Where to find an ideal powder board (hard boots, steep angles, small feet)?

[RRrider]

ok, as some of you know from another thread, I'm going down all the adjustments to see if I can't make my present powder board (154 K2 Excavator, with 26.5 waist) work. but I'm struggling, and so in parallel I want to start researching my other options of getting a powder board that fits.

Present carving board:  FC Metal Donek, 163, 18 waist, 60/55 angles.  great in almost all conditions but sinks in deep snow and gets caught up in moguls (as I go allover the mountain).  I'm about 5' 8", 155lbs.  Happy with board.

But on days when the snow is deep:  I just need to have a board that floats better...less of sinker.  My boot size is mondo 26, and because of ankle surgeries, I can't use soft boots nor am I comfortable with shallow angles.  although still experimenting, I'm presently capable (although unfcomfortable and less capable) at 45/ 30 and 50/37.  

The waist suggested by my 37 degree mondo 26 boot is about 22cm - quite a bit less than the 26.5 I presently have (harder to manuever and lots of pain when it gets slammed).  So I'm thinking the ideal powder board for me is ~154-156; waist of 22 (maybe 23?), with a larger shovel in front to catch snow, and stiff in the middle to carve when the conditions/terrain changes.

does this sound right? 

any off the shelf board like this? 
if not which custom board seems to be the closes start?

TIA

[pow4ever]

i love powder; who doesn't!  I don't ride in powder enough to be expert at it.
I took one of the forum advice and it work well.

for deep powder -
Got some AT boots (atomic backland) with DGGS and soft burton/IBEX/F2 binding  mount them on Jones Hovercraft.  In deep powder it start to lift off (it start to hover); don't need to put weight in the back foot.

i find the all mountain HB (165 23 waist contra) just doesn't wow me.  yes it does everything well but not excel at any had me wish i was on something else.  maybe i just don't have enough day on it yet.

lack of length make it less stable in hard/firm - it will rail but i would rather be on on skinner board.
it does powder/chop ok - but it's still stiff i would want to be on something more floaty and softer.

maybe a 173 21-22cm with powder nose will be a better overall compromise

[ibrussell]

get a longer board 160-165 22-23 waist.  How tall and your weight matter.  I'm 5'6"  185 #  27 boot and I run a 167  22 waist on anything less than 1 1/2 foot of powder. Two foot and over 172 256 waist  tanker or 185 Rossi Undertaker and still run 65-70 front  60-65 rear 

[Corey]

Paging @philw! 

[Neil Gendzwill]

You’re looking for a Coiler AM, Prior 4WD or similar. 

[RRrider]

17 hours ago, ibrussell said:

get a longer board 160-165 22-23 waist.  How tall and your weight matter.  I'm 5'6"  185 #  27 boot and I run a 167  22 waist on anything less than 1 1/2 foot of powder. Two foot and over 172 256 waist  tanker or 185 Rossi Undertaker and still run 65-70 front  60-65 rear 

wow!  I'm 5'8" 155# 26 boot. 

those are some steep angles...excellent!  and your boards are definitely longer.

5 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

You’re looking for a Coiler AM, Prior 4WD or similar. 

the coiler VSR AM does look attractive....

[Eastsiiiide]

you know thirst has a "powder carver" right? 

I'm on a similar mission, wanting to experiment with hard boots on softie boards for powder like you have, and not ready yet to plunk down for the Thirst PC, gorgeous though it is (Have my sights set on a SF or XC for my first Thirst).  Like you I prefer steeper angles and narrower boards if possible.  I bought @yamifumi's 14.5 waisted Virus Cyborg last year and it was instant love.  That deep Sierra powder though...

 

https://www.thirstsnowboards.com/pc "w: nominal 21cm" 

Edited March 2 by Eastsiiiide

[RRrider]

10 hours ago, Eastsiiiide said:

you know thirst has a "powder carver" right? 

I'm on a similar mission, wanting to experiment with hard boots on softie boards for powder like you have, and not ready yet to plunk down for the Thirst PC, gorgeous though it is (Have my sights set on a SF or XC for my first Thirst).  Like you I prefer steeper angles and narrower boards if possible.  I bought @yamifumi's 14.5 waisted Virus Cyborg last year and it was instant love.  That deep Sierra powder though...

