How you guys feeling about new soft boot carving phenomenon?

[Poloturbo]

Yes most versatile Blade and best value.

Almost race board and the best on ice by far is the JJA. It' incredibly fast and the small SCR makes it playful but it's still 166cm and double 0.4 titanal so heavy and super stiff. Tried it in small powder and it just doesn't work. 

The SG is a good surprise. The least stiff of the bunch. Short and playful. Fat for 29.0 mondo  a dream to laidout carves because of the 27.5" width.

I always bring at least two and change during the day. 

I love them all for there different attributes.

 

 

[BobD]

Long thread, so I might have missed someone posting this before. Found this Nidecker video on snowboard stances. The video clearly advises forward angles for carving and freeride. No, it's not an ancient video (just last year).

 

 

[sic t 2]

U got to like the headline pic on the Whiteface website today ??

[John E]

Thanks for the Nidecker video. It doesn't say what the "natural" stance should be. I measured my floor-to-knee and it is about 52cm. This is about what I have my boards set at. So I'm guessing that one's floor-to-knee distance should be the "natural" stance. 

Also, I notice that the angles they show would result in a lot of heel drag. 

[John E]

So I have been trying to hardboot cave for a long time. In hero conditions I can do pretty well. When snow gets hard and/or the slope gets steep, it all falls apart. 

I went up yesterday and tried softboot carving. I set up a very old Ride Mecca 159 board. I set my angles as low as overhang would permit. The conditions were pretty good (but sub-hero). 

I had a GREAT time. I felt like I could get a lot more edge pressure (toe & heel) than I could in hard boots. I realize that I will likely never carve as well as those great riders on hard boots but if I'm having a great time, what else matters?

I was curious about the specs of this board. It is wider (26 cm waist) and shorter SCR (7.5 M) than any hardboot board I have. 

If I was to have a new softboot carving board made (Donek?) should I use these specs as the basis for the new board? 

[JRAZZ]

Interestingly enough I found that softboot riding has improved my hardboot riding as well.

 

2 hours ago, John E said:

If I was to have a new softboot carving board made (Donek?) should I use these specs as the basis for the new board? 

It's really a very subjective question.  What's right for you?  If you're considering a custom board you should really call up Sean and talk to him and see what he recommends. Maybe take out a demo board that he has and see what you like. 

[1xsculler]

On 2/23/2018 at 6:50 AM, John E said:

So I have been trying to hardboot cave for a long time. In hero conditions I can do pretty well. When snow gets hard and/or the slope gets steep, it all falls apart. 

I went up yesterday and tried softboot carving. I set up a very old Ride Mecca 159 board. I set my angles as low as overhang would permit. The conditions were pretty good (but sub-hero). 

I had a GREAT time. I felt like I could get a lot more edge pressure (toe & heel) than I could in hard boots. I realize that I will likely never carve as well as those great riders on hard boots but if I'm having a great time, what else matters?

I was curious about the specs of this board. It is wider (26 cm waist) and shorter SCR (7.5 M) than any hardboot board I have. 

If I was to have a new softboot carving board made (Donek?) should I use these specs as the basis for the new board? 

Very, very interesting...both this post and the following one ..."softboot carving has made me a much better hard boot carver".

[Rob Stevens]

^ It should. 

With the lack of support, you need to rely on strength and technique. 

Then, go back to your plastic boots with the above improved and you should ride better. 

Pretty straightforward. 

[Buell]

8 hours ago, Rob Stevens said:

^ It should. 

With the lack of support, you need to rely on strength and technique. 

Then, go back to your plastic boots with the above improved and you should ride better. 

Pretty straightforward. 

I find the lack of support requires you to develop subtlety. There is just a lack of solid connection that exists with hardboots and you have to learn to be comfortable with the board, boots, and bindings moving around a bit underneath you.

[BlueB]

On 24/02/2018 at 9:08 AM, Rob Stevens said:

^ It should. 

With the lack of support, you need to rely on strength and technique. 

Then, go back to your plastic boots with the above improved and you should ride better. 

Pretty straightforward. 

Yes, and it works the other way round, too. At least from what I remember fom long ago, when I still rode softies... 

H/boots teach the balance, precise touch, but also to charge hard. 

Basically, variety makes us better in all our endeavors... 

[daveo]

4 hours ago, BlueB said:

Yes, and it works the other way round, too. At least from what I remember fom long ago, when I still rode softies... 

H/boots teach the balance, precise touch, but also to charge hard. 

Basically, variety makes us better in all our endeavors... 

I like this way of thinking. That's why I'm going to get back into softboot carving next season.

[scottishsurfer]

when running forward angles would i be wise to flip my rear foot toe strap so the ratchet is on the inside and furthers away from the edge of the board/snow?

