees groom

steep is fun