My day at Keystone with Mountain Watch and Patrol

Neil Gendzwill

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

One thought that comes to mind is that, although Fin is obviously completely in control and giving a good berth to everyone, he is going considerably faster than the snowplowing beginners on the slope. If you have no ability to assess people's skills on the fly, you might think he could have trouble stopping in time based on seeing less skilled riders.

That's really stretching it, though.

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Dan

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

FFS, this is like a school crossing guard pulling over Henry Ford for speeding...only to have footage come to light that reveals that Ford wasn't speeding at all, and it was the blown Model T he was driving that ticked off the crossing guard.

Hope that Keystone does something to make amends, otherwise they're off my list for good.

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slopestar

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

Get it together out there. I will certainly be changing my vacation plans for this spring. I had already booked flights and lodging for my family of four to ride at Keystone. My family has been friends with the Cornelson’s and I have been skiing and riding at Keystone Mtn. Resorts since I was 9 years old/31 years ago as guests of Paul Cornelson/ former President of the company that owned your resorts, at least back in the eighties and nineties. The actions you have chosen to take against a fellow Alpine Snowboarding Enthusiast are unwarranted and extreme in my opinion and shared by many. Documented video evidence shows your people were out of line. I will be taking my business elsewhere.

<o:p> </o:p>

Lance Felice / Project Manager / Commercial

Audio Images | 1582 Parkway Loop, Suite F | Tustin, CA 92780

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Dave ESPI

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

<META content=Word.Document name=ProgId><META content="Microsoft Word 12" name=Generator><META content="Microsoft Word 12" name=Originator><LINK href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Clancef.AI%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_filelist.xml" rel=File-List><LINK href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Clancef.AI%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_themedata.thmx" rel=themeData><LINK href="file:///C:%5CUsers%5Clancef.AI%5CAppData%5CLocal%5CTemp%5Cmsohtmlclip1%5C01%5Cclip_colorschememapping.xml" rel=colorSchemeMapping><STYLE>  </STYLE> sent to csimson:AR15firin
Get it together out there. ..{ }.... I will be taking my business elsewhere.

<O:p> </O:p>

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Snowman

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

This is my response the the Patrol manager at Keystone. Please, if you choose to email them, keep it clean.

Dear Sirs

I have been a season pass holder for some time with Vail Resorts and over the years I have had the opportunity to observe your rmountain and its sefety related employees working. Something that has become extremely clear to me is that your enforcement of the rules is more often than not, discrimanatory and very over zealous. Your recent speed control efforts have been quite the topic of dicussion on a web site that I frequent and there is video of this arqument, but it seems that VR (Keystone Patrol) is remaining steadfast on this over zealous and over forceful enforcement of speed infractions when a person is clearly completely in control, staying far to the side of the trail, and above all bothering no one except for a couple of yellow coats who I am guessing might still have a problem with snowboarders after all these years! How about approaching safety from a standpoint of the skier/snowboarder responsibility code and enforcing the rules as written in that code. Lets start with skiing/boarding in control, downhill person has right of way its your responsibility to avoid them, stop on the side of the trail where visible from above ect ect. Its these bacic and important rules that seem to be seldom enforced and clearly the most important. Copper use to be the leader of lousey on mountain rules enforcement but they have made a hugh effort to educate the patrol/Mtn host staff to be observant and polite, not mountain gastapo!

Although I am a pass holder, I bring my kids who are not pass holders, and many other friends and family who spend large amounts of money to enjoy all of the facilities the VR has to offer. Keeping in mind that coming to your mountains cost a trememdous amount of money, it would be appreciated if your professional staff could act more as a pleasant host instead of a power tripping jerks and treat people as if they have spent a pile of money. I would assume that repeat business is of the utmost importance to you and if you want my repeat business, I would suggest a refesher couse on customer relations and courtsey. I have been around the snow sports industry for many years in many capacities, and while I know that the season can get long, customers can be unreasonable, conditions can be lousey, YOU are in the hospitality business; soo, try to be more hospitable! Here is a link to some post responses that you may or may not be interested in.

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=28054

Thanks for your time

Mark Kress

970-509-9222

Grand Lake, Colorado

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CARV-NY

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

Waiting on part 2

even though I'm on the east coast I'm still going to write a letter because this behavior of the safety staff CAN NOT spread to other resorts. It's time that the older cranky generation respect snowboarding as a sport and that the people who snowboard aren't all trouble making disrespectful people. I work at a ski resort myself and the way that the mountain in question is run is atrocious! luckily The resorts around me including the one that I'm an instructor at are very snowboard friendly. In my time i've seen more skiers cause crashes, skiing out of control etc. I can't count the number of times i've been run over by an out of control/ignorant skier when stopped or riding at a slower speed and in plain view. I was planning a trip out west soon and this mountain was on the list but from what i hear lot's of mountains out there have the same safety Nazi's and i've decided to stay here on the ice coast and enjoy free riding without being criminalized. This treatment os snowboarders must be stopped!!!

