Which Intuition liners have you used in UPZ RC-10's?

[jburk]

There's been a few threads in the last year or two relating to this, some of these have been "liner A vs liner B" type of threads.  Rather than discussing the pros and cons of the various liners (which might not be that useful to any one person since everyone's foot is different), I'd like to take more of a poll among those that have used an Intuition liner in a UPZ boot.  I'm assuming that anyone using a UPZ boot has a foot at least a little bit similar to mine (narrow heels and ankles, wider forefoot).

I'd appreciate if you'd limit the responses to liners that went into a UPZ boot; telling me what liners work (or didn't) in a Deelux or Raichle won't help me choose a liner for a UPZ RC-10.

• which liner did you end up choosing?
• were there any that you tried and decided against, and is so, what was it that you didn't like?
• were you looking to change the stiffness of the boot with the stock liner, or just get a better fit?
• do you prefer more of a race fit, or something a bit more relaxed?
• did you also use an aftermarket footbed, or did the liner obviate the need for one?

For myself, since I'm pretty happy with the current stiffness of the RC-10, seem to have decent heel hold, but find that it feels like the whole liner squirms around in the shell, I think I'd be better off with either the Alpine, ProWrap, Luxury, or Dreamliner.  If anyone's tried any one of those, I'd be interested in their impressions.  For what it's worth, the "squirming" seems to get worse with temperature, not too bad when it's cold, and on warm days it's OK early in the day, but gets progressively worse as the day warms up.  For the first few days I thought it was just the thermo liner adjusting to my foot, but it never got any better, even after 20 days.  I measured my foot to 26.3 and wear an MP26, and seem to have about 1-1/2 finger shell fit (def can't get 2 fingers behind the heel).

 

[Corey]

I'm running Intuition Alpine in my RC-10s. They don't have a plastic tongue so they soften the boot somewhat. I run Surefoot insoles on top of the thick Intuition soles, but I do have low-volume feet. I did hold 85-lbs of barbell while molding each liner (one at a time) to compress the sole a bit. 

I'm closer to a comfort fit than a race fit. I used to take great pains (literally) to lock my foot in with the smallest possible boots. Then I loosened the buckles and realized it didn't matter as I was mostly riding with the soles of my feet anyway. I then bought size 28 boots for my 28 feet - less toe bang than I had in the 27s I ran for a few years. 

Any moldable liner will fit in any boot as the outside conforms to the shell while the inside conforms to your foot. 

[jburk]

Thanks for that, exactly the feedback I'm looking for.

2 minutes ago, corey_dyck said:

Then I loosened the buckles and realized it didn't matter as I was mostly riding with the soles of my feet anyway

Had a ski instructor who used to make us do a couple of (slow) runs with the buckles just tight enough to hold the clasps down, essentially unbuckled.  It really drove the point home that you could get most of the way there with just the bottom of your feet, and sort of taught how to turn with minimal effort instead of muscling things around.  "You can't turn the ski!!  Only the ski can turn itself!"  Would have been zen, except for the mid-Euro accent...

[bigwavedave]

Intuition Alpine with custom orthotics, not a race fit, as I like to ride all day.

This is the UPZ thread from last year, which reminds me that I also got those new replacement buckles and cut my tongue to make getting in and out easier and eliminate the buckle smashing.

Edited November 1, 2017 by bigwavedave

[*Ace*]

Dalbello Gold, which I think is made by Intuition.

Used them for over 150 days. Great liners.  

Looking for something new soon though.

Edited November 1, 2017 by *Ace*

[DonPablo]

I have Powerwraps in my RC10s.

After a run or two I get pain in the arch of my foot and I need to rest my feet. I think what happens is the molded liner sinks into the groves on the inside of the UPZs and my foot isn't in the widest part of the boot anymore. So when you mold liners in UPZs I would by mindful that you are sinking into those grooves. I was planning to put some Bontex shims in and remold the liners but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

It would be nice if I didn't get the arch pain. I find the RC10s to be laterally soft and I run the stiffest tongue which helps.

[Pat Donnelly]

http://forums.bomberonline.com/topic/43304-deeluxepalau-liners/?tab=comments#comment-440285

Been using Palau Overlap Hard liners for the past few years in UPZ 10 along with custom foot beds.  

