Animosity on the slopes towards carvers?

[1xsculler]

I was doing my best to carve a few trenches the other low use weekday and "WHAM" out of nowhere a 20something shredder slammed into me hard from behind cleanly knocking me down and about ten feet from impact. My first response was, "Are you alright?"  He shredded away with out comment while I checked myself for injuries. Fortunately, I was ok.

 

After thinking about it I wondered if carvers occasionally get treated like bicyclists and motorcyclists sometimes do on our roads, i.e. " I wish you weren't here and therefore I will give you a little scare."  I hope this is just my imagination.

Edited April 6, 2016 by 1xsculler

[trailertrash]

I have found that people who get hit consistently are generally oblivious to their surroundings. Getting hit once every 5 years is an accident. More than that and you are the problem.

[Neil Gendzwill]

Most people aren't prepared for the amount of real estate we chew up in a turn and how fast we come across the fall line.  Be sure to check uphill, especially coming around heelside.

 

Having said that, the guy is a dick for not saying anything.

[JRAZZ]

Animosity?  Up until now the people I ran across were more positive than anything else.  (look for the "heard it on the lift line" threads)

 

I was talking to my friends at work (avid skiers).  They say that the biggest problem on the slopes are those straightlining bombers that are locked in a death wedge and go a zillion miles an hour without control.  

 

That being said, you can be right or you can be smart.  Look up slope, ride when it's free of skiers and know when to leave or just put on your soft setup and dive into the trees.  The downhill skier has the right of way but physics doesn't seem to care.

[Keenan]

The downhill skier always has the right of way, no matter how erratic and spastic they are.  I would have chased him down and bitch slapped him.  This has happened to me one more than one occasion, if they pretend nothing happened they will just do it again, maybe to a kid.  I have gone so far as to chase them into the lift line, pop my board off and tell the lift op to call patrol.  I then informed them that they would not be allowed on the chair until patrol arrived.  I have also gone so far as to ride up behind them and knock them down.  

[Corey]

After thinking about it I wondered if carvers occasionally get treated like bicyclists and motorcyclists sometimes do on our roads, i.e. " I wish you weren't here and therefore I will give you a little scare." I hope this is just my imagination.

The self-righteous people can buy lift tickets too. Fortunately, there seems to be fewer of them than the rest of us.

I had a fairly new ski patroller inform me that I cut her off once - luckily the skiers' code was conveniently posted near us, I pointed to it. The experienced patroller she was with explained things further.

The average person can't comprehend someone accelerating at 1 G across the ski hill. We need to watch out for them and give them room to be oblivious without killing us.

[MikeC]

The downhill skier always has the right of way, no matter how erratic and spastic they are.  

I will generally agree with this should an accident take place however I do think it's important to acknowledge and remember that our style of riding uses a metric ton of hill space.  We must hold a balance between ensuring we get our fix while also making sure we don't overly disrupt or ruin the hill experience for other trail users.

 

I try to look uphill at every transition.  Hard to do depending on your riding style but it beats getting hit by some city boy and having him cry to patrol about the "assault" you just committed on him.

[softbootsurfer]

Bravo Keenan, and right on !!! the downhill skier has right of way because you do not have eyes in the back of your head...this is simple and people are run into or over by people passing from above and guessing where you are going to be when they are parallel  and if they guess wrong, then you get smacked and they huff and puff that you are the problem and the blame...I may have to have surgery on my neck from some ass hol,e running into me last year, the fall knocked me out and when i awoke and said what are you doing, he said You Snowboarders have no right to go back and forth across the hill...the thing is, he was oblivious and felt I was the problem, I still see him skiing around unaware of anyone else...waiting for the next accident...someone else to blame for his straighline get off my mountain approach...there is no excuse for running into people down the hill from you...none, not one, if you can have ski classes going side to side, then you need to be prepared for anything, anywhere, anytime

Edited April 7, 2016 by softbootsailer

[BlueB]

I have found that people who get hit consistently are generally oblivious to their surroundings. Getting hit once every 5 years is an accident. More than that and you are the problem.

I don't know... Some people, me included, are just magnets.

