How you guys feeling about new soft boot carving phenomenon?

[Poloturbo]

Talk to Endeavor but they specifically said that they have no titanal laminate because the earlier versions were too stiff.

So carbon/kevlar construction. 

 

[Shred Gruumer]

35 minutes ago, Roy Envy said:

 

Hey folks - FYI Endeavor has a few of the Hammerhead boards

 

Guys  found some stuff on them...   jesus how tempting!!

 

Hanhuro hirighiuch yamanito!

http://shogunshop.com/shop/shopdetail.html?branduid=508420&search=&sort=order

 

[Rob Stevens]

6 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

Your 'lying eyes' may not have noticed the rather significant difference between drifting a moto, and 'stivoting' a raceboard.

 

I called it a “skivot”, thinking skid / pivot. 

You’re saying “stivot”, or steer / pivot? Makes sense, with your additional comment on how it’s not via rotation. 

*not on topic, but interesting to me anyway*.

[lowrider]

Can we put this thread to bed it's making my hard boots soft ?

[Beckmann AG]

1 hour ago, Rob Stevens said:

I called it a “skivot”, thinking skid / pivot. 

You’re saying “stivot”, or steer / pivot? Makes sense, with your additional comment on how it’s not via rotation. 

*not on topic, but interesting to me anyway*.

That's a valid point, but:

Be it skiing, or notcarvingbecauseracer-boarding, the casual observer is going to see the platform moving sideways to the path of travel, and then a *bushel of snow dramatically spattered off the base of the board. So it doesn't really matter what you call it, it's going to look like skidding.

Like it or not, if you say 'steering' to anyone with a learner's or driver's license, or even a lawn tractor, you'll conjure the notion of steering wheels and rotational movements.

For that reason, I avoid using 'steering' in the educational context, unless someone wants to get into the finer points.

It's less impressive to say something like 'productive drifting', or to suggest that one should drift without dissipating the greater quantity of energy previously stored in the board, but both would be more effective in the long term than skivot/stivot.

 

*or the metric equivalent, if you prefer.

 

 

[Roy Envy]

I remember the halcyon days of January when this thread was an enjoyable read about how people felt about softboot carving.

If you ever want to turn someone off too hard boots, just link to this thread 

[Shred Gruumer]

4 hours ago, Roy Envy said:

If you ever want to turn someone off too hard boots, just link to this thread 

Funny as an almost identical thread.. Is going along very well!!...whew.....

[lonbordin]

"I have been on Bomber checking out the scene, it is interesting to say the least. Lots of passion. Funny how people are so hung up on the soft boot issue. It is a lot like surfing in that some see the need for separation." - Cliff Ahumada (Father of Pure Carving)

...here we are eight years later. Maybe someday it won't matter what we ride.

 

 

[Buell]

1 hour ago, lonbordin said:

"I have been on Bomber checking out the scene, it is interesting to say the least. Lots of passion. Funny how people are so hung up on the soft boot issue. It is a lot like surfing in that some see the need for separation." - Cliff Ahumada (Father of Pure Carving)

...here we are eight years later. Maybe someday it won't matter what we ride.

 

 

I don't understand how this applies to this thread. BOL has come a long way toward accepting softboots as a valid carving tool. There is typical BOL BS (from multiple directions) here and there in this thread, but I don't see softboot bashing. Most of the posters in this thread also carve softboots.

 

On 3/2/2018 at 5:28 AM, Roy Envy said:

I remember the halcyon days of January when this thread was an enjoyable read about how people felt about softboot carving.

If you ever want to turn someone off too hard boots, just link to this thread 

When I first saw hardbooting, nothing would have turned me off, especially anything posted in this thread. I love carving softies too.

Edited March 3, 2018 by Buell

[st_lupo]

On 3/2/2018 at 4:42 AM, Beckmann AG said:

That's a valid point, but:

Be it skiing, or notcarvingbecauseracer-boarding, the casual observer is going to see the platform moving sideways to the path of travel, and then a *bushel of snow dramatically spattered off the base of the board. So it doesn't really matter what you call it, it's going to look like skidding.