[Mig]

One thing is for sure, minds sure have become more open about softboots on the bomber forums. Not so long ago, the mere mention of them in a title had the discussion moved to the off topic forum, or something like that... LOL

[Rob Stevens]

4 hours ago, scottishsurfer said:

when running forward angles would i be wise to flip my rear foot toe strap so the ratchet is on the inside and furthers away from the edge of the board/snow?

I wouldn’t worry about it unless it flips open. It’s aimed in the right direction as stock, so don’t change it unless it’s an issue. 

[John E]

One thing I discovered is that trying carving on my softboot setup I've gone to a much shorter sidecut radius and wider waist. My hardboot boards are in the neighborhood of 12 M SCR with a waist of about 20 cm. My softboot board is about 7.5 M SCR with a waist of about 26 cm. This allowed me to ride smaller angles. Whatever the change was, I found it very easy to carve (under those conditions). All my attempts to carve in hardboots required more effort (with poorer results).  

[Corey]

31 minutes ago, Mig said:

One thing is for sure, minds sure have become more open about softboots on the bomber forums. Not so long ago, the mere mention of them in a title had the discussion moved to the off topic forum, or something like that... LOL

Meh.  Carving is carving.  I'm not boot-ist.  ;)

1 minute ago, John E said:

One thing I discovered is that trying carving on my softboot setup I've gone to a much shorter sidecut radius and wider waist. My hardboot boards are in the neighborhood of 12 M SCR with a waist of about 20 cm. My softboot board is about 7.5 M SCR with a waist of about 26 cm. This allowed me to ride smaller angles. Whatever the change was, I found it very easy to carve (under those conditions). All my attempts to carve in hardboots required more effort (with poorer results).  

Maybe try a 10m board for hardboots?  Like a slalom board or shorter freeride.  Some people love small radii, some people love larger.  

[Mig]

24 minutes ago, Corey said:

Meh.  Carving is carving.  I'm not boot-ist.  ;)  

Neither am I, that's for sure. But I have seen many who are on here over the years... ;)

The opposite is also true, of course. Many softbooters hating on hardboots. Pretty funny to see some of them now posting on FB all the articles on Ledeska the "snowboarder" beating the skiers at their own game, when not so long ago the same guys were calling hardbooters skiers... LOL

[Rob Stevens]

50 minutes ago, Mig said:

 

The opposite is also true, of course. Many softbooters hating on hardboots. Pretty funny to see some of them now posting on FB all the articles on Ledeska the "snowboarder" beating the skiers at their own game, when not so long ago the same guys were calling hardbooters skiers... LOL

This! 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Rob Stevens

[lowrider]

Something about the title of this thread that got the hairs on my neck tingling. I'll just add this soft boot thing is in a way the handing over of the torch it's just that these youngsters just can't quite handle the big stick yet !

[scottishsurfer]

Lack of availability to try said big stick is an issue for some of us ?

[trailertrash]

22 hours ago, Mig said:

One thing is for sure, minds sure have become more open about softboots on the bomber forums. Not so long ago, the mere mention of them in a title had the discussion moved to the off topic forum, or something like that... LOL

Eh, that's not exactly the whole story, way back when there were a lot of SB riders claiming SB's were just as good as HB's for carving. They weren't then, they aren't now. Remember kooks like Photodad?

I ride a Kessler The Ride, Now O Drive bindings, and Solomon Malamute boots. It can not perform at the same level as my HB's. When speed, angle or snow firmness increase you know it.

[MK@whiteface]

I'd like to talk to a SB carver that claims they are just as good as a hardbooter.  I ride both, and it depends on what I'm doing. 

 

Pros and Cons to each set-up.

 

Of course, when I first came into the Forum, all the whiteface guys would get yelled at for what kind of boots we wore (ski boots).

[Jack M]

53 minutes ago, MK@whiteface said:

I'd like to talk to a SB carver that claims they are just as good as a hardbooter.  I ride both, and it depends on what I'm doing.

On low-angle stuff like Buttermilk, they are just as good.  But like TT said, as slope, speed, and surface firmness increase, they can't compete.  Literally, which is why nobody races SL or GS in softboots at higher levels.  Youth racing, sure.

[Mig]

1 hour ago, trailertrash said:

Eh, that's not exactly the whole story, way back when there were a lot of SB riders claiming SB's were just as good as HB's for carving. They weren't then, they aren't now. Remember kooks like Photodad?

I ride a Kessler The Ride, Now O Drive bindings, and Solomon Malamute boots. It can not perform at the same level as my HB's. When speed, angle or snow firmness increase you know it.

Where the hell did I claim they were better? And I stick to my statement. There are more positive posts and discussions about sofboots on here in the last few months than there used to be, and they are not moved to a generic sub-forum anymore.

[MK@whiteface]

21 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said:

On low-angle stuff like Buttermilk, they are just as good.  But like TT said, as slope, speed, and surface firmness increase, they can't compete.  Literally, which is why nobody races SL or GS in softboots at higher levels.  Youth racing, sure.

Jack, I was talking overall, I agree there are different conditions, where everyone is just as good (To the best of their ability)