END RANT.

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biggerwrangler

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

RE: *** 9news.com Newstip ***

I’ll certainly pass on your concerns as a possible story.

Thanks!

Randy

:boxing_sm

Beating up the small ALL AMERICAN! local business man SHAME ON YOU KEYSTONE.

:argue: Fin.. I know you know people, I know those people know people. Lot of people, Famous people, rich people, I suspect that if you choose to pursue this with the intensity of your ride, and the strenghth of your products, God help em, is there a part 2, 3, 4?

FIN FOR PRESIDENT!

Glad I didn't get a 5 mountain pass.....

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bumpyride

Posted December 31, 2009

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Posted December 31, 2009

I don't know how any snowboarder could be considered a safe rider. He only has one board and no skewers to poke out of control skiers before they get too close to prevent them from running into him.

I have a tendency to play Devil's Advocate, but sadly there is no play in this video.

Sic em Tiger.

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jp1

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

Sorry, for some reason this really bothers me :mad: .

I guess it's a combination of meeting Fin & the Bomber Crew (all great :biggthump people) and seeing the video, of which I see absolutely nothing wrong :confused:.

The thought crossed my mind after watching the video several times that 'maybe' it was a 'Planned Attack' on the Alpine Snowboard family?

All of the things these people do (Bomber) for the Alpine Community, what better person (Representative of the Alpine Industry) could you single out to get the 'Resorts Message Across'?

'Alpine Snowboarders are NOT welcome @ Keystone!' Is that the message they want to convey ?

While others, like Alta & Mad River take the heat from the 'snowboard family' for being off limits, all Keystone has to do is pick the right person, get the whole family up in arms, and maybe they will go away. Thus leaving the 'snow-plowers', 'sitters' & 'sliders' to have the trails to themselves and not have to deal with those 'pesky people constantly turning'.

I thought the Ski Industry (specially out West) was starting to understand the concept of snowsports is making controlled turns, but I guess not.

I'm so glad I spent my time (and $$) at Loveland with the LCI when I was there :biggthump ..

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Snowman

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

Keep in mind that Keystone is still a great place to ride. I don't think it was by any means a planned attack on "alpine", mayby snowboarders in general but not a specific attack on alpine. Also, the level of burnout that most resort mtn employees is staggering, and with the resorts all short staffing seasonal burnout sets in much quicker. Then, add in the geriatriac factor afflicting most mtn host staff you have a recipe for hair trigger tempers. I am not condoning Mr. mtn host course of action nor the mtn managers response to Fin on this issure, but it is time for the mtn's professional staff to be more observant and active with on slope safety starting with the snow riders 10 commandments. These rules are clearly written, lawyer approved and never enforced! So, be easy with the boycott and send along some effective, well written and direct responses to the appropriate people and lets see what happens. Just sayin, that all.

Think Snow!

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Ace

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

They never said jack to me, and I was going the same speed as Fin.

The Ski Patrol jerky boy was for alpine snowboarding, just on certain trails.

The Mountain Safety goon was one salty dog, let me tell you.

He had his panties in a bunch the moment he stepped foot on the mountain.

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davekempmeister

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

Keystone blows. I have been there on three occasions and each time was treated to some form of disappointment by way of ineptitude or hostility from staff. My boycott has been in effect for about 5 years already. Hope all works to your favor, Fin.

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Cuban Carving Gooding

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

I have never been I will never go. They lost the chance I will never go.

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Michelle

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

Wait until you guys hear part 2 of the story. I'm sure Fin will post when he gets back on Tues.

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Bobby Buggs

Posted January 1, 2010

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Posted January 1, 2010

I was talking about it to another user of this forum yesterday, he said Fin should, in a light fashion of course let the Mtn mgrs how many ticket buyers he reaches on a daily basis and ask them if they would like him to request that this community refrain from going there.

I said if they treat him like a tool in the meeting I would be sure to mention it.

I watched the vid, its not like he was weaving in and out of people, like I do:o, he was doing the safe thing along the left side of the trail.

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Alpinbogen

Posted January 2, 2010

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Posted January 2, 2010

How in God's green earth could that be considered unsafe? Sure you were going faster than most....most were sitting on their duffs! That was gentle cruising along an open section of the run in complete control, and certainly not speeding, let alone balls to the walls trench digging. In no way were you buzzing or weaving in and out of people. You even began checking your speed well before the cluster at the slow sign. There was no harping on white jacket skiier guy or the guy filming behind you, though. What gives??? Were you supposed be side slipping the entire run or flailing your arms like a newbe? Roscoe was way out of line. After presenting that video, the manager should be appologizing profusely and calling Roscoe in for a chat. :confused: :angryfire

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DiveBomber

Posted January 2, 2010

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Posted January 2, 2010

maybe someone should post this over on TGR

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biggerwrangler

Posted January 2, 2010

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Posted January 2, 2010

The suspense is killing me!