Like it or not, if you say 'steering' to anyone with a learner's or driver's license, or even a lawn tractor, you'll conjure the notion of steering wheels and rotational movements.

For that reason, I avoid using 'steering' in the educational context, unless someone wants to get into the finer points.

It's less impressive to say something like 'productive drifting', or to suggest that one should drift without dissipating the greater quantity of energy previously stored in the board, but both would be more effective in the long term than skivot/stivot.

 

*or the metric equivalent, if you prefer.**

 

 

**That would be the milliton, centiton, deciton, ton, and shiton of snow.

Edited March 4, 2018 by st_lupo

[crackaddict]

Shall we take this in a new direction then? 

Fast-forward to a time when everybody and their dog is carving snowboards.  Surely the demand for better turns will produce some killer, high performance, all-mountain, lightweight step-in systems which minimize drag so we can ride narrow boards again.  But what about my ego?  Being the only hardbooter here pretty much makes me the best carver on the mountain by default, and I've gained a reputation as such.  How will it be when the next generation grows up carving?  Will I just be another old man taking up too much space on the hill?  I like that my equipment and my style are unique and impressive; I get a lot of hoots and high fives, but that could end when everybody is doing it. 

Sure, someone will call me out for being all about ego, and sure I may be slightly more likely to skid a bad section if no one is watching, but I'm only human and I like the ego boost.  While I would like to think I would choose an empty slope over an audience every time, I have been known to lay a track down under the Stoke chair from time to time (read: every morning first thing when there's corduroy, again and again until it's shot).  I have to imagine there are quite a few others on this site who are the best carvers at their local hills, also by default.  Don't you all enjoy the respect and recognition that comes with that position?  Thing is, I've seen this happen in climbing.  Access to the sport at a younger age combined with better training techniques and more available facilities and mentors have skyrocketed climbing levels beyond what could have been imagined twenty years ago.  As the sport grew in popularity, more people were trying it and the naturally gifted discovered their mutant finger strength and kept at it.  Whereas I used to get noticed for my ability, now teenagers warm up on stuff I'll never climb, and I'm just that old man waiting his turn to 'try'.  Ego killer.

And what about the corduroy?  Firm and man-made snow can last all day, but we sometimes get corduroy so soft I can put a three inch trench through it with my hand.  It doesn't last long, but it'll last 'till ten sometimes if no one trenches it up.  Most skiers and riders will just skid along the top and enjoy the smoothness, but as soon as I lay a track down, those same people are now turning harder to avoid that track, digging their edges in and starting to form moguls.  So how will it be when there are dozens of carvers competing for the corduroy every morning?  Will soft, fresh groom become as rare and sought after as soft, fresh powder?  Will I have to get in line early even when it doesn't snow?

On the upside, in this imaginary future when everybody is carving, my friends want to ride the same runs as I do, and at the same pace too.  Folks are more aware of arcing carvers and don't try to pass them either.  

So ya, it's great that more people are carving soft boots, but if it doesn't catch on, that's okay with me too.

[st_lupo]

On 3/1/2018 at 12:57 AM, Shred Gruumer said:

This is hillarious!  

 

For the ADD afflicted:

i = 0

while i < 10000000:

    Dude on the right: Duuude! Camber Camber Camber, Whoaaah Camber!

    Dude on the left: Hahaha Yes, camber!

    Dude on the right: Camber Camber Camber, holy FUCK Camber!

    Ed McMahon (I mean dude on the left):  Hahaha Yes, camber!

    i += 1

 

[Beckmann AG]

 

Those guys with their camber 'discovery' probably feel a little like Vasco da Gama.

"Dude, no joke; this is better than cinnamon!" 

Next you know, edgy youth will take The Camber Challenge®, and land upside down in the trees, unable to breathe.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Beckmann AG

[1xsculler]

The more of this topic I read, and I do enjoy it, the more interest I develop in the softboot concept of carving as an addition to hardboot carving but since my UPZs are totally comfortable I think I would just change to a wider, shorter board with a tighter SCR and reduce my angles down to something like 45/30 to give it a try.