 

https://www.thirstsnowboards.com/pc "w: nominal 21cm" 

wow!  what a beautiful board.  No I hadn't seen this before.  it's much longer than anything I have ridden before.   hmmmmmmm.   

[CB Utah]

Hey @RRrider, I own a Thirst 181 PC that’s 20 cm wide.  I went from a 156 cm board to a 184.5 cm Thirst 8rw in one season.  I took a chance and never looked back.  I too was initially freaked out about the length but I trusted what others said in Thirst reviews. @big mario and @bigwavedave, I’m lookin’ at you.  Thirsts are anomalies that erased my preconceptions.  Easy to ride neutral on, carve and goof around on.  Hold edges incredibly well across good and bad snow, they’re light and just shriek on ice.  I ride my 181 everywhere and it seems nimble but holds a carve on steep ice.  I can’t describe it but that swallow tail feels long for support in a carve but feels as short as you need to throw a quick fat slash or turn quickly.  Again, brain melted and what I thought I knew has been redefined.  Holler if you make a trip out to Utah or Colorado and you can demo mine if you’re goofy foot. (You too, @Eastsiiiide!)  Non-stylish/non-dramatic photo attached from Assessment at Park City but you get the idea, can ride this board all day everywhere.  Mainly running UPZ RC12’s with F2 Ti Intec at 60 degrees.

Edited March 2 by CB Utah

[RRrider]

1 hour ago, CB Utah said:

Hey @RRrider, I own a Thirst 181 PC that’s 20 cm wide.  I went from a 156 cm board to a 184.5 cm Thirst 8rw in one season.  I took a chance and never looked back.  I too was initially freaked out about the length but I trusted what others said in Thirst reviews. @big mario and @bigwavedave, I’m lookin’ at you.  Thirsts are anomalies that erased my preconceptions.  Easy to ride neutral on, carve and goof around on.  Hold edges incredibly well across good and bad snow, they’re light and just shriek on ice.  I ride my 181 everywhere and it seems nimble but holds a carve on steep ice.  I can’t describe it but that swallow tail feels long for support in a carve but feels as short as you need to throw a quick fat slash or turn quickly.  Again, brain melted and what I thought I knew has been redefined.  Holler if you make a trip out to Utah or Colorado and you can demo mine if you’re goofy foot. (You too, @Eastsiiiide!)  Non-stylish/non-dramatic photo attached from Assessment at Park City but you get the idea, can ride this board all day everywhere.  Mainly running UPZ RC12’s with F2 Ti Intec at 60 degrees.

wow! 
Do you take this long sled into moguls or relatively tight trees as well...?

 

yes I am goofy!  man...this thread is definitely developing a "new need" for me .

[BlueB]

Try to find a used Nidecker Proto, black version, 167 or 163. It's the most versatile board I ever had. It's about 22.7 wide. The newer version, Spectre, is wider, 24+. 

I'm also very happy with Colier BXFR. Bruce can make it in any width you want. It carves better than Nidecker, but it's heavier and has less nose... 

If ordering from custom makers, always specify the softest possible for your weight, for true freeride. 

[bigwavedave]

Since I've been called out here, I will have to say that the Thirst TSm² (202cm TankerSpanker) is my favorite powder carver (and I have both of Mark's swallowtail PC offerings, a 181 & 169).  I have owned and ridden several other boards that have claimed to both carve & float in powder. The carving performance was always disappointing, but not with Thirsts.

The X model EM177 is a scaled down TSm² and might be better for your size. 

The PCjv 169 or CC+ might be a better choice if you really want maneuverability in tight trees and moguls. 

@Keenan is kinda close to you and also a Thirst connoisseur. Might have something you could demo?

[CB Utah]

1 hour ago, RRrider said:

wow! 
Do you take this long sled into moguls or relatively tight trees as well...?

 

yes I am goofy!  man...this thread is definitely developing a "new need" for me .

I’ve been best friends with trees for enduro, MTB and hiking, just not tight trees while snowboarding so I can’t assist with an assessment.  Sorry, I’m more of a scenic open glade type of guy.  I also have a few other boards you can try, including an X model.