Have a new pair of UPZ 10's and will use (new) Palau "Dual Fit" liners.

https://palau-ski-boot-liners.com/ski-liners/alpine-snowboard-en/alpine-dual-fit-thermo-custom-liners/?lang=en

Edited November 1, 2017 by Pat Donnelly

[Corey]

39 minutes ago, DonPablo said:

So when you mold liners in UPZs I would by mindful that you are sinking into those grooves. I was planning to put some Bontex shims in and remold the liners but I haven't gotten around to it yet.

I mold my liners with nothing there, then if they pack out I put Krazy Karpet material over those grooves. It holds up well and doesn't slide. 

[Surf Quebec]

I have the Luxury liner medium volume, with custom footbeds, mondo 27 in a RC-10 26.5.

I love the lace that I thightened to the max to keep my heel down.

 

I have small feets, so I need a liner that will fill  the room between the shell and my foot mainly at the heel.

Same problem with ice hockey skates , very hard to find a skate for me (thanks Graf skates)

I use the sock method to mold the liner,  it was difficult to mold the liner on the top of the feet, I'm at the last pin on the buckle.

I used Palau Overlap before but they are thinner than the Intuition one.

 

 

[queequeg]

I used the Dalbello gold liner for years, now I am in the Intuition PowerWrap+, which I find to be pretty similar to the Dalbello gold, maybe a bit higher volume tho. I used to downsize to MP26, and now I am in MP28. I definitely prefer the tighter fit of downsizing while I am actually carving, but went with a roomier fit because I can still get about 85% of the performance with a more comfortable fit, without the associated pain of downsized fit.

[Jack M]

Intuition Power Wrap.  They seem to be the same as the original Raichle Thermoflex, of which I have had many successful pairs, so I just went with them.  Very satisfied, but I don't know any better.  I had the same squirm experience with the stock liners as you.  My feet measure about 28.4 and I am in size 28 boots.  I wouldn't want them any smaller.  No squirm with the Power Wraps, and they stiffened the boot slightly which was welcome, but I still added the stiffer gray tongues.  I'm seeking more stiffness this year, so I got a pair of the dark gray RCR tongues and the RCR cuffs.  Going to try the tongues first.  I actually hyperflexed my rear ankle last season, which had never happened before.  I still feel it if I make certain motions.

[AcousticBoarder]

I was dealing with liners for a majority of last season haha.  Finally got them dialed in towards the end. 

I have narrow heels which is why I went with the UPZ, the deeluxe that I had just did not have heel hold. Season before last I went to a great boot fitter local to So-Cal and recommended here,  Ski Net Sports and discussed it, as I was still getting some in my UPZs and Claude recommended instaprint custom footbeds. They made a world of difference, but I still had some ways to go. 

I have high arches and thus high instep over the top of my foot - doesn't take much pressure for my feet to hurt and go numb and cold. I got the thin tongues for the Flo liners, and they helped, I could stay out another hour or two, but still wasn't the best. Called up a ski shop on the hill after some research to put in a order for Intuition Pro Wraps. They said it was a special order so I couldn't return them, but I decided to do them because it was a wrap that I could really flatten the top of, and the sole was thin. Well there was some miss communication on the phone and they ordered the Pro Tours I think. Somewhat similar but with more ankle flex and in a tongue format. Needless to say, not what I was looking for. It may have been worse overall than the Flo for my feet, even after heating the tongue and putting it in a vice to thin it.  

I called up Ski Net Sports again like I should have in the first place, ordered the Pro Wraps and my feet couldn't be happier now! 

Edited November 1, 2017 by AcousticBoarder

[bigwavedave]

Liner update: 2015-16 (light blue) UPZ rc10; size 28;  1½ finger space

─When my stock (Flow) liners became painful I found a pair of Intuition Alpine Wraps on sale at a local ski shop. I think they were 27m, but they fit the shells nicely and my toes barely touched the front and the boot fitter thought they'd be okay as they pulled away when I flexed. I molded them myself creating extra space in the toe area. After riding for one day in comfort, the next time I put my feet in the boots, my toes were painfully cramped, as if the foam had expanded in the toe area. I re-molded the toe area, but then I had the same experience this season─after one day in comfort, the toe area seemed to shrink causing great pain. In desperation (at the ski hill on day 2) I took a knife to them and made a horizontal slit in the toe area, which gave instant relief.  This whole issue may be due to fact that I went with a size 27 liner rather than a 28, but the toe design in the wrap is less roomy.

