Do these comments piss you off too?

[Jack M]

Deleting the comment doesn't help any, I just hope you consider changing your attitude about these things. Several times a year we have these discussions and almost always someone posts something like you did. "That beginner was turning unpredictably when I hit him, it's his fault". "Who could have known that guy would just be standing there under the drop-off, it's his fault." "Beginners shouldn't be on the expert trails, it's their fault". If he's downhill from you, it's your fault no matter that he was turning unpredictably, in over his head, whatever. If you can't avoid him, you're in violation of the code.

Unfortunately the code is ambiguous. One item says to ski/ride in a manner in which you can avoid people and objects below you. Another says to yield when starting downhill or entering a trail. Another says do not stop where you are not visible from above. So it gives one rule and then two rules that let you break the first rule. Which one takes precedence? Are the rules weighted?

But I agree, random turns or being in over their head do not excuse you if you hit them. If they are underway and below you, you have to avoid them.

[Tommy D]

I got this from the National Ski Patrol website:

Your Responsibility Code

Skiing and snowboarding can be enjoyed in many ways. At areas you may see people using alpine skis, snowboards, telemark skis, cross country skis, and other specialized equipment, such as that used by the disabled. Regardless of how you decide to enjoy the slopes, always show courtesy to others and be aware that there are elements of risk in skiing that common sense and personal awareness can help reduce. Observe the code listed below and share with other skiers and riders the responsibility for a great skiing experience.

1. Always stay in control, and be able to stop or avoid other people or objects.

2. People ahead of you have the right of way. It is your responsibility to avoid them.

3. You must not stop where you obstruct a trail, or are not visible from above.

4. Whenever starting downhill or merging into a trail, look uphill and yield to others.

5. Always use devices to help prevent runaway equipment.

6. Observe all posted signs and warnings. Keep off closed trails and out of closed areas.

7. Prior to using any lift, you must have the knowledge and ability to load, ride and unload safely.

Know the code. It's your responsibility.

This is a partial list. Be safety conscious.

I wish this was printed on more napkins at more resorts... I do see it at most resorts as signage, etc, but that's not enough: The little cartoon images that went on the napkins was great, and I remember my dad and I talked about it quite a bit during our lunches while I was growing up on skis.

It would be interesting to do some random polling of skiers AND snowboarders to see how many of them know the code. Do you?

[Tommy D]

Unfortunately the code is ambiguous. One item says to ski/ride in a manner in which you can avoid people and objects below you. Another says to yield when starting downhill or entering a trail. Another says do not stop where you are not visible from above. So it gives one rule and then two rules that let you break the first rule. Which one takes precedence? Are the rules weighted?

I don't think it's any less ambiguous than the rules of the road: Yielding at intersections; checking for traffic before merging; giving yourself enough room to stop or avoid a colision with the car in front of you ...

Unfortunately, I've noticed that people tend to ski/ride like they drive: Totally inconsiderate(oblivious??) of other vehicles/people around them.

Regardless of "Rules" or "codes", whatever happened to common curtesy or situational awareness????

[Neil Gendzwill]

Well, if you merge onto the trail from a blind entrance or stand under a blind drop, that's a problem. But OTOH as skilled riders (which we all are, right? right?) I believe we have a further responsibility to ensure safety. So if you know there's a blind entrance to a trail, don't be bombing past it, anticipate. If you're going to launch off a drop-off, have a spotter or some other way of making sure it's clear.

[Guest Todd Stewart]

I'm surprised some of you guys expect beginners to one, stay in control and two, be conscious of where they are going. They are beginners, therefore the do not know how to ski/snowboard in control and we can't expect them to know all the rules of the hill, did you read the skier code the first time you strapped in? As experts it is our responsibility to identify, respect and avoid any beginners on the hill. The only reason this skier beginner skier bashing is going on is because when a boarder is out of control they wobble over and fall on there butt, a skier will pick up about 10 times more speed then wobble over and run into something, lucky for them its usually an ice patch or rut.

If a beginner doesn’t know how to turn in the first place how can you expect them to steer out you're way; especially when you are changing your trajectory every .5 seconds. Of course they should be responsible and try to maintain control but it is entirely your fault if you're riding plates doing end to end turns at mach 5.

It is ours jobs to stay out of their way, when they see us on some weird pseudo ski set-up coming flying towards them they get scared, freeze and you guessed it, lose control.

If your head is not on a swivel every time you ride, this sport is NOT for you. If you are not prepared to side-slip down an entire run because it’s too crowded, this sport is NOT for you.

[tufty]

Unfortunately the code is ambiguous. One item says to ski/ride in a manner in which you can avoid people and objects below you. Another says to yield when starting downhill or entering a trail. Another says do not stop where you are not visible from above. So it gives one rule and then two rules that let you break the first rule. Which one takes precedence? Are the rules weighted?

