Snowboard (non) development

[Lurch]

@Jack Michaud  proposing an integrated plate mount in another thread got me to thinking about the stagnation of snowboard development. Seems like the last time we saw a quantum leap (?) was the not so recent titanal ‘revolution’ (or its ensuing replacement with carbon fiber when titanal threatened to become unobtanium). I believe I recall  @Beckmann AG  also being a little vociferous* on this theme.

So BOL’ers this is your chance to share that game changing snowboard idea you’ve spent a life time thinking about but never got around to wheeling out of the workshop. To begin this thread I will throw myself at the mercy of the forum with this:

Why not double edges? Think Gillette razor. Could twice the effective edge allow you to run half-length boards with the same mechanical grip?

Anyway, you get the idea, so don the pocket protector and release your slide rule ….

* the use of vociferous is an unashamed ruse to lure the deep thinking alpine thesaurus to the lab to ensure a level of 'quality control' :)

[Carvin' Marvin]

7 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Why not double edges? 

Skis? I have some if you want to give them a whirl.

[Lurch]

Only if you can ride them stacked up, both bindings on top

[Jack M]

Double edges would really only work at one edge angle.

I'd like to try two piece bindings, somewhat like the old Emery Surf.  So just a toe block and a heel block mounted right to the board or plate for less stack height and weight.  These could be custom machined for cant and lift, or shimmed.  There could also be some cushion built in like the Sidewinder.  Of course you'd need a custom board or plate with inserts in the right spots, and you wouldn't be able to change your stance much, so this is a beyond niche idea.  I think this would make suspension plates much nicer to ride.

[Beckmann AG]

8 hours ago, Lurch said:

Why not double edges? Think Gillette razor. Could twice the effective edge allow you to run half-length boards with the same mechanical grip?

To what end? This has already been done (on skis), on at least two occasions, each independent of the other. Like Magne-traction, there's no need, unless rider and/or board are somehow deficient.

37 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said:

Double edges would really only work at one edge angle.

Depends on the configuration.  The 'innovation' mentioned above involved routing a groove into the existing edge, essentially 'splitting' the edge in two for a short section.

It would most certainly provide more grip on ice, but then so would golf spikes. And so too would proper application of the tool itself.

I don't remember the manufacturer, but there was a flippy-dippy board that had a second actual edge immersed in the base, maybe 2-3 inches in from the primary edge.

Not sure on the reasoning, might have been for durability on rails and boxes?

 

39 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said:

I'd like to try two piece bindings, somewhat like the old Emery Surf.  So just a toe block and a heel block mounted right to the board or plate for less stack height and weight.  These could be custom machined for cant and lift, or shimmed.

I think Kildy did this back in the days of the Liquid boards?

 

You want more grip? Bring back camber, and learn how to use it. Many of the issues riders complain about are directly related to how they choose to use their boards. Garbage in, garbage out, and so forth.

[Beckmann AG]

8 hours ago, Lurch said:

to lure the deep-thinking alpine Theseus to the lab

Got a minotaur problem among the beakers and burners?

[Jack M]

Pretty sure that on that 4-edged snowboard you're talking about, the inner edges were straight, for going straight.  The inner edges were on a raised inner base.

[Corey]

I think Donek's new Secret construction is a manufacturing revolution, ending the monopoly that AMAG (I think that's the company) had over titanal supply and jerking the manufacturers around with supply issues.  Similar ride to titanal but with more readily-available materials implemented intelligently.  

The availability of custom boards is pretty revolutionary.  15 years ago, you rode what the big guys made.  Now, you can make a slalom board with a powder nose, a 23m sidecut, flex for your 121 lbs, and inserts for the new tesseract plate for not much more than an off-the-shelf board.  

[Lurch]

5 hours ago, Jack Michaud said:

I'd like to try two piece bindings, somewhat like the old Emery Surf.  So just a toe block and a heel block mounted right to the board or plate for less stack height and weight.  These could be custom machined for cant and lift, or shimmed.

Now we are cooking. Guessing independently edge mounted should help with board flex too.

 

 

 

[alpinegirl]

[noschoolrider]

alpinegirl beat me to it on the Hobie (double edge snowboard) and Jib Tech, I mean Lib Tech is trying to bring it back from the dead:

Not my cup of tea...

Hobie - Double Edge Snowboard
Deuce Snowboards - Dual Edge Snowboard (DES)
Lib Tech DUH XC2 BTX - Double Edge Snowboard

Cross Board (below)

PTC Multi Edge Snowboard / Deuce (below)

Edited January 26, 2018 by noschoolrider

[billyt.]

We must remember that we all came out of the water!  Foil windsurfing, kiteboarding, paddle boarding, surfing, it won't be long.  Powder snowboard with a foil coming to a resort near you.

[Lurch]

Now that Deuce is a neat bit of kit - has anyone here ever tried one?