Beginning of the season: I came down to the lift, completely slowly, gently sliding into my heel stop just before the rails, a kid come down full speed through entire go-slow area, hits me into both heels, feet up, head down, concussion :(

Just other day: I'm approaching a long box in the park, after I stopped and called "drop-in!", a kid comes screaming around some trees, from the side, missing me by 4".

3 weeks ago: A douche tried to pass between me and bamboo fence, through my blind side. I caught a glimpse just before he hit me, so I managed to catch him and give us somewhat soft landing...

So that's 3 times in a season - completely innocent. And sh!t like that happens to me every season...

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

That incident wasn't 'animosity', so much as it was cluelessness, apathy, and a disregard of the Responsibility Code.  And, it happens all too often.  The Ski Areas have, within their education programs, a limited means of changing this so that it happens less. When I was an Instructor, I carried clipping pliers with me and I darned well clipped some tickets in my day (especially at Okemo and Bromley, where the traffic flow gets very congested, but people are still moving too fast.

Like a car accident, it's wise to get names and a witness, if possible. If not, and you're able, don't let the perp get too far before alerting Ski Patrol or a Liftie. Mountain employees often have the power to restrict an offender. 

 

Meanwhile, make sure you are wary of who's nearby. Use you heelsides turns to plan your routes, use your toesides to scan the oncoming traffic uphill of you. 

[johnasmo]

I do a lot of both hard and soft booting.  I get hit more often when carving.  Ergo, carving is part of the problem.  We don't like to say it that way, but we all know that carving puts us at more risk of collision.

 

Of all my collisions, only one seemed to result from a skier showing animosity.  It happened about 8 years ago.  I was carving down a bowl at Big Mountain, when I heard a skier slide out behind me.  I looked back at him and went on with my business as he collected himself.  Further down the run, the same guy took me out from behind and was super angry at me for being in his way.  I think he felt I cut him off from straight-lining the bowl, so in his road rage he was going to strafe me at speed, but he still didn't have the skill to time it right and instead took us both for a tumble and yard-saled himself.  Idiot.

 

Coincidentally, just a week and half ago I got taken out by a snowboarder.  Last thing I wanted to happen while my shoulder recovers from surgery; it happened within a week of returning to hard boots.  I entered a run from a cat track, checked uphill, no one, checked downhill, no one, got no more than two turns in before this guy takes me out like a bullet train.  Slams me hard in the chest as I come off toe side and am about to transition to heel.  He had to have come off the same cat track at mach speed and just turned down the run on top of me.  At least 40 yards wide and only the two of us on it.  Idiot.  But at least he was very apologetic.  He hit me very hard, and I think he was genuinely scared that he might have seriously injured someone.  Wish he would have thought about that beforehand.  My good shoulder became my bad shoulder for the next week, and my sternum wasn't too happy...  Don't like chest pains at my age; never know what to think... 

 

Anyway, seems like I average getting taken out from behind every 200 or so ski days.  Close calls maybe every 100.  When soft booting though, not enough data points to even make an average.  Ergo, carving is part of the problem.  It's not at fault, the idiots hitting us are, but they wouldn't be hitting us if we weren't carving, by and large.

[michael.a]

Wow Keenan, you are my hero!

We need less passivity in dealing with those who have seriously wronged us. I used to wave it off, but the next time someone runs into me and hurts or damages something, Im suing. Its costing me way too much time and money to have to fix other people's mistakes.

Just last week a friend got taken out by a skier, knocked unconcious, broken wrist, badly injured all around. Besides ski patrol, the on-hill police were called who faulted the skier. I dont know if any criminal charges are going to filed, but its already looking messy.

[SunSurfer]

Just to lighten this up a little. An Aspen local gives his view of the effect of carvers on a ski slope during SES 2012. Neither of us knew the camera was running.

 

[Allee]

Most people aren't prepared for the amount of real estate we chew up in a turn and how fast we come across the fall line.  Be sure to check uphill, especially coming around heelside.

 

Having said that, the guy is a dick for not saying anything.

All of this.

 

You learn, when you're a carver and the slopes are busy, to have your head on a swivel at all times. You learn to go when the slope is empty, and pull off and wait when you can see or hear people behind you. Learning how to safely play in traffic is part of the skill set.

 

There are always going to be entitled straightliners who think that they own the mountain, and everyone else needs to get the hell out of their way. While technically being in the right is a good thing, technically still being in one piece at the end of the day is better ... discretion being the better part of valor, and all that.