I'd say that the two rules are not ambiguous at all.

Yield when starting or entering - don't put someone who is already engaged in a situation where he has to do something dangerous to avoid you, and possibly put other people at risk. In France, that is formulated as : "the skier must always ensure that they can engage in a manner that puts neither themselves nor any other skier in danger" (replace skier by 'user' or 'client' or whatever you like). If you're stopped at the side of the piste, would you in all honestly start a big wide carve if there were a group of 'flat out down the hill skiers' coming, or would you wait?

The second puts other people in a position where they simply cannot avoid putting you in danger from above, as they cannot know that you are there.

Of course, both of these open up all sorts of legal ambiguities. They are all trumped, at least over here, by "The skier should not, by his behaviour or equipment, put into danger other users". Which is common sense, really.

Now, I get right snotty about putting other people in danger : just above where I work is a red slope that comes down directly into an area for absolute beginners. There are nets, signs, poles, god-alone-knows-what to warn the people coming off of what is effectively a world-cup class race piste to slow the hell down. And yet we have at least 3 or 4 broken legs per season caused by (and I hesitate to use the word) 'people' who scream through the baby piste at insane speeds[1]. People like this make me very, very, angry.

I should probably add that the worst offenders for this sem to be younger people on snowblades, who (in a sweeping generalisation) have absolutely no awareness of what's going on, or the danger they are causing. They are closely followed by the 'good' skiers (where 'goodness' is measured in thousands of euros spent on their gear, not in terms of actual ability, and who are aware of the danger but don't seem to think it matters because it's only poor people). Boarders, even complete numbnuts learners, seem to be more calm. Although there are a good few boarders who seem to think 'just under the big bump in the middle of a full-on-screaming-fast-red slope' is the perfect place for a spot of sunbathing. To each our vices, I guess.

I think if we're honest, we've probably all done things that put other people in danger at least once, I'm certainly not perfect, but it is beholden on us all to act in a relatively sane and mature manner. Very few people will come out and seriously say "skiiers / snowbladers are a menace to piste safety", but one snowboarder being irresponsible and the backlash starts.

Oh, and I'm generally quite a chilled guy, but I do take my job seriously. Too seriously, perhaps.

On the upside, resort opens in 2 weeks, we have a good metre of puff at the top, my boards are tuned, the boots are tweaked, and I'm waiting for my mate to give me back my AT skis. And we had 25cm of snow at 900m this afternoon. :)

Simon

[1] These people are generally allowed to remount the lift, spend 15 minutes going up, before being met at the top by the security boys who strip them of their lift pass and put them back on the lift to go back down. 30 minutes getting cold and the removal of your slope priviledges tends to calm you down.

[Jon Dahl]

the worst offenders for snow scraping usually involves a slope that needs no moguls hacked into it, but has been killed by the lesser skilled, and usually the lesser skilled skier. I mean, there are just places where you should just point it, and instead it's got 2-3 foot moguls chopped into it. I hate it when I'm on something long and I gotta hack away when I should just be able to shoot through it. And yes, I wear a helmet, 'cause I've got the brains to carve!!!!

[Allee]

(Guys feel free to correct me here ...)

With the helmet thing - I had a bash at skiing for the first time last season, and from what I can see, you generally know when you're coming down. I haven't lost it over the bars yet, but pretty much every other way! But I've had a few wrecks on the snowboard when you DON'T know you're coming down -you catch a front edge at speed and WHAM! slam your head into the snow. That's why I wear a helmet. That, and I don't like frozen ears.

[Guest dragonsword5]

-you catch a front edge at speed and WHAM! slam your head into the snow.

With smashing your head down do you get that really heavy feeling and your ears start to ring? Even with the helmet my head still hurts like mad afterwards. I've seen my brother fall bad too so we never go on a mountain without a helmet.

[Allee]

With smashing your head down do you get that really heavy feeling and your ears start to ring? Even with the helmet my head still hurts like mad afterwards. I've seen my brother fall bad too so we never go on a mountain without a helmet.

I concussed myself twice with a helmet on. I don't even want to contemplate what sort of state I'd be in without one.

There's a bit of debate on the helmet thing, a lot of medics feel that they actually add to the damage because of the extra weight and bulk to your head. I think I'll take my chances.

[Neil Gendzwill]

There's that whole locked-into-a-carve-whilst-screaming-for-the-trees thing that most skiers don't have to deal with. But I think if you plan to ride aggressively whether skis or a board, you ought to wear a helmet.

[Guest dragonsword5]

I concussed myself twice with a helmet on. I don't even want to contemplate what sort of state I'd be in without one.