Also, with the wrap liner design I find I need to tighten the top 2 buckles an extra notch or I start to develop shin bang. No hint of shin bang since I installed DGSS.

The Alpine Wrap seems to have a similar or possibly slightly softer flex than the stock Flow liners.They do have great heel hold.

─I decided to order a pair of size 28,  medium volume, Intuition Luxury liners, thinking that a lace-up liner with a tongue might prevent shin-bang and my toes might be happier with the roomier box toe design. I haven't ridden with them yet, but they have a bit more volume than the Alpines, the uppers are thicker and stiffer and combined with the tongue, take up more space, requiring lengthening of the buckle adjustment. The flex feels a bit stiffer and they are noticeably taller (~½ inch) and with the uppers being thicker and stiffer all around, it feels like they provide more lateral support as well.

I used the hot rice method to mold them to my feet and additionally heated the shells to mold the liners to the shells. I'm also using custom molded orthotics (footbeds).

Update: Found the Alpine liners more comfortable than the Luxury, especially in the calf area, and easier to get into. I had to remove the Luxury liner from the shell to get my foot in and out─even with the new UPZ swing-away tongue!  And the Alpines seem more responsive─like I have a more direct connection to the board.

 

 

Edited March 6, 2018 by bigwavedave
update

[jim_s]

I'm running Intuition Luxury liners in a medium volume in my size 26 RC-10's. I'm a lightweight, so didn't want to stiffen the boots up further (such as with a wrap liner), but the stock liners were seriously uncomfortable, and left me with cold feet on even mild days. I tried both the low and medium volume liners. The low volume liners were just too loose for my liking, and I couldn't find a foot bed that would take up the needed space w/o causing pain under and above my foot. On the advice of Intuition and a bootfitter, I tried going with out a foot bed in the medium volume liners (adding a foot bed was causing them to be almost impossible to buckle w/o serious discomfort), and just relying on the molding, but had bad foot cramps w/o an insole. I ultimately went with Superfeet Carbon liners as they're very thin, but provide me the needed support under my arch.

I'd rate the current fit as more toward a 'race' fit (I unclasp the lower 3 buckles between runs, to avoid achy feet, and they're *perfect* for hard SL-style carving on the way down, all snugged up!) I've been out on a number of single-digit-degree days, and while my feet eventually tend to get cold on the lift (toward the end of the day), I blame that more on my wimpy constitution than the liners. They're nice and comfy warm on all but the coldest days. Interestingly, the Intuition folks recommended the size 27 liner for my size 26 RC-10 shells, and that was definitely a good call - it fits tightly in the shell, its really a perfect fit on my foot. (The first few times out were uncomfortable, for sure - I was initially worried that I'd made a bad decision - but between 2-3 heat moldings, including after the addition of the Superfeet Carbon insoles, and just general wearing-in, I'm very satisfied with the fit, the warmth and the flex/performance.) I've got skinny feet, and often have problems with heel lift in boots, but this combination of liner and shell keeps my feet in place very effectively - zero heel lift!!

[jburk]

For the record, here's what I ended up with as well:

I considered the Power Wrap, but since I have really narrow heels but also need an extra wide toe box due to some previous foot injuries (yes, my feet are shaped like pizza slices), I went with the Pro Tongue  liner.   The helpful folks at Intuition said it's about the same stiffness as the Power Wrap but wider in the forefoot, and has laces you can tighten for as much heel hold as you need.

I had them molded at The Mountain Shop in Portland, OR, along with some custom instaprint-like footbeds that they made up and posted for me.  I can't say enough good things about the people there, if you're looking for a bootfitter in the Portland area I highly recommend these guys.  I went back for a second molding of the liner for some minor tweaks, at no extra charge despite my offering to pay for the service.  They also did a minor boot punch for me, that last change resolved any remaining issues.

Boots are a 2017 RC10, mp26.  The Pro Tongue liner was a 26 medium volume, and fit true to size in the 26 boot.  My largest foot is 26.2cm so length isn't an issue, but if you have a high-volume foot you might consider the low volume liner version; I'm somewhere between medium- and high-volume, and the second molding involved really cranking down the buckles to compress the liner foam - before that there weren't any hot spots, but the entire liner was just that little bit too tight all over, wasn't apparent until after a few hours on the hill. 

 

[Hans]

No Intuition here. Boot Doc comfortable foam. And for a surfy style I like my boots as soft as possible. DGSS spring system and the softest red tongues.