[crackaddict]

@1xsculler: I don't know if you can 'try' softboot carving in your UPZs, no matter how wide your board is...  

[1xsculler]

2 hours ago, crackaddict said:

@1xsculler: I don't know if you can 'try' softboot carving in your UPZs, no matter how wide your board is...  

Try the concept...I don't want to go through the hassle or cost of buying another pair of boots. 

[west carven]

howdy 1xsculler

totally missing the point... again...

[1xsculler]

You or me?

[1xsculler]

So, what's the difference between riding a 26mm wide, 160ish, free ride type board at lower, more softboot angles, i.e. 45/ 25, or something similar, whether in soft or hardboots?

[Emdee406]

16 minutes ago, 1xsculler said:

So, what's the difference between riding a 26mm wide, 160ish, free ride type board at lower, more softboot angles, i.e. 45/ 25, or something similar, whether in soft or hardboots?

Personally I find they flex completely differently to each other, and have very different levels of precision, and therefore, feel. 

And yes, I ride both...a lot. 

[softbootsurfer]

On 2/28/2018 at 9:26 AM, Neil Gendzwill said:

Yeah, those guys don't know how to carve at all, they really suck.

 

Neil...my post started with the words "With All due Respect to the Racers". of course,I don't believe they can't Carve, nor that they or anyone else Sucks! OK

When I watch WC Races...I see a different type or Style of Carving than this video, that is the difference I was trying to point out...maybe no one else here sees a difference and thats OK...I have posted this a number of times already here, I think this is about as good an example as anyone needs...Sigi is not just and incredible Racer, but a great Mentor for the young and a wonderful Freerider with a Powerful relaxed Style...Again!! I do Respect all the Racers and their efforts OK!! 

 

[t-nut]

My real problem with "softboot carving" is that the wide boards required for those with larger feet do not perform well in a freeride setting. There are tight or critical spots where very fast edge transitions are necessary and a big, bloated wide board will be too sluggish here. Where softboots excel is all terrain riding. But if you have big feet, you need a separate rig just to softboot carve, which to me, defeats the utilitarian purpose of softbooting in the first place. If you're going out on a board that doesn't perform well off piste, why bother going in softboots at all when you could carve in hardboots? Moreover, the angles you'll use for softboot carving aren't optimal for the quick turns needed in freeride/variable conditions either.

Softboot carving, for me, is too much compromise. You need a wide board which doesn't work in tight trees (where you find most of the good powder), and doesn't carve as well as hardboot equipment.  You take softboots, strip them of their freeride prowess and apply them to a riding style for which they are sub-optimal. I'd rather have a hardboot rig for pure carving, and powder/freeride boards for freeriding. After carving my softboots for many years, I often felt like they left me wanting. Having switched to alpine equipment this year, I have seen my carving dreams come true!

The unfortunate reality is that each setup will excel at one thing and be atrocious at the other.

What it really comes down to is, I wish I had small feet so I could carve my narrow freeride boards. I have not yet found a good compromise in a freeride board that is quick-edging, but still wide enough to be carved well without boot-out. Is that board out there? I'd be really happy to find it!

 

Edited March 5, 2018 by t-nut

[lonbordin]

16 hours ago, t-nut said:

My real problem with "softboot carving" is that the wide boards required for those with larger feet do not perform well in a freeride setting

This is complete bullsh*t. Ryan Knapton's 31.5 cm wide board doesn't perform well in a freeride setting?!? My wide boards don't perform well? Bah-lone-y.

Where are all these trolls coming from? There seems to be a pattern here...

Edited March 5, 2018 by lonbordin

[Jack M]

3 hours ago, t-nut said:

My real problem with "softboot carving" is that the wide boards required for those with larger feet do not perform well in a freeride setting.

 

You don't understand the concept of scale.

[daveo]

4 hours ago, t-nut said:

The unfortunate reality is that each setup will excel at one thing and be atrocious at the other.

Umm.. Err..

I had a response for this then realised I was wasting my time.. 

Edited March 5, 2018 by daveo