 

[crucible]

I agree that most skiers and snowboarders have never seen alpine carving, so they aren't aware of the speed, acceleration or shape of our turns. It makes it difficult for them to anticipate our fall line, which when combined with fatigue and a potentially lower level of board control, almost makes for a perfect storm for potential collison.

I tend to see more collisions on the slopes after lunch, so fatigue might definitely be a factor. Sometimes at Whistler it gets so hairy that I purposefully stay off the groomed stuff and play in the trees after lunch to avoid the dramas...

[Neil Gendzwill]

And just to play devil's advocate, we are annoying as hell to the rest of the riding/skiing population.  Yeah, yeah we have the right of way and all but... one of us sucks up an entire run that could be used by many people simultaneously who are turning in a more conventional manner.  So it behooves us both from a safety and politeness point of view to ensure as much as possible that the slopes are clear both ahead and behind, and wait if they are not.

[najserrot]

My non carving buddies have pointed out many times that "it" looks very unusual from behind. Espescially when traversing the hill before the edge change... which is where i have taken some hits 100% of the time...

[John E]

When I'm carving I constantly scan upslope to look for others overtaking me. I also wear a spine protector. When I'm softbooting I usually just scan the slope at the beginning of the run & I skip the spine protector. People rarely overtake me (I'm not taking up most of the slope). 

 

This won't prevent a collision but hopefully reduce the likelihood & severity. I've been skiing & snowboarding for almost 50 years & I don't ever recall colliding with anyone.

 

I've asked Ski Patrols at my local mountain & at Aspen if we carvers cause a problem for them. Both said "No".  

[Eric Brammer aka PSR]

My non carving buddies have pointed out many times that "it" looks very unusual from behind. Espescially when traversing the hill before the edge change... which is where i have taken some hits 100% of the time...

On this note, one thing to keep in mind is that a Skier will 'reference' your shoulders while you are on your heelside, and often do so at a glance.  With that, they may assume your path by way of a false cue.

That torso isn't heading down the fall-line, it's coming across it! 

 

And, then there are those who text while skiing, so...

[nigelc]

I appreciate that carving is different. I also appreciate that there will be accidents. It's the bit where after hitting someone from behind the instigator claims it's not their fault that makes the red mist come....

[bumpyride]

The only time I ever worry about getting hit, is when I'm on a groomed run.  Off piste, it's not a problem.  In the bumps, it's not a problem.

 

Caveat emptor when you're on the groomers.

[JRAZZ]

Skiers should know the code.  They should know that the downhill skier has the right of way.  Straightligning downhill is douchebaggery.

 

Kinda like how drivers should know the law.  They should know when to give right of way and that driving slow in the left lane is...

 

 

All right.  All correct. So?

Most people are OK, some make mistakes, some are stupid, and some are just A-holes.

 

So?

All of this is immaterial when you're pulling a ski pole out of your back.  

 

My beef with focusing on the RULES or RIGHT OF WAY is that it doesn't help you prevent an accident.   Yes, other SHOULD know the code but are you going to trust others to follow it?  Be safe proactively.  Make sure you are safe and leave litigation and revenge for the courts.

[gdboytyler]

I have had some close calls while carving, but the only time I got hit, I was not actively carving.

I slowed down as I went over a blind roller so that I wouldn't hit anybody. Then a teen snowboarder aired off the roller and slammed into me. I was wearing body armor and a helmet. The teen slammed his head into my helmet and had to take the tobbagon ride to the bottom. The teen got a concussion and bloody mouth. I had a light bruise on my bicep, which I didn't notice until later.

[nigelc]

Let's be clear that this is not just about carving. I have witnessed two incidents in the last couple of seasons where a group of us have been stopped at the side of the trail where clearly visible from above,and one of the group has been taken out by an out of control straight liner. It's about knowing the rules and riding or skiing in control

[kieran]

for whatever reason, this season has been the season of 'lets follow that guy and get ahead of him', and when skiers do that, invariably they're trying to turn inside my line. it's a combination of reactive choice and turn shape difference

2 such unwise persons have so far had surprise shunts followed by a one-ski wobble while they go over the nose of my board as i exit a heelside, countless others have found themselves heading towards the rocks that i'm turning away from ..