Beginner/ Intermediate Carver - Board Upgrade - Advice sought

[Charlie2021]

Hi everyone!

I am looking for some advice. I would consider myself a Beginner/ Intermediate snowboarder. I have been boarding for 20 years - however, that would only mean one week per season sometimes, other times a number of weekends, and some years, no snowboarding at all. 

I have nearly always used soft boots and a Burton bullet board that was about 20 years old. 

However, two years ago I made the jump to an alpine board and hard boots. I used to have dreams of becoming good enough to go to the snow park, learn tricks etc.

The reality was, I was becoming middle aged, not getting in enough time on the snow every year, and usually spending my time on groomed pistes. 

I was finding that using the Burton bullet on the piste was a killer - I was always fighting to slow down, wobbling on flat sections and generally not enjoying it on the piste (it probably was designed for fresh snow).

The change to an alpine board was fantastic. I have much more control, can do nice carves and rarely find myself catching an edge. I also feel safer on the piste than before and the board really seems to leave me less exhausted than before. 

So, finally to my questions. I picked up a second hand Rossignol "xlr" 163cm board two years ago. I have no idea if it is the right size for me, but I really enjoy it. I bought some new bindings and a pair of Deluxe Track 700 boots. 

I weigh about 86kg / 13.54 stone / 13 stone, 7.6 lbs / 194lbs. I am 5' 11 or 1,80m in height and I am 45 years old.

I will attach some photos here:

https://justpaste.it/992nu

Now, I imagine that this board is very old and that design has improved greatly. I would consider upgrading my board if you guys think there is something out there I should try?

I live in Barcelona, and occasionally some used boards pop for sale second hand. I would like advice on what I should keep an eye out for?

Would an F2 Speedster Equipe RS or a Silberpfeil be something I should try out?

I imagine that longer boards, will involve bigger turns and higher speed to get them to work. I enjoy some speed, but control and safety are paramount to me. 

Any advice would be appreciated. Hopefully my situation will be also helpful to other boarders who perhaps have my experience and are experimenting with used boards. 

Cheers!

Charlie. 

 

[Aracan]

Board design has come a long way since your Rossi was new, so any board from the last ten years or so will make big difference. The question is what you want your board to do. Dedicated groomer boards come in different flavors from slalom to GS and EC. Since you are in Europe, the majority of used boards will be F2, with some Virus, Kessler and Oxess in between. These are all renowned brands. Unfortunately I have no personal experience with any of them.

There is also Swoard, which focus on EC but can be ridden in a quite relaxed manner, I am told.

And finally Pureboarding, which are dedicated do-all boards. I love mine, but they rarely appear in the classifieds.

[Charlie2021]

Thanks for the swift response Aracan. Much obliged. 

I have noticed a lot of F2 boards being sold second hand indeed.

Could you recommend a place, for someone who is an beginner/intermediate such as myself, to research which board is most suitable?

What is my style ? - I guess carving groomed pistes, which often involves avoiding others!

My fear is that I order a board that is too long, and that I cannot control it unless I am doing 100kph!

Thanks again, and sorry if my question is too generic.

Regards. 

 

 

 

 

 

[scottishsurfer]

Softbooter and very ocasional hardbooter so take what i say with a grain of salt. Id say flex and sidecut will have more effect over control ability and speed required far more than length.

[Charlie2021]

Thanks scottishsurfer

[Neil Gendzwill]

If you search this site you can find lots of previous discussion on the Silberpfeil and F2 in general.  It's a board that's been around a long time and has gone through changes throughout the years so I would look for more recent discussion.  IIRC it's pretty well regarded as a carving all-rounder.

Short doesn't necessarily mean easy to ride, some of those short race boards can kick your ass.

[Eboot]

Also on the forum there have been many similar questions with pages of answers and suggestions.  You can search on various theme around new, newby, starter etc

Any decision you make should take your expectations into account. 
It will be important to know what your typical terrain will be like.  If you have narrow groomers, a shorter side cut radius (SCR) may be more practical than longer.
If you intend to use your board on various parts of the mountain, using a more versatile free board will probably be more practical than a race specific board.
Many start off with a single compromise board that provide a medium SCR and softer flex allowing for general carving on various parts of the mountain.  Once you have decided what you prefer and want to spend more money on, the second hand market for boards is pretty robust and you should be able to resell well looked after boards pretty easily.

