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6th sense boot

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Hi guys

These boots most likely will be available next year from Sense snowboard maker Andrej Cerne

Who is curious?

 

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Edited by slapos
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I'm curious.

That being said I am much more interested in a softboot replacement rather than another hardboot. If I could find a boot that would do that (cough, backland, cough) I would be all over it!

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Their site- http://www.sense4.me/en/rd/

says:

snowboard boot made from carbon fiber - 6th SENSE

In season 2016/17, after five years of development, a racing snowboard boot made from carbon fiber - 6th SENSE, is coming. The boot is a pinnacle of our R & D team, which will surely dictate the future trends in the production of snowboard and ski hard boots made of carbon.

A lot of potential... that said Dodge Carbon fiber boots have shown there's a lot of FUD and issues to overcome.  I wish him the best of luck.

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1 hour ago, slapos said:

Hi guys

These boots most likely will be available next year from Sense snowboard maker Andrej Cerne

Who is curious?

 

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More photos and details... Are thy still making sticks? 

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Interesting and following. It is great to see another company trying to introduce another HB boot to give us more options. I hope they succeed and wish them luck.  My first reaction to seeing the shape reminded me of cross between a Burton Furnace boot and the new Mountain Slope.

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1 hour ago, lowrider said:

Intec heel or you miss out on major interest from large portion of your market !

Also the price will affect the major interest from large portion of the market. 

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They say price will be approx 1.5k euro.

 

There is people that pay that for board or plate. Why not for boots ?

Edited by slapos
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Currently mountain slope sells the world cup boot at 1k euro.

I am glad to see further development and competition in the hardboot dept.

For sure I will try them boots 

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It's too much for me, but for a handmade small batch carbon product it doesn't seem out of line. Comparing it to a bike frame, surfboard, etc.

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Glad to see more choices but I’m not sure what problem they are solving with CF. Grilamid .951s are already lightweight and stiff enough. 

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They might not be solving any materials problem. Carbon might just be a material they have a process for that yields a result they want. One of those results might simply be to have a carbon boot.

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If they managed to drop the ramp angle further and make it even lighter, that's already a success. 

The heel block still looks tucked in too much, tough. 

As for the carbon fibre tongue, I'm not 100% sure if its a good idea to have a 3d curved structure that has to flex repetitively. 

Also, for a small run, the molds for composite lamination are a lot cheaper than injection molds. 

Well done Andrej and co! Great to have another option. 

Edited by BlueB

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I spoke some time ago with Andrej when I saw the boots. 

If memory servers me right He said that one boot will weight approx 1.5 kgs without liner, which was half of what my upz weighted at the time.

The boots have been tested in Europe and Asia by both carvers and racers.

All reviews are super positive.

Slovenian snowboard team has tested them, advised minimal changes and I would not be surprised to see these in world cup next season. 

As soon as I lay may hands on them I will post more pix.

There is a few options to test these in EU at one of the carving sessions.

Peace

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Do heavier boots contribute to damping? What advantage do lighter boots give? Apart from convenience for flying

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2 hours ago, nigelc said:

Do heavier boots contribute to damping?

No. 

2 hours ago, nigelc said:

What advantage do lighter boots give?

Less unsprung weight. 

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On 1/19/2020 at 5:17 PM, nigelc said:

Do heavier boots contribute to damping?

Depends on context, application, etc. Considering the mass and materials used in most of the 'higher end' boards, the effect of the boot is likely overbalanced by the rest of the system.

That said, it's harder for a given input to 'displace' the greater mass.

On 1/19/2020 at 5:17 PM, nigelc said:

What advantage do lighter boots give?

Again, depends on the rider, gear selection, and technique. And again, probably won't make much difference for the most popular configurations.

That said, in most athletic situations requiring cyclical changes in direction or displacement, lighter footwear is considered an advantage. 

It used to be you could to get a bicycle racing frame with either 'road race' or 'criterium' geometry. The former was more stable for longer events over greater distances. The latter was for precise and rapid handling in close quarters. In that context, the twitchier handling characteristics would let you essentially 'put the bike wherever you needed to be'.

Similarly, on the feet of a skilled rider, on a board with favorable rebound characteristics, lighter boots will allow that rider to exit/enter/modulate a turn faster and with greater accuracy.

One of the primary gains associated with the use of carbon fiber in footwear is the 0ptimized 'transmissibility' of the material. Which is to say, your brain has a much better understanding of what is going on under the feet on account of better, faster, cleaner data transmission.

Think cable/broadband v dial-up.

The process of maintaining equilibrium in the athletic context can burn a lot of energy in short order, so when you make it easier to 'balance', you by default make the athlete more 'effective'.

This may be one of the reasons why runners are faster in the Nike Vaporfly series. Less energy devoted to equilibrium means more available for propulsion.

Of course, that carbon effect is mitigated by other materials between the boot shell and the snow.  If you already ride a damp board/binding combo, a carbon boot shell will simply confirm that, rather than fully enhancing snow feel. 

On the other hand, there are many situations where additional data is simply wasted or unwelcome*. 

And few have any practical side-by-side experience with carbon element footwear, so it's difficult to justify.

 

-> *I heard that some athletes on the Dodge ski boot had difficulty sorting the signal from the noise, and that situation 'detracted' from their performance.

 Or at least their perception of same. 

 

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On 1/19/2020 at 10:17 PM, nigelc said:

Do heavier boots contribute to damping? What advantage do lighter boots give? Apart from convenience for flying

My main motivation was convenience for flying, when switching from the HSPs to Backland Carbon boots. Plus 25 or so years of technical boot development which skiers have enjoyed. Even Mountain Slope is an old design. The "Sense" boots look interesting. 

I would say that the clever bit about modern Carbon boots is that they achieve similar performance at less weight; the Carbon is probably used to deliver that, rather than to deliver something you don't want (greater stiffness). Carbon is probably also more stable over a range of temperatures and stress. It's a composite so you can engineer it very precisely. 

Lighter boots.... feel lighter. It may be psychological, and mostly I don't notice, but when jumping my gear definitely feels lighter. Perhaps it's like "power to weight ratio" in a car. With the race bike analogy, I want the lightest machine I can get at a reasonable price. I'm not going to drill the components out, but lighter always feels better. 

Heavier boots... you could buy some ankle weights and strap a kilo on each ankle to see the benefits of that at a cheap price today. Metal boards actually use metal and rubber for their dampening effect, it's not specifically mass which is the issue.

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