Nothing to do with falling into the snow and getting hurt but when my friend and I boardered the ski lift she went to put down the rail bar (which was really old and really heavy) and she didn't tell me to watch my head and it landed right ontop of my helmet. Even with the helmet I saw stars. I was extremely happy that I had it then.

[skipuppy]

Most of my potential head injuries come from "raising the bar" on the lift and knocking into my sister or mom while sitting together. Helmets allow us to be clumsy while sitting without hurting ourselves.

[Guest dragonsword5]

Most of my potential head injuries come from "raising the bar" on the lift and knocking into my sister or mom while sitting together. Helmets allow us to be clumsy while sitting without hurting ourselves.

Well I don't think I got out of the "lowering the bar" incident quite unscathed with the headache I got that lasted through a few runs though helmets do allow you to act clumsy to an extent.

I finally got my friend to buy a helmet and I hope she keeps it.

[Yard Sale]

Ski patroller to me while strapping into my O.Sin 4807 today at Mt. Rose: "Did you make that yourself?"

[Mike T]

There's a bit of debate on the helmet thing, a lot of medics feel that they actually add to the damage because of the extra weight and bulk to your head.

IMHO that's a valid argument - for little kids. OPn the smallest of skiers, I can see where a helmet would increase the risk of neck damage more than it would decrease the risk of concussion.

But for adults - I think the helmet is an excellent tradeoff. I truthfully don't even notice my Boeri while I am riding (or on the lift), it's not the lightest of helmets but it's not heavy enough to notice. I'm pretty sure it's prevented at least two concussions, and softened the blow from @$$holes lowering the lift bar too quickly and without warning at least two dozen times.

[Neil Gendzwill]

I never got hit in the head from the lift bar before I got my helmet. It adds enough bulk that I get clunked fairly routinely now. I think that's a wash.

[carve4life]

yeah, the only reason I get hit in the head now is BECAUSE I wear a helmet, but thats ok.

[Mike T]

I never got hit in the head from the lift bar before I got my helmet. It adds enough bulk that I get clunked fairly routinely now. I think that's a wash.

I've been hit by the bar without a helmet - someone pulled the bar down immediately after getting on the lift while I was still getting situated. Hurt like a mofo.

[D-Sub]

I totally flipped out on someone for that last year...no warning and KAPOW. My first instinct was to put up my dukes (Ive done this every time Ive ever been hit in the head. kinda funny really) and then I got grumpy about it because they had to have heard it. didnt even say sorry. really, really, MORONS.

argh. made my teeth clank together even. had I had a helmet i still woulda been pissed

[Guest jager]

I wear a helmet because at the speeds one can reach, especially running gates (which I find enormously fun. it's fast), it makes sense. I drive my car at that sort of speed and that has all the metal and crap around me. I figure I may crack my body up but my brain is sending the signals for everything else to run. And I concussed myself way too many times before I used one. Many times per season. That heel edge catch and whack! Off to la-la land. And I don't mean Los Angeles. LOL!

[Tommy D]

I totally flipped out on someone for that last year...no warning and KAPOW. My first instinct was to put up my dukes (Ive done this every time Ive ever been hit in the head. kinda funny really) and then I got grumpy about it because they had to have heard it. didnt even say sorry. really, really, MORONS.

argh. made my teeth clank together even. had I had a helmet i still woulda been pissed

Yeah. That happened to me last weekend: Each time the bar came down, I had to force it back up (3times!) before the goof got the message (I said nothing, but sure wanted to). Before my skis even left the launch ramp, the bar was coming down! I understood he probably wanted to protect his kids from falling out, but I guess he didn't mind knocking me out of the chair.

As soon as I was settled, I pulled down the bar.

[skatha]

I concussed myself twice with a helmet on. I don't even want to contemplate what sort of state I'd be in without one.

There's a bit of debate on the helmet thing, a lot of medics feel that they actually add to the damage because of the extra weight and bulk to your head. I think I'll take my chances.

Whichever medics you may be referring to, they certainly DON'T belong to the American Association of Neurologic Surgeons....

I do what those guys say and they say helmets are good....

I-guess-I caught a heelside last January and landed on my head, I really don't remember

[Guest dragonsword5]

After my fun bar incident when I get on the lift I plaster myself against the back of the seat and reach up for the bar myself and say watch out or watch your head. I don't let anyone touch the bar unless im as far away from it as possible :p

[queequeg]

I have never worn a helmet in the past but I plan to in the future. I am not looking forward to it, but get used to it I will.

I believe there are some hidden benefits to helmets:

When other skiers/riders see a helmet, they recognize instantly that you are not out for a sunday drive-- and I believe they tend to stay away. The helmet combined with a long, stiff, skinny, board that says "all-business