Do these comments piss you off too?

[astrokel]

My Giro probably weighs about the same as my knit cap with fleece lining, really. These days that weight arguement against helmets just does'nt fly, you can definitely find a helmet that weighs just about nothing. The bulk issue is another thing but If you can find the right fit it shouldn't be a problem. I think if you're carving and doing speeds that carving demands its kind of irresponsible not to wear a helmet despite the perceived limitations. Now whether it's a full face helmet or half helmet that's a debateable issue.

:)

[Gecko]

I believe there are some hidden benefits to helmets:

When other skiers/riders see a helmet, they recognize instantly that you are not out for a sunday drive-- and I believe they tend to stay away. The helmet combined with a long, stiff, skinny, board that says "all-business" provides a solid cue to other skiers that a wide berth is the wise way to go.

You may be correct with that I have noticed that many people give me a wide berth when they see me array'd as listed above.

[skipuppy]

One other thing I have found insanely helpful: WEARING A BRIGHT ORANGE JACKET!!!

1. My ski club in Santa Rosa loved it the first season I had it because I was always the first to the bottom and in the crowds I was easy to spot.

2. People SEE YOU! Everyone will likely see you. As mentioned above- you stick out of a crowd. If on top of sticking out of a crowd you are going fast they know you know your stuff and give you room instead of trying to make the turn before you pass them.

3. People SEE YOU! If you are lying in the woods after hitting a tree you might be a bit easier to spot. You should never ever go into the trees by yourself in the first place, but being bright makes it easier for the ski patrol to find you. :o

[FTA2R]

I would disagree with a previous post that this is a "dangerous, dangerous" sport. This is not a sport of physical contact (shouldn't be, anyway!). In general, I think it's as dangerous as you make it. Certainly, riding a motorcycle is MUCH more dangerous (hence why I chose not to ride even though I have a license to and I would probably love it. having several speeding violations doesn't help either though )

A helmet still does not gurantee anything, I believe a rider died @ Loon a few years ago (and it was his first day ever wearing a lid).

I am pleasantly surprised at what seems to be an increasing # of riders wearing them every year. Possibly one good thing to come from the integration of high fashion / style into snow sports.

I have been involved in at least 3 collisions, none serious. One was years ago with another boarder, before I rode plates. I am goofy, he was regular I beleive our backs facing each other, going towards opposite ends, we collided when our paths intersected. No concussion but I was definitley shaken up. I did not wear a helmet in college when it happened.

2nd time was my fault I took out a little kid right in front of one of his parents. of course i felt like a total jackass and apologized sincerely and made sure everything was OK before continuing. I'm sure she didnt' think too highly of me but I was very apologetic and sincere so I think the parent just realized it was an accident pure and simple.

3rd time wasn't too big of a deal. it was at carving camp in June with a much older guy. can't remember all teh details, wasn't very high impact, but was probably my fault. hey, accidents happen, people make mistakes.

to leave the scene enters another level entirely, one that may warrant "opening a can" IMO.

The helmets really are pretty comfortable too. I wear an underarour Skully cap underneath so it doesn't itch my head and I rigged up headphones. Some will argue that's not at all smart, which I admit it's not the smartest thing, but it greatly enhances the riding experience for me. Driving with loud music has helped me to use my eyes more for being alert. you get used to it. My Boeri is at least years old and I use it for longboarding too if I'm going fast.

[queequeg]

I see your point, but I respectfully disagree. Dangerous is a relative term. Snowboarding, may be less-dangerous than many things, but that does not make it safe.

Consider this: any time you fall from a height greater than your own, you can break your neck. Take that thought, and think about it in context with the speeds we all ride and the many variables involved on the mountain.

Riding a motorcycle may (or may not be) more dangerous than snowboarding (depending upon how and where you ride). But if you are riding plates and a stiff board fast enough to carve, the sport you are participating in is dangerous. As many of us have experienced, being on the mountain at *any* speed is dangerous thanks to the many skiers (and snowboarders alike) who cannot distinguish between risking their own lives from risking the lives of others who would prefer to remain safe. Unless you are the only person on the hill, it is not only as dangerous as you make it -- but as dangerous as others make it for you.