Edited March 2 by CB Utah

[lamby]

Modern powder boards are amazing. On new snow/powder days, I ride a 154 Lib Tech Orca as my powder board. Its forgiving and fun directional all-mountain powder board. On my Orca I ride hard boots and plate bindings at 40 rear, 50 degrees front. I'm 5' - 10" and 150 pounds.

It is a wide board and has some very unique design characteristics that help it shine as an all-mountain powder machine that is very useful on groomers too (When the groomers get bumped up, this board's very tight sidecut radius can be a bit challenging as I depart the mountain, but that is probably more about me being tired and that my form is falling apart at day's end, not because anything is "wrong" with the board design (But other boards are easier to ride in such conditions - on bumped up groomers when your tired - but those boards may not be so great off-piste or in deep powder.)

Orca is much more of a powder board than a forgiving carving board that like a Prior 4WD (which is said to be a very nice forgiving carver that can be enjoyed off-piste and in places like bump-runs - I have not ridden one, but aspire to. I ride an old Burton 163 edeck as my forgiving carver that I also enjoy off-piste (but its not a good powder board). Boards like Prior 4WD and Burton E-deck/e-series are soft carvers that are versatile and forgiving. They shine on the groom and are fun off of the groom, or in crud and as the day wears on and the groomers get chopped up They are soft, forgiving carving boards, which is something I really tend to gravitate to on a groomer day. Orca is not a carving board, but it can still carve. The tip is very soft however, so it can not be pressed - one needs to adjust where one applies pressure through a turn with this board.

Orca shines in powder and off-piste, but is pretty great on the groom as you work to the next stash or challenge. It is not a board for days when you plan on harvesting the day's corduroy crop.

Lib Tech Orca is a wide board with a lot of surface area. I ride the 154, and think I would like to try a 150 next time around. I get so much float from the 154 in powder that I feel confident that a 150 would not be too short or lacking in base area to accomodate me. I like the length of mine, but an even shorter version might be sweet. Orcas have short tail, which I like for when I'm in bumps, it comes around nicely, not tending to get hung-up in the tail. Another nice touch on Orca is that the edge is not a full-wrap construction at the tip and tail. This reduces the weight of the tip and tail and is another factor in it being easy to bring tip/tail around quickly (Tip and tail more vulnerable to damage, but I like the weight reduction).

Orcas have a short sidecut radius of 7 m., very turny. Not something many riders here may like, but I find it to be just right for this powder board. It can be ridden slow with tight turns, and it can be opened up and will make very fun big turns too.

Another thing you might want to consider as you look at different boards and board designs is taper. Snowboards designed to be ridden in powder often taper in width from tip to tail. This allows the tail to sink more easily into powder snow. The amount of taper a board has may impact how a board rides on piste, so something to consider. Powder boards also often have a stance set-back that is centered more toward the back of the board, to get the weight of rider back -  to help reduce leg burn from having to put lots of rear weight toward rear of board in powder. Modern powder boards to not cause leg burn, you can drive your weight forward on them to initiate turns.

Travis Rice Lib Tech Orca is an unconventional in its design and construction for sure. The base's contour is something called "banana" technology, and if you look down the length of the board you will see that the camber is indeed unique. It is rockered underfoot with camber underfoot to tip, and camber underfoot to tail, with early rise/lengthen camber tip and tail. Talk about wavy gravy! But it works. Stability, control, pop, float. It was so weird looking. When I demoed it I couldn't believe it would ride well, but it does. It rides great.

If you are looking for something with a more traditional camber profile, consider the Burton Home Town Hero, also to be ridden smaller than you typically ride by around 10 cm. Have heard very good reviews of Home Town Heros, riders calling them very versatile all-mountain directional powder boards that rip on the groom. HTH also a tight side-cut board - much more powder leaning that groomer leaning (that's my understanding, as I have not ridden HTH, but aspire to).

Best of luck with your continued fun search for a great powder ride. So many designs and options!

[lamby]

I mis-wrote, my Orca is 153, not 154.

[leeho730]

If you can get a hold of one or if you can ask Frank to make one, Virus UFC 163.