Last point: the shorter the side cut radius, the narrower the carve tends to be, all other things being equal, but you need to work harder as there are more turns in the same distance.

My 2 cents suggestion would be to look for a board of about 170 length and SCR about 12, but there are way more qualified people here to better advise you then me

This was my own thread 4 years ago which had some great advice in it:

 

[Charlie2021]

4 minutes ago, Eboot said:

Also on the forum there have been many similar questions with pages of answers and suggestions.  You can search on various theme around new, newby, starter etc

Any decision you make should take your expectations into account. 
It will be important to know what your typical terrain will be like.  If you have narrow groomers, a shorter side cut radius (SCR) may be more practical than longer.
If you intend to use your board on various parts of the mountain, using a more versatile free board will probably be more practical than a race specific board.
Many start off with a single compromise board that provide a medium SCR and softer flex allowing for general carving on various parts of the mountain.  Once you have decided what you prefer and want to spend more money on, the second hand market for boards is pretty robust and you should be able to resell well looked after boards pretty easily.

Last point: the shorter the side cut radius, the narrower the carve tends to be, all other things being equal, but you need to work harder as there are more turns in the same distance.

My 2 cents suggestion would be to look for a board of about 170 length and SCR about 12, but there are way more qualified people here to better advise you then me

This was my own thread 4 years ago which had some great advice in it:

 

Thanks eBoot. 

" 170 length and SCR about 12"

That is some solid advice that I can start searching with. 

I will also check out your links. 

Cheers

 

55 minutes ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

If you search this site you can find lots of previous discussion on the Silberpfeil and F2 in general.  It's a board that's been around a long time and has gone through changes throughout the years so I would look for more recent discussion.  IIRC it's pretty well regarded as a carving all-rounder.

Short doesn't necessarily mean easy to ride, some of those short race boards can kick your ass.

Cheers Neil. I am from Ireland but moved to Barcelona 4 years ago. Finally I have ski resorts within driving distance - but not so much surfing! On the west coast of Ireland I had surging spots within the same distance I have snow now. I will look through these pages and see what I find. 

[Neil Gendzwill]

Regarding SCR - I have one board with variable sidecut 12-14, and another with a tighter one around 10.  The tighter sidecut is definitely more versatile.  So I agree with Eboot, SCR 12 m and under will likely work for you, and 170 (give or take a couple cm) is a versatile length.

[Charlie2021]

cheers guys. 

I'll check out some sites for boards. I see a lot on eBay.de.

It'll be interesting what a newer board that is 170cm in length will feel like after the ancient 163 board I have!

I see a lot of these kind of boards with discounts:

F2 Alpin Race snowboard Speedster RS equipe ~ 179 cm

https://www.ebay.es/itm/274355928066

Are you guys fans of F2 boards? They seem to be everywhere for sale online - a lot more than Donek and the others.

 

[dredman]

We have some really exceptional board builders in the US and Canada.  I would highly recommend getting in touch with them and having them build you a custom board.  They will listen to your riding story and build you a dream ride.  

 

[Eboot]

8 minutes ago, dredman said:

We have some really exceptional board builders in the US and Canada.  I would highly recommend getting in touch with them and having them build you a custom board.  They will listen to your riding story and build you a dream ride.  

 

100% agreed

F2 is well known in the USA but not as common as in Europe.  See the thread below. 

 

[BlueB]

Welcome on board! 

Since you are in Spain, also look at OES, too. They make tons of models at affordable prices. You might be able to demo too. 

Almost any newer board would be better than that Rosi. The boards have come long way since then.

Next question is how/where you'd use your new board. If it gets busy, choppy, slushy, narrow and you occasionally go to ungoomed runs, than a narrow race/free carve won't cut it. Silber is a great board but you'll need another one too, for less than ideal conditions. Or, just settle for a h/boot specific all-mountain board. Like 21+ wide (23 is better), bigger nose, slightly rounded tail, mellower flex, 10m or less radius... 