I would disagree with a previous post that this is a "dangerous, dangerous" sport. This is not a sport of physical contact (shouldn't be, anyway!). In general, I think it's as dangerous as you make it. Certainly, riding a motorcycle is MUCH more dangerous (hence why I chose not to ride even though I have a license to and I would probably love it. having several speeding violations doesn't help either though )

[alpinegirl]

then there are magical blue jackets (instructor jackets of course) that make you absolutely invisible. i have been hit more while wearing this particular coat than when wearing any other. this dull, greyish blue coat and black pants/gloves... at dusk no less. and that's when all the kids who have been shut up in classrooms all day start rolling in. fun!

there is also hill layout to consider. our terrain park empties out into beginner trails.

i like helmets. i figure that my head is travelling as fast as the rest of me. if i catch an edge (i'm human, there, i said it) while riding my edge acts as a pivot point and there is abolutely nothing that is slowing down the speed at which my head is travelling as it is redirected towards the "snow." sometimes "things" break my focus, like having people hit or clip me. or i have a "special moment" with a group of students where i make the mistake of saying something like, "don't worry, this is safe."

i realize that it is not an absolute truth/answer, but i figure that until people accept that they are responsible for themselves, then i might as well wear one.

[FTA2R]

OK, I edit my statement. I would agree that, as the back of lift tickets say, "skiing and snowboarding is inherently dangerous." I'm sure the lawyers had something to do with that statement, but I just don't consider snowboarding under "normal circumstances" to be a "dangerous, dangerous sport." as you said. You have a greater chance of getting into a car accident (and probably a greater chance of being injured from a car accident)

As a general statement, I respectfully (but totally) disagree that riding a bike may be more dangerous- it is. How many snowboarders die a year? A few. How many bikers die / are seriously injured each summer? A lot more than a few. The impacts, forces, and speeds, involved in bike crashes are generally much greater than those of riding. Again, I say this under "normal" circumstances. There are, of course, exceptions.

There are many days here I would consider driving far more dangerous than riding.

[Jutta]

I feel an urge to contribute my $0.02:

Helmet: I grew up sking in Europe where NOBODY wore helmets back in the day, but I bought my first one the afternoon of my first foray into snowboarding: caught my edge - bam - and didn't want to repeat the ensuing slight concussion. Now you won't find me (or the rest of the family) without one on the slopes: safer, warmer, and you don't get snow in your ears when you fall.

Out-of-control-boarders: I honestly never had a problem with boarders - well, except for those annoying groups of teenagers sitting around and cloggin runs - until my kids were old enough to hit the slopes. All of a sudden there were incompetent people on boards everywhere.

I think it has to do with the fact that most of the "problem" boarders are intermediate teenagers who think they're the $#@%. When I'm on a run by myself, I'm way faster than those guys, so they don't create a problem. But they do go faster than my little ones and unfortunately tend to neither have the skill to maneuver around a beginner at their top speed (and as a rule my kids don't take up the whole run-width; we shot for about 5m/15') nor to show the decency to slow down if a crowded run forces them to pass others at close quarters. I've only had my 4 year old on the slopes 3 times this year and she already "met" 4 boarders (teenagers, all of them), one of which managed to cross her 80cm skis between tips and bindings, only to speed away to re-join his buddies. His attitude changed a bit when my hubby caught up with him, though... (thanks for letting me bitch)

Conclusion: beginner/slow skiers are often the victim of beginner/intermediate boarders, and the fact that the typical "perpetrator" is a teenage male who has to prove himself to his friends doesn't make for polite apologies, either. I guess the teenagers were always the "bad" ones on the hill, but since they are mostly on boards, the "annoying teenager" has morphed into the "annoying boarder" for many.