+2 not much for drama, but dam if we can't stop checking on this!

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carvin29

Posted January 2, 2010

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Posted January 2, 2010

Eager to hear part 2. In all honesty, I think you're dealing with someone who hates snowboarders. I remember when I was 15 and night riding- it was rainy out and my ticket disintegrated- this mean old patroller would not listen to any sort of reasonable argument- he was a real jerk about the whole thing and booted me. It was obvious he was old school and didn't like my "kind". I'm also sort of aghast at the soft booter's comments (I am a softbooter) and how stupid he was.

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ptran11

Posted January 2, 2010

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Posted January 2, 2010

I'm also sort of aghast at the soft booter's comments (I am a softbooter) and how stupid he was.

I'm not against all soft booters but there are lot of them out there to make a reputation for the community. Every day I'll see a person on softies spray an innocent person with snow with a hard turn and just ride off. Happens to me on occasion even when I'm off to the side and away from the main traffic. Don't get me wrong, my wife and a couple good friends ride softies.

Nonetheless I can't wait to hear part 2 of the story. I have a feeling the resort will go to one extreme or the other on whether to exonerate Fin or not. Just a guess.

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tex1230

Posted January 2, 2010

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Posted January 2, 2010

maybe someone should post this over on TGR

Nobody on TGR would give a sh!t, honestly. They generally hate Keystone already.

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Cindy Kleh

Posted January 3, 2010

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Posted January 3, 2010

I have to say, I don't see you riding dangerously, Fin, but don't blame it on Keystone. I've had hassles at other mountains like Copper. You're right about the mall cop thing. These yahoos get a yellow coat and a nametag and they go overboard trying to prove their authority. I'm kind of surprised that the ski patroller took Len's side. Usually they are the voice of reason. I've never had hassles with SP (except when I poached a closed run ... I deserved it.)

That's why I love the Basin, ski patrol but no slope pigs. Maybe because Keystone is so frequently icy that it's a real issue there. I've held a grudge against Keystone since the 80s-90s when they decided that they didn't want our slimey snowboard kind (until they realized they were losing alot of money to other resorts, then they tried to convince us how cool they were). I lived within walking distance to the gondola for 11 years before I could access Keystone without skis and I rarely visited the place once they changed their minds.

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ak_rider

Posted January 3, 2010

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Posted January 3, 2010

I know who mr. oldy oldman that harassed you is, and that dude is just a crusty old toolbag who hates snowboarders, no matter what. i'm surprised he didn't tell you that you darn skiboarders just go out and ruin the snow, what with those trenches that you leave all over the place.

but i say fight this with as much time and energy as you want to put into it. as someone said earlier, it's yopu against 3 mtn employees and the mtn will side with its employees; as a former VR and Keystone employee, I can tell you, that VR will ABSOLUTELY not side with their employees if a paying customer is threatening to take their business away. and since you are said paying customer, just play the i paid money to be on the mountain card. trust me,, they will fold. people have gotten refunds on lift tickets(you know, those things that are supposed non-rfundable, no matter what) because, "the snow is too deep". this is fact, i saw the paperwork filed to process this refund.

their is really no reasoning with them as far as you weren't riding too fast, or anything like that, because even though you weren't, they don't care, and that mtn is run by a bunch elitist skiers who think they're awesome and know everything. the only thing VR understands is $$$$, and if you start threatening to take your money elsewhere, i'm pretty sure they will fold. and if not, and they end up taking your pass away, just go and buy day lift tickets, and when you're done for the day go back to a ticket window, and complain until you get a refund. this is best done via cash.

i worked on mountainside, but my husband worked in acct. trust me, if the person you are dealing with isn't doing what you want, keep asking to speak to a manager, and take it all the way to broomfield if you have to, although you wont. i'm guessing it won't take you too long to find a disgruntled employee who is fed-up with being treated worse than dirt and will do whatever you want.

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RDY_2_Carve

Posted January 3, 2010

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Posted January 3, 2010

Wait until you guys hear part 2 of the story. I'm sure Fin will post when he gets back on Tues.

Michelle you are such a big TEASE!!

:AR15firin

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jtslalom

Posted January 3, 2010

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Posted January 3, 2010

This incident reminds me of the days back in the late 80's when ski patrollers seemed to hate snowboarders. Seem as though with some that hatred never left them.

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My day at Keystone with Mountain Watch and Patrol

Was Fin Speeding and Being a Saftey Hazzard in the Clip? 161 members have voted

1. Was Fin Speeding and Being a Saftey Hazzard in the Clip?

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Was Fin Speeding and Being a Saftey Hazzard in the Clip?
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