[noschoolrider]

1 hour ago, Lurch said:

Now that Deuce is a neat bit of kit - has anyone here ever tried one?

Sorry, I forgot to include the names of the boards for images 2 & 3 - I fixed it in my original post.

If you meant the one in the second image that little beauty is the 2014 Cross Board (the third image is a PTC Multi Edge Snowboard / Deuce)
https://www.gizmodo.com.au/2014/07/meet-the-cross-board-one-aussies-decades-long-journey-to-revolutionise-snowboarding/

I have not tried the Cross Board and I think both companies are out of business (their websites are expired), but I tried one like it about 27 years ago.  Even back then, it was not as much fun as a low end Sims or Burton board.

Here is one of the versions by Deuce (it looks like a skidder):

 

Edited January 26, 2018 by noschoolrider

[BlueB]

1 hour ago, billyt. said:

We must remember that we all came out of the water!  Foil windsurfing, kiteboarding, paddle boarding, surfing, it won't be long.  Powder snowboard with a foil coming to a resort near you.

Wahahaha, I can envisage some spectacular crashes on that sort of device in snow. 

[SunSurfer]

A next step in isolation plate design would be to extend plate length, the extreme would be along the full length of the effective edge. The potential gain is more consistent edge angle along the whole edge, while allowing the board to still flex to produce a range of effective SCRs. It would be a full double decker!

[ursle]

With rocker, the effective edge is large, I'm good with a plate that gives me 22++" between my feet, it does nothing in front or behind my feet, my apex is short and I'm cheating my feet over the pivots a bit for a wider stance.

Madd started with a stiffened X that gave a bit of grip for the bindings, virus with its raised binding area on the gladiator was another step, but both were simply risers, these plates that allow board to bend independent of the bindings are great.

The next step, magnets and oil, no hard connection, limits for travel, speed dependent, ultra lite weight, aka George Jetson.

 

[b0ardski]

47 minutes ago, SunSurfer said:

A next step in isolation plate design would be to extend plate length, the extreme would be along the full length of the effective edge. The potential gain is more consistent edge angle along the whole edge, while allowing the board to still flex to produce a range of effective SCRs. It would be a full double decker!

here's a range of sidecut radii for ya

 

Edited January 27, 2018 by b0ardski

[Lurch]

Whoa!  @b0ardski that cable link steers the rear truck from the front binder?

[Jack M]

Funny joke, boardski. 

 

Whoever is behind that Deuce contraption is ignorant of history. Appropriate name though.

[b0ardski]

43 minutes ago, Lurch said:

Whoa!  @b0ardski that cable link steers the rear truck from the front binder?

front is solid, back foot pivots the 2 boards

very weird to ride, can't hold it straight for schite

Edited January 27, 2018 by b0ardski

[Beckmann AG]

1 hour ago, Jack Michaud said:

Whoever is behind that Deuce contraption is ignorant of history. Appropriate name though.

Looks like it would be easier to simply take up snowboarding?

At least the original Swingbo found application for adaptive buckets.

Edited January 27, 2018 by Beckmann AG

[tex1230]

Boardski, did I sell that to you, or did another  hyarc find its way out of the basement? (I sold mine so long ago I forgot)

Edited January 27, 2018 by tex1230

[b0ardski]

yep that was yours, i've seen a couple others but not with the purple hardware.

[scottishsurfer]

On 1/26/2018 at 12:58 AM, Lurch said:

@Jack Michaud  proposing an integrated plate mount in another thread got me to thinking about the stagnation of snowboard development. Seems like the last time we saw a quantum leap (?) was the not so recent titanal ‘revolution’ (or its ensuing replacement with carbon fiber when titanal threatened to become unobtanium). I believe I recall  @Beckmann AG  also being a little vociferous* on this theme.

So BOL’ers this is your chance to share that game changing snowboard idea you’ve spent a life time thinking about but never got around to wheeling out of the workshop. To begin this thread I will throw myself at the mercy of the forum with this:

Why not double edges? Think Gillette razor. Could twice the effective edge allow you to run half-length boards with the same mechanical grip?

Anyway, you get the idea, so don the pocket protector and release your slide rule ….

* the use of vociferous is an unashamed ruse to lure the deep thinking alpine thesaurus to the lab to ensure a level of 'quality control' :)

I've always thought the idea of having an edge on the base of the board and an edge on the side wall like the way lib tech and hobie went about it was kind of the wrong way to go about it unless you ride alot with the board flat.... How about two edges on the sidewall slightly staggered so say you have your traditional 87/88/90 ect edge then further up the side wall you have a second edge that is ludicrously sharp say something like 30 but its set back so it will only kick in when the board is at high angles of angulation. 

how about another method of binding attachment to the board that's not screw inserts or the channel? the main reason i'm suggesting this is i have two boards where the inserts are slowly trying to make a bid for freedom up through the core of the board......