Trend: yeah, right... that's what they said about mountain bikes, too.

Snow: honestly, I think it's almost a non-issue. Is someone suggesting outlawing a skier's snowplow next? And I've seen plenty of skiers skid down a difficult run sideways, too...

[FTA2R]

being a teenager not so long ago (I'm 27), that's a huge part of it! The attitude, the testosterone, etc. etc. Respect your elders doesn't apply to slopes, lol! But we must make them respect the Old Skool! (us) - or take them to skool! hehe...

ps "respect my author-o-tai !" - SP

[carve4life]

you guys ever have someone pull the bar down right in the begining before you even get going on the lift and had one of those foot rest things pin you down? i had a guy once force that foot bar down so hard, it felt like my foot was going to seperate from my leg. (btw, i love those foot rest things just not when my foot is UNDER it)

[Guest jager]

When you get lip from one of those little pickle sniffers, ask them which orifice they want your boot in! LOL! Just kidding, everybody!

I've had a snowboarder and a skier go over my 171 Prime between nose and my front binding. Thank god I wasn't (a)going fast (watching my big girl run gates! :o ) or (b)turning. It did drive the nose down and the board was completely flexed. They went over so fast, I didn't even have time to stop. They crashed and turned and I'm standing there like 'What the ---- was that?" And they left. No apologies, just left. It's frustrating but what can you do?

I understand completely about becoming more aware of these things as one has children though. And parents should, in my opinion. You're bigger, let the person hit you, not the kid. I do! Just go limp and it's not so bad. LOL! I guess I noticed when I was pregnant with my first. I rode until six months. Couldn't lay them down because of the belly and had to slightly alter my balance. Then I cracked my tailbone falling on the stairs at home and couldn't ride the rest of the season. I agree that this is a dangerous sport but, for the most part, if you know what you're doing and have the confidence in your ability and knowing how your board handles, it's everyone else you have to worry about.

And to any beginners, if you want to wait for a trail to clear out, I have a trick. Get off the trail near a tree or bush you can hold on to. Wait by your chosen tree for the trail to clear, then hop back onto the trail, open up and let it go until you get near a busy area. Takes some of the frustration out of riding at a busy hill. Oh, and lean forward. It's more fun! LOL! :rolleyes:

[Guest jager]

carve4life and other guys as well,

or when one of those bar thingies crush the sensitive areas. happens to hubby whenever I'm not with him, poor guy!

lift designers seem to be man haters. I recognize this and feel for you all! lol!

[NateW]

Snowboarder do ruin the pow more than skiers, (scrape the snow off). An inexperienced snowboarder can go to expert ungroomed runs and simply sideslip down. A skier with the same amount of days under their belt would probably be walking down that same ungroomed run.

Phil is quite right about this. I used to think it was just crap from cranky skiers, but no... I can't argue that point as of a couple years ago. At the area I usually ride, there's a short section of moderately steep moderately moguled stuff right in the middle of the terrain park run. Since they put the park over there, at any given time there would be a couple of boarders sideslipping down that section. It's kinda funny sometimes - watching some of those kids zip down the hill sideways, you'd think they were on short fat monoskis.

Not coincidentally, rocks and weeds and crap were coming through in that area well before anywhere else.

[Dan]

Seriously, what the hell is wrong with people that 1) drop the bar without any warning 2) on your head 3) and then don't apologize? The total lack of basic courtesy is actually kind of fascinating: what could these people possibly be thinking?

Occasionally I say, "you know, it would be nice if you would let the other people on the chair know when you're dropping the bar." Almost every time this gets a look of surprise. What's going on with that?

I got a good one the other day at Meadows. I'd brought two boards up to the mountain, and was waiting to put one in the board check. The ski corral is divided into two sections, one for boards, one for skis, so I was standing by the gate to the ski area when the bubblegum-chewing teenage girl working the ski check said to me with a nice teenage mix of boredom and contempt "skis are over there."

