bobdea Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) They really friggin’ hurt. really though other than that. i have a new set of drivers, I like them, sort of. They are better than the old malamutes. So, for a long time most high end boots came in one of two configurations either a hinge type that works better but they are much softer or like the driver where to flex forward it forces the boot to deform this crushes the foot, that shit hurts and it’s because the driver has no hinge. It looks like it’s still this way with most brands.. I’ve had a couple sets of 32s and Burtons that hinge, this is a better design, why the hell cant they just build one with a stiffer tongue? Anyone have an answer to that? Pictured is a hinged design.. I actually forgot I had these boots. Edited April 3, 2018 by bobdea Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 The vans infuse pat moore have a hinge design similar to what you have on the 32's(tm-two?) there reasonably stiff with inserts in the tongue so you can control the flex. The part of the design i don't like is that they really need an extra set of eyelets above the power strap, I actually prefer riding my modified implants for this reason which have a kind of semi hinge design. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 (edited) straps crush feet or maintain slop/foot roll; re-adjusted every lift ride lace-up stepins will never have the smooth progressive flex of a plastic shell; plastic shell can be made to flex as soft as lace-up snow slippers w/exoskeletal bindings if you want that, even duckfoot, splitboarders have proven that. never met a soft boot that was worth schite after 50 days let a lone hundreds of days;. wear from straps on sewn patches of material are a weak point. negating designed obsolescence is bad for future business; we're lucky they don't sue us "skibooters" for loss of future profits, burton Device(stepon) around $1000 deeluxe w/F2 intec around $1000 which one will be usable in a decade? Edited April 3, 2018 by b0ardski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 I think before I can agree or disagree, I need to set up my softboots the same as my hardboots - with custom footbeds and molded Intuition liners. I just haven't spent enough time in softboots to feel motivated to do all that, but I think I'm there now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 5 hours ago, b0ardski said: straps crush feet or maintain slop/foot roll; re-adjusted every lift ride lace-up stepins will never have the smooth progressive flex of a plastic shell; plastic shell can be made to flex as soft as lace-up snow slippers w/exoskeletal bindings if you want that, even duckfoot, splitboarders have proven that. never met a soft boot that was worth schite after 50 days let a lone hundreds of days;. wear from straps on sewn patches of material are a weak point. negating designed obsolescence is bad for future business; we're lucky they don't sue us "skibooters" for loss of future profits, burton Device(stepon) around $1000 deeluxe w/F2 intec around $1000 which one will be usable in a decade? Ahh, I wasn’t harping on any of that. What I was getting at was was the hinged boots are better but I can’t find one that’s stiff enough. The point was that they (hinge jobs) flex in way that resembles what a decent hardboot does and works better. But when building firmer boots most of the companies take the easy way out and go old school. What Im wondering is it because of material limitations or material cost limitation or that no one wants to spend on R&D? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 Also looking for ideas on mods i don’t like third strap and wings on bindings. i am however considering the flow unistrap thing on a set of regular bindings. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 If I weren’t so fat I’d probably be happy in ions or protons...... Getting a coiler built with a 275 waist really want to make it work pain free! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 3, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 This is also that for whatever reason I’m better off in softboots. Feel totally balanced and everything but my feet are on fire.... hardboots, don’t feel comfortable riding the things in terms of balance but holy shit, pain free feet! Thats a special hell to live in, love it though, my daughter all she wants to do is ride now. I went from five days in five years to five days in three weeks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted April 3, 2018 Report Share Posted April 3, 2018 this is my modified vans implant franken not so softboot. :old tongue from a donor boot has three plastic strips bonded to it one centrally and two angled over the bend to limit it wanting to flex out as it tries to flex forward. :the donor tongue is stuck to the outside of the boots vastly stiffening it up. :the spine of the boot has a another two plastic stips bonded down the back of the inside of the boot outer. :bigger power strap sewn to the outside of the boot outer the buckle clip is just there to keep it need and give something nice and big to pull on when pulling it tight. they are incredibly stiff with very little flex i like this set up but its defintely not for everyone. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spiny Norman Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 I don't like soft boot binding straps across my feet. thats why i went back to my good ol' Burton SI's with Driver SI's. i really like being attached to the board by the sole (mostly kind of) rather than being scrunched on to the board. i just gave up on Flows this winter. if i eventually have to go back to straps i will use my Koflach plastic mountain boots again as the shell distributes the weight nicely. the long bsl is tough though. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) 8 hours ago, Jack Michaud said: I think before I can agree or disagree, I need to set up my softboots the same as my hardboots - with custom footbeds and molded Intuition liners. I just haven't spent enough time in softboots to feel motivated to do all that, but I think I'm there now. I did this a few yrs ago; same board same conditions same day same angles 30r/45f swapping driver Xs and flows with raichle 124s and nitro stepin plates on a173 all mt board, the differences were minimal but significant; progressive flex being primary, convenience a close second; plastic shells and stepin plates worked the board with less effort and equal finesse Edited April 4, 2018 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 The boots can be stiff but if the connection to the board isn't.... This Sunday I did an experiment and set my softboots at high angles (45/36) never again! I know some can make it work but the connection wasn't there. Going back to 27/9 made a lot more sense. The boots are very stiff and supportive but the bindings simply did not transfer the lateral movement. Could it be the Burton "autocant"? Possibly. Not going to try it again without making sure my connection is a lot more solid. Then again, if I need a solid connection then why not hardboots? I'll agree with what's written above. The difference is in how you power the board. Honestly The HB stance makes more sense to me for going down groomers and the sideways stance makes more sense in places where I need more (and faster) control. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 IMHO, in softboots, higher than 15 degrees on the back foot and you start losing toeside power. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) Guess that's why I prefer hardshells, to do it all at angles that negate dreaded toedrag Edited April 4, 2018 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