Bindings you've got are excellent for freeride. Keep them for your new all-mountain. Get something stiffer for carving only, maybe F2 Race. 

 

[nextcarve]

2 hours ago, Charlie2021 said:

 

F2 Alpin Race snowboard Speedster RS equipe ~ 179 cm

https://www.ebay.es/itm/274355928066

 

 

In your case I would not go for a 179 Speedster, because it has a pretty big 16m sidecut radius. The 169 with 14m or the 163 SL with 9.8m sitecut are more agile.

But if you're more into freecarving, than a Silberpfeil 168 (11m) or 172 (12m) might be your choice.
 

1 hour ago, BlueB said:

Welcome on board! 

Since you are in Spain, also look at OES, too. They make tons of models at affordable prices. You might be able to demo too. 

OES boards look very tempting. In your case especially the 169 FC (variable sidecut 9 – 13 m) may fit:
https://www.oes.cat/index.php/en/our-production/freecarving/169fc
If you can afford it, I would buy the titanal version, which is more forgiving.
 

Last but not least at all, I would consider a SG Full Carve 163 or 170:
https://www.sgsnowboards.com/snowboards/sg-full-carve/

They also have variable sidecut radius, modern shape and good value for the price.

[jburk]

SG also has the newer Black model, fits right in with what you're looking for:

https://www.sgsnowboards.com/snowboards/b-l-a-c-k/

A new board purchase will probably not be advisable until you've sorted out the characteristics your looking for, but if you come across one of these used it would be worth a look. 

The used market is great for trying out different lengths, SCR, shapes, etc. You can often resell for close to what you paid. 

ps. The SG FullCarve 170 is a nominally 15.8m SCR. Great board, but larger a radius than I think you're currently looking for.  

[Mr.E]

Is there anything in specific you are looking to change/ improve on with a new board? There are a bunch of options, but it really depends on what you like and what you might want to change with the next one. Its real easy to jump into a bigger board that, while it might be fun long term, could be a real challange short term. If you are generally enjoying what you are on and don't want to work too hard durig your limited snow days, you might opt for something similar to your current ride spec wise, but with newer build details.

If that is one of the full wood core boards made in Spain, they were actually pretty fun/ easy to ride. I had a 183 race deck from that generation.

 

 

 

[Eboot]

FYI
This is probably not a titanal board but is a great transition board for what you are looking for.
It would obviously require shipping from the US.

 

[wulf]

@Charlie2021 - I'd vote for sticking as close to your Rossi as possbile given your limited time on snow per year. 

I'd recommend a F2 Silberpfeil Vantange 162 for you. Easy to ride, precise carving due to torsional stiffness. Modern shape. Do NOT go for the 168. That would be a to big step for you.

I do ride the 162 myself. It's the only board I have. Riding in croweded EU resorts like Austrian Alps & Dolomites. I am 185cm @90kg.

Take a look at i-carve.com. Hop to the outlet section and ask for pricing.

 

 

Edited September 25, 2021 by wulf

[Corey]

4 hours ago, wulf said:

@Charlie2021 - I'd vote for sticking as close to your Rossi as possbile given your limited time on snow per year. 

I'd recommend a F2 Silberpfeil Vantange 162 for you. Easy to ride, precise carving due to torsional stiffness. Modern shape. Do NOT go for the 168. That would be a to big step for you.

I do ride the 162 myself. It's the only board I have. Riding in croweded EU resorts like Austrian Alps & Dolomites. I am 185cm @90kg.

Take a look at i-carve.com. Hop to the outlet section and ask for pricing.

Great advice! We have some great board builders in North America, but there are also great builders closer to you. Go easy and cheaper to start and save that money for a upgrade later if you decide this is the sport for you. 

Stick to a smaller sidecut radius. 10-11m. My 2nd board was a 13m or 14m - it scared me and wasn't that fun. I wasn't ready for it. Granted, I don't have wide runs, so YMMV. 

[philw]

Barcelona, eh, cool place. That's an old video of somewhere you'll likely recognise.