I don’t really know how Frank designed the nose flex, but it floats very well in powder and slays the moguls. For example; if I see a slope with shallow moguls (4 inch high), then I would point the nose straight down and let the board do the work. I don’t know how the nose does it, but it’s certainly pleasing to bulldoze through moguls and even catch some speed in the process. 
 

EDIT: I also have Donek Metal FC 163, 20cm width. Boot size is 25. UFC has width of 20cm, I think. Length is 163. 
 

EDIT 2: below are links for reviews posted by members here:

 

 

Edited March 4 by leeho730

[barryj]

On 2/29/2024 at 4:37 PM, RRrider said:

any off the shelf board l

RR,  you owe it to yourself to check out the Moss Snowstick lineup!

https://www.mosssnowstick.com/23-24

Not the skinny width your looking for but my daily driver on the comeback trail, post hamstring (July) and ankle (Nov.) surgeries is a Moss PQ60 26.5W (I'm on my 3rd Moss PQ and just ordered next years Moss PQ's stiffer  "EX" version!)  in TD3 SW SI's and Modo 28 older model Black and Green Track 425 Pro hardboots -with softer tongue and softer liner and stock 5 position lean.  I'm running 50/55 angles currently, which is about as low as my ankle will stand as I had been at 60/65 on this board (which is the angles set on all my other boards) no problem at all.

Yes I've tried numerous times to adapt to the "toes to the edge"  binding setup but I find it's just to uncomfortable and I lose performance and always end back up at steeper angles.

All Moss boards has huge setback which makes it floats effortless like a surfboard and is a very surfy ride.....that can also Lay Out Carves On The Same Run!   I don't know another board that can do both without you having to change your angles and/or stance for the desired discipline.   

These are serious Pow Slayers!  Check them out...

https://www.mosssnowstick.com/

There's a Moss dealer here in Tahoe.  Tahoe Sports Hub in Truckee has the entire Moss Armada for sale and in there Demo Fleet  if you ever get down this way. 

 

Edited March 3 by barryj

[boardguru]

Along with looking at Thirst snowboards for a board built to your specs, you should also look into Winterstick snowboards. They have been making snowboards for surfing snow since 1972. And can make your custom, or prebuilt dream ride come true.

[philw]

On 2/29/2024 at 4:37 PM, RRrider said:

ok, as some of you know from another thread, I'm going down all the adjustments to see if I can't make my present powder board (154 K2 Excavator, with 26.5 waist) work. but I'm struggling, and so in parallel I want to start researching my other options of getting a powder board that fits.

Present carving board:  FC Metal Donek, 163, 18 waist, 60/55 angles.  great in almost all conditions but sinks in deep snow and gets caught up in moguls (as I go allover the mountain).  I'm about 5' 8", 155lbs.  Happy with board.

But on days when the snow is deep:  I just need to have a board that floats better...less of sinker. ..

So yeah, there are lots of ways to skin this one. My approach is very different from most hard booters, but I came to it through evolution. I just finished a couple more weeks riding helicopters. 

Decades ago I discovered that powder boards work really well in powder. I mean proper powder boards - Burton, Capita, whatever mainstream boards, not the "all mountain" products of niche hard boot manufacturers. No disrespect to Mr Kessler, whose slalom boards are supreme, but I'm not looking at him for my powder boards. I know there's no real difference between a soft and hard booter in powder, so what works for them works for me.

The Donek board there... the waist is too narrow, it's really hard to balance laterally with that sort of width, and obviously you end up with angles which don't work well in powder. I'd guess the flex isn't right for powder either - you particularly need a tail flex which is right for powder, as the tail is the speed-control device. 

My board is 24cm at the waist (1.44 Hometown Hero). I could not sensibly balance my Kessler 156 SL in bottomless powder. A powder board is wider and softer, so easier to balance on all axes. Balance is massively important in powder; everything else is easy. A powder board will also be soft enough in the right places to ride moguls well too.

I would find a powder board you like the sound of, then use the angles you need to ride that, which I think should be more like 40/30 than those old school steep angles. Size/ length: use the manufacturer's recommendations.