I really didn't hear her, so I said "what?"

"Skis are over there." she said, louder, this time indicating the direction by jerking her head.

I looked at her...really not much you can say, is there? Finally I just said "this...this is not a ski."

"Skis are over there"...heh, in retrospect, that's pretty funny.

[tufty]

you guys ever have someone pull the bar down right in the begining before you even get going on the lift and had one of those foot rest things pin you down? i had a guy once force that foot bar down so hard, it felt like my foot was going to seperate from my leg. (btw, i love those foot rest things just not when my foot is UNDER it)

Heh. The best one I've had was a complete beginner skier who arrived just as I was going for lunch, so I offered to show him how the lift works, how to do it safely, etc. My colleague slows down the lift, we slide to the end of the runway, all well and good, chair arrives, he's turned all sideways, but manages to dig in the end of a ski and ejects the pair of us into the pit. Nobody's hurt, I'm checking he's OK and he says to me...

"And that's the _safe_ way to get on?"

I nearly cried with laughter.

I've since seen the same thing happen to a chair containing 2 patrollers and a chairlift driver. Oh, for a camera on that one.

Simon

[Gleb]

i just found it much more comforting to wear a helmet. Its warm and i barely know i have it on. It was really the only way i was able to take my skiing to a different level. It also defintly helped out on my first day of riding because i defintly hit my head on one fall. Ive never had the enjoyment of getting hit in the head with the bar. If i'm alone or with friends on the lift, i rarely put the bar down. Never really found it too necessary. I like to live on the edge:eplus2:

[NMU Alpine Boarder]

One other thing I have found insanely helpful: WEARING A BRIGHT ORANGE JACKET!!!

1. My ski club in Santa Rosa loved it the first season I had it because I was always the first to the bottom and in the crowds I was easy to spot.

2. People SEE YOU! Everyone will likely see you. As mentioned above- you stick out of a crowd. If on top of sticking out of a crowd you are going fast they know you know your stuff and give you room instead of trying to make the turn before you pass them.

3. People SEE YOU! If you are lying in the woods after hitting a tree you might be a bit easier to spot. You should never ever go into the trees by yourself in the first place, but being bright makes it easier for the ski patrol to find you. :o

LMFAO!!!! The only problem with doing that in Michigan is that you would be passed off as a total noobie in that outfit :lol:

I don't know how many beginners you can see wearing their hunting jackets on the slopes here in the Midwest

[scotts.Scheinman]

yeah they piss me off partly beacuse i live with a skiing family. 2 is crap i have been hit my more skiiers than snowboarders. Kids think skiing is easier so they ski. I am sure we all fell trying to learn. Kids dont like that so they give up. And as for 4 isnt there enough snow for them. if they dont like it why dont they go to deer valley or taos where they can ski by themselvs

[GremUSA]

Skiers and boarders are two different ilk, think and move on completely different lines and are bound to clash in many ways.

I enjoy my board liberation yet keep a cautious eye for anything behind.

[Gleb]

at wachussett the other day, i think snowboarders outnumbered skiiers 2 to 1. It was kinda wierd.

[Mike T]

I got a good one the other day at Meadows. I'd brought two boards up to the mountain, and was waiting to put one in the board check. The ski corral is divided into two sections, one for boards, one for skis, so I was standing by the gate to the ski area when the bubblegum-chewing teenage girl working the ski check said to me with a nice teenage mix of boredom and contempt "skis are over there."

I really didn't hear her, so I said "what?"

"Skis are over there." she said, louder, this time indicating the direction by jerking her head.

I looked at her...really not much you can say, is there? Finally I just said "this...this is not a ski."

"Skis are over there"...heh, in retrospect, that's pretty funny.

LOL - same thing has happened to me @ Meadows half a dozen times. One guy got really pissy about it.