For Europe, I'd buy a European car and a European snowboard. As people pointed out you can't read too much into length as performance is more about flex and design and materials. Hence you can't expect to compare boards of similar lengths over time, or even across manufacturers, or even within a manufacturer. Not all manufacturers are good on their recommended weight range (they make them broad to increase sales but it makes it hard to choose without riding).

I'd look out for stuff which is modern, as I like modern boards better. I'd avoid extreme stuff (massive American boards or very narrow Virus boards). I like F2 stuff a lot, and there's a lot of it about. They have multiple constructions and the designs aren't all consistent, so you really need to check whatever you think you may like.

Quote

I imagine that longer boards, will involve bigger turns and higher speed to get them to work. I enjoy some speed, but control and safety are paramount to me. 

That's a 156 in the video in ordinary use in the video.

I haven 't ridden the Rossi so don't know how it may be. If you could describe what it feels like, and what you'd like to work better, then that may give some pointers. I've owned a few boards, but not enough to make any sensible statistics.

Personally I like "slalom style" boards, but there are quite a few different styles and until you've ridden a few it's hard to know what would work best.

Finally.. there are lots of places in Europe where you can demo boards. There's nothing to stop you "demoing" a new board then using the experience gained to look for one 2nd hand. Check the manufacturers' websites and they may have information on where they are going to be attending things, or look for "Carving Masters" or other similar events.

Those events have a second secret weapon, too....  other people who can show you what works, or even lend you gear.


 

 

 

 

[TimW]

I'd say stick with shorter/smaller sidecut radius boards for now. Much better to progress and become a better snowboarder. For F2 the vantage 162 seems a good advice, or the speedster sl 163. Or an 162-ish sl board from another alpine snowboard maker.

And keep the rossi for now! It is not guaranteed that you will immediately like the new board better. It does not sound like you really 'need' a new board*. You are so positive about it that it seems you have not yet run into its limits.

*of course everybody needs more boards

[daveo]

2 hours ago, TimW said:

It does not sound like you really 'need' a new board*.

Kind of sounds like every board purchase for me ever.

[Charlie2021]

Chicos! So much positive, generous and helpful advice. You really have the right attitude for a forum. So many times one can find snarky, snide and sarcastic "tips" on forums. None of that here. Thank you.

You are correct - I am happy with my old Rossi. In comparison to battling my old Burton Bullet on the piste - this thing is a joy. However, at times it fees like it has a few drawbacks:

1. When I try to join up some turns, it is difficult to do. I find it hard to link them together.

2. I find that I am turning quite often to control my speed.

That said - I probably need to get more "snow time" down and to build up my experience. I also probably need to build up my quads... 45 is not young. 

To summarise your kind advice, I think I will keep an eye out for a used/ outlet deal board that is something like an 

F2 Vantage 162, or a

Speedster SL 163.

Or an 162-ish sl board from another alpine snowboard maker (as suggested).

I don't think I will fork out €600 plus on a board yet (I picked up the Rossi for I think €50).

If I come across a used board for €200/€300 however, now I will know what kind of board I should start with.

I know from surfing that it is easy to accumulate a quiver of boards that never get used (I have semi-gun surfboard from Indonesia and I live on the Med now  )

I appreciate the advice guys. I now have an idea of what to look out for!

Now to set alerts on classified websites.

Muchas gracias. 

 

 

 

 

 

[Neil Gendzwill]

I think you’ll find a lot of us here on the far side of 45. That’s long past in my rear view. 
 

As far as linking turns together, that is likely a skill issue more than equipment, it will come with practice. Modern equipment can help but it still requires a skilled operator. I have seen people fall into the trap of searching constantly for the board that will magically make them a carving machine but what’s really required is some snow time and some instruction.
 

Regarding turning often to control speed: that’s what we do all the time. Or at least some of us, I confess to getting bored of pretty short turns from time to time and charging the hill at a higher than strictly recommended speed…

[wulf]

@Charlie2021 i-carve have dropped price. Vantage 162 is 70%off for a model of previous seasons. Will be barely 200€ now I guess ...

https://beta.carver.si/snowboards/outlet/snowboard_outlet

Edited September 27, 2021 by wulf