[Ondrej]

Hopefully, I can pick up on this thread again. Exactly same problem, got in my UPZ's last weekend after 1,5 seasons off and after first run thought there would be no second run. Feet were absolutely killing me and I was swearing all the way up the hill with all buckles open. Feet sit tight, but freeze easily. After few runs it got better and at the end of the riding, I barely knew about it, but don't need to experience it next time. Enough of this stock Flo liner.

I have boot shell 5,5-6,5 US, with exactly 1 (rather skinny) finger space behind the heel. Pretty tight from the times I cared about best performance and not so much about comfort. My feet are rather low volume. Intuition says that this for this little room they advise low volume liners, but there aren't many of them - for example the Luxury Low Volume. Those who use the alpine or powerwrap liner, do you think it would be too thick?

They also say if you have boot 1/2 size (this Luxury LV), round up size of the liner.... Should I then get size 7 or will it be too big?

thanks in advance

Edited March 6, 2018 by Ondrej

[ThePeonsChamp]

I asked the intuition people through their site and they told me to go with the Pro tongue. This is my first heat molded liner so I don't have much to go on as far as how it feels comparably but it's a tight fit and feels fine. It's a bit of a challenge to get into the boots though.

[jim_s]

1 hour ago, Ondrej said:

Hopefully, I can pick up on this thread again. Exactly same problem, got in my UPZ's last weekend after 1,5 seasons off and after first run thought there would be no second run. Feet were absolutely killing me and I was swearing all the way up the hill with all buckles open. Feet sit tight, but freeze easily. After few runs it got better and at the end of the riding, I barely knew about it, but don't need to experience it next time. Enough of this stock Flo liner.

Yeah, the Flo liners kinda suck - I had exactly the same experience. I was seriously questioning my decision to get the UPZ boots, just a few runs into my first day on them. The great news is, the shells are awesome - its just a matter of finding the right liners, and the Intuitions have worked out really well for me. Still plenty snug, no adverse effects on boot flex, and my feet are both *warm* and *comfortable" now. (I do still loosen the middle 2 buckles on each boot on the ride up the hill...)

I would STRONGLY advise you to cut right to the chase, and contact the fine folks at Intuition. They #1 know their liners really well :-), and #2 are very well versed in how their liners fit the UPZ shells. They are also incredibly patient (I tend to ask a LOT of questions), and very accommodating. They actually ended up sending me out a second, slightly-larger set of liners, so that I could actually compare the feel between the two sizes, to arrive at my final decision. (I was genuinely blown away when they offered to do that!)

I ended up with the Luxury liners in a medium volume, and am very, very happy with them.

**Seriously, just call them.**

 

[daveo]

Palau Alpine Dual Fit Overlap Hard Rockfoot. 

[lonbordin]

Flo liners are ridiculous compared to the UPZ boot. Made for a long skinny foot while the shells are made for a wide foot.

Egyptian v. European or somesuch. Whatever.

I've used Intuition Plugs in the pair I had. Worked well for a low volume situation.

 

 

[daveo]

35 minutes ago, lonbordin said:

Flo liners are ridiculous compared to the UPZ boot. Made for a long skinny foot while the shells are made for a wide foot.

Egyptian v. European or somesuch. Whatever.

I've used Intuition Plugs in the pair I had. Worked well for a low volume situation.

 

 

Yeah. That. I have long skinny feet and they didn't even work for me =/

[Québec man]

Intuition alpine serie...  and i love it.

[Ondrej]

Just now, Québec man said:

Intuition alpine serie...  and i love it.

And how much room in the shell do you have without the liner? I'm just curious since I don't have very much at all.

[jburk]

1 hour ago, ThePeonsChamp said:

I asked the intuition people through their site and they told me to go with the Pro tongue. This is my first heat molded liner so I don't have much to go on as far as how it feels comparably but it's a tight fit and feels fine. It's a bit of a challenge to get into the boots though.

I have the Pro Tongue 26 medium volume liner in a mp26 RC-10, and find that when it comes time to put them on or take them off, if I loosen the laces as much as possible and then pull the tongue up and forward they turn into what may be the easiest boots on and off.  

Also, once the boots are open like this, I pull the boot on using the loops on the cuff and tongue, rather than stuffing my foot into the boot.  Easy as pie, and I have a really wide forefoot.