[garyj]

dont usually care what other people think.

funny...skipuppy mentioned that as alpiners we dont usually scrape the snow off...exactly, BUT

I got "reprimanded" by some old bitty once..me and about 3 other carvers...because of the trenches we were leaving!

nothing will satisfy some people

Yes! but how satisfying it is to lay treches deep enough to trip up these complainers skidding across the fall line. :o

[skipuppy]

aren't the best boats supposed to "slice/carve" through water?

aren't the best airplanes supposed to "slice/carve" through air?

aren't the best snowboards supposed to ..... scrape snow?

[RDY_2_Carve]

If you come from uphill and run over my kid, even if he is a beginner, and even if he is taking up the whole trail, it's 100% your fault.

Ok first off I totally agree with this but I want to run a scenario by you that happened to me last season:

I'm on a catwalk. It's maybe 15 feet wide and I start to come up on a 30-40 year old lady in front of me with her neice skiing in front of her. We are going UPHILL on said catwalk and the lady and her neice are taking up the WHOLE catwalk going back and forth. On top of that they are alternating with each other so that when one is on the right the other is on the left. At this point I've attempted passes on both sides of them only to be cut off and have to skid to keep from taking out the older lady. Now that I've lost almost all of my momentum I'm getting desperate to pass them and I see the window and pass the aunt on the left. I get passed her and I'm 1/2 way from passing the neice and she comes barreling towards me as expected. I slam into a right-turn-skid but it's too late. I end up running right over the back of her skis and take her out.

Now I knew I was totally at fault here and I don't deny that still. I helped the little girl get back up while apologizing over and over to both her and the aunt despite getting the biggest earful from the aunt I've ever gotten on the slopes. She kept yelling at me (it didn't seem to matter what I said) saying I almost hit her and then I took out her neice and that she should turn me in to the patrol and this and that...Again I agreed with her-my fault totally-I was uphill.

I never once argued that they shouldn't be taking up the whole catwalk and there was no reason for them to be turning like that on a very flat-uphill section of the mountain. I just bit my lip.

Don't you think there are exceptions to the rule? I just don't think it applies to every single scenario. IMHO the "downhill skiier" can cause accidents in certain situations as well.

P.S. There is still no excuse for running into somebody. Next time I'll be more patient! Or just dive into the trees! ;)

[carve4life]

Ok first off I totally agree with this but I want to run a scenario by you that happened to me last season:

I'm on a catwalk. It's maybe 15 feet wide and I start to come up on a 30-40 year old lady in front of me with her neice skiing in front of her. We are going UPHILL on said catwalk and the lady and her neice are taking up the WHOLE catwalk going back and forth. On top of that they are alternating with each other so that when one is on the right the other is on the left. At this point I've attempted passes on both sides of them only to be cut off and have to skid to keep from taking out the older lady. Now that I've lost almost all of my momentum I'm getting desperate to pass them and I see the window and pass the aunt on the left. I get passed her and I'm 1/2 way from passing the neice and she comes barreling towards me as expected. I slam into a right-turn-skid but it's too late. I end up running right over the back of her skis and take her out.

Now I knew I was totally at fault here and I don't deny that still. I helped the little girl get back up while apologizing over and over to both her and the aunt despite getting the biggest earful from the aunt I've ever gotten on the slopes. She kept yelling at me (it didn't seem to matter what I said) saying I almost hit her and then I took out her neice and that she should turn me in to the patrol and this and that...Again I agreed with her-my fault totally-I was uphill.

I never once argued that they shouldn't be taking up the whole catwalk and there was no reason for them to be turning like that on a very flat-uphill section of the mountain. I just bit my lip.

Don't you think there are exceptions to the rule? I just don't think it applies to every single scenario. IMHO the "downhill skiier" can cause accidents in certain situations as well.

P.S. There is still no excuse for running into somebody. Next time I'll be more patient! Or just dive into the trees! ;)

Since you and the said victims of your crime, were actually going UPHILL. Technically, YOU were DOWNHILL from them!!! SOOO..its their fault. Right? right? Maybe not.:p