b0ardski Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) as for sb mods, cut up skiboot tongues is the only thing I've tried I did like the 3rd strap back in the day for response but a pain on short lifts Edited April 4, 2018 by b0ardski Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobdea Posted April 4, 2018 Author Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 45 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said: IMHO, in softboots, higher than 15 degrees on the back foot and you start losing toeside power. Yup, much above 30-35 in front is problematic as well. Like riding hardboots at 30 degrees, some serious drawbacks. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) 19 hours ago, scottishsurfer said: this is my modified vans implant franken not so softboot. :old tongue from a donor boot has three plastic strips bonded to it one centrally and two angled over the bend to limit it wanting to flex out as it tries to flex forward. :the donor tongue is stuck to the outside of the boots vastly stiffening it up. :the spine of the boot has a another two plastic stips bonded down the back of the inside of the boot outer. :bigger power strap sewn to the outside of the boot outer the buckle clip is just there to keep it need and give something nice and big to pull on when pulling it tight. they are incredibly stiff with very little flex i like this set up but its defintely not for everyone. Thanks @scottishsurfer!!!! A few questions as I am very interested in trying this myself: 1- What did you use for the plastic strips? 2- Are they stiffer then those supplied by Vans in some of their boots? 3- What glue did you use to bond them to the tongue? 4- Was the donor tongue from the same model boot or something different? 5- And was it from a bigger size boot or similar to your own? I am using the 2018 Driver X with Scarpa Plus Fit High (wrap style) liners with custom made wide power straps to keep the liner stiffer and snug to my shins. Flex is close to perfect on colder days, but they become way to soft on warmer days. Even when cranking the laces uncomfortably way too tight. I think a custom add-on tongue similar to yours would be the perfect solution. Edited April 4, 2018 by Mig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scottishsurfer Posted April 4, 2018 Report Share Posted April 4, 2018 (edited) 1: The plastic stripping is just something i got from the local DIY store i originally got it to put down the spine of the boot to reduce its side ways flex hence it be curved so it would match the curve of the boot back. I think its pvc but its reasonably stiff due to its shape once its bonded in. The biggest thing for me was it was £3 for 2.4m there maybe better stripping but this was cheap and seems to have met my needs for the past year on my original franken boots. 2: Compared to the inserts on my vans infuse id say its roughly similar. 3: super glue to get it into position so i can clamp it down then a two part epoxy i had to fix a board edge delam. I leave it clamped overnight until the epoxy is cured then just put some gorrilla tape over it so it doesnt damage the tongue of the main boot. 4/5: The donor tongue for this boot are from my orignal franken vans which are the same model and size but for my orignal boots i used a different tongue from my vans low standards which were actually a size larger than i ride now. a larger tongue will work but you will need to cut it down more so it will fit perfectly on top of the main boot tongue. My main reason for switching to the implant tongue was largely it being not as thick even though its a little stiffer so it makes the boot a little less bulky. I forgot to add i use double sided sticky rubber car number/licence plate tape to stick the donor tongue to the boots tongue this pretty secure but it also means if i need to can pull the donor tongue off if say i want to adjust something or just remove it all together without damaging the boot. Edited April 4, 2018 by scottishsurfer 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 On 4/4/2018 at 3:25 AM, Jack Michaud said: I think before I can agree or disagree, I need to set up my softboots the same as my hardboots - with custom footbeds and molded Intuition liners. I just haven't spent enough time in softboots to feel motivated to do all that, but I think I'm there now. Hmm. Yes, I'm putting my custom footbeds and mold a new pair of Rockfoot Palaus in my Driver X. Then I'm going to make my decision also. If all else fails, it was just an expensive experiment, lucky I got most things at some sort of decent discount. SG Soul 164, Driver X, Flow NX2-GT, Gecko Frees. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poloturbo Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Amazing setup Daveo. Best of the best. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 (edited) 1 hour ago, daveo said: new pair of Rockfoot Palaus in my Driver X Any pics of the liners alone and in the Driver X? Curious to see them, and how high they stick above the shell... Edited April 5, 2018 by Mig Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 5, 2018 Report Share Posted April 5, 2018 Once the Rockford arrives I'll post a picture. Before i bought them I measured them up. Should be similar to a hardboot. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted April 6, 2018 Report Share Posted April 6, 2018 Oh these are the liners though https://palau-ski-boot-liners.com/ski-liners/alpine-freeride/alpine-dual-fit-thermo-custom-liners/ 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
daveo Posted July 29, 2018 Report Share Posted July 29, 2018 On 4/6/2018 at 4:00 AM, Mig said: Any pics of the liners alone and in the Driver X? Curious to see them, and how high they stick above the shell... This gives a good look at how high they are in relation to the driver x shell. Those are USD10.5 Driver X with size MP28 Rockfoot Palau liners. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mig Posted July 30, 2018 Report Share Posted July 30, 2018 On 7/29/2018 at 2:23 PM, daveo said: This gives a good look at how high they are in relation to the driver x shell. Those are USD10.5 Driver X with size MP28 Rockfoot Palau liners. Thanks for the pic @daveo!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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