"float" More surface area makes the board easier to get on the plane, which is relevant if you ride mellow terrain (Japan...) or if you can't read terrain and ride skier tracks across the flats (BC). But it's more of a balance issue than a "sinking" issue. You don't sink; smaller boards just take more speed to get on the plane.

Novices fall over and stop all the time, both of which are easier with a bigger board. A big board is easier on very mellow terrain, but I only ride that when nothing else is available and it's not great even on a big board, so I just suck up the marginally worse planing performance of my small board then. 

I would certainly not "go smaller" than you're comfortable with. There are lots of board designs, some with more tail/ length and some with less. Try a few and pick one you're comfortable with. You're compromising performance ("twitchiness") against ease of balance at slow speeds in deep snow.

I got "smaller" over time because more experience allows that, but I started on bigger boards and only downsized when I was ready. It's the same as with windsurfers. Some boards (like Fish) have particularly short tails, which some folk find easier to ride in deep snow, although you lose some control without a tail.

I think the OP's text "sounds right". I'd try various boards and pick the one you like. I love my Hometown Hero, the first powder board I have had which is equally capable on hardpack. I can carve circles indoors (!) on this thing, and also rip bottomless powder. But it's not a novice (in powder) board; most people I've seen try one don't like it (too stiff, too small..). I think the stiffness of this board works really well with the power you can generate with hard boots (it's probably better with hardboots than soft).

I cannot ride hardpack with overhang or underhang, so the board width has to be right for the angles I'm happy to use.







 

[lamby]

17 hours ago, barryj said:

All Moss boards has huge setback which makes it floats effortless like a surfboard and is a very surfy ride.....that can also Lay Out Carves On The Same Run!   I don't know another board that can do both without you having to change your angles and/or stance for the desired discipline.   

These are serious Pow Slayers!  Check them out...

https://www.mosssnowstick.com/

Sound awesome, and sure are beautiful.

[lamby]

6 hours ago, boardguru said:

Along with looking at Thirst snowboards for a board built to your specs, you should also look into Winterstick snowboards. They have been making snowboards for surfing snow since 1972. And can make your custom, or prebuilt dream ride come true.

Great local shop in Ketchum, Idaho (The Waxroom) has some great looking Winterstick demos. They were sharing them out last year, when we had lots of snow. Shop owner Curtis Bacca is friends with one of the owners of Winterstick (or has some kind of close relationship with someone associated with the company), thus why this ski and snowboard tuning shop has Wintersticks for use by interested patrons. Earlier this year they had the Wintersticks on display, but our lack of snow had them holding them until we got more coverage. We've gotten snow, so I need to stop in and see if they are allowing people to ride them again. One of the shop employees said that the boards are not for sale, but were being made available as a way to help introduce people to the products. If you like them, The Waxroom telling people to contact the company. Looking forward to trying some Wintersticks!

[BlueB]

On 3/3/2024 at 6:22 AM, barryj said:

All Moss boards has huge setback which makes it floats effortless like a surfboard and is a very surfy ride.....that can also Lay Out Carves On The Same Run!   I don't know another board that can do both without you having to change your angles and/or stance for the desired discipline.   

Actually, there are many. Dynastar 4807 comes to mind, immediately. 

[SunSurfer]

@philw rides a lot of fresh untracked snow and his advice is backed by that experience.

At the angles he was suggesting, 40 front &  30 rear, most hardbooters will benefit from some inward cant of their boots to reduce lateral stress on their knees. Just seen you are riding Trench Diggers. The cant disc design of these is ideal for experimenting with nuanced canting.

Personal message me if you want the long explanation why inward canting might be helpful. Otherwise just experiment with gradually increasing amounts of cant, until you find the most comfortable settings for you.

You can then transfer those cant settings to your F2s by making wedges of the appropriate angle. F2 standard wedges just come as 3 degrees.

Edited March 4 by SunSurfer
Rider uses Trench Diggers but has bought F2 Titanflex. Info in a separate thread.

[Jack M]

Here's a cheap idea!

 

[CB Utah]

I think @philw has some of the more interesting perspectives, based on the shear number of powder days.  I say you go helicopter or snowcat boarding and experimentally try at least two differing approaches.  (And invite me because, yeah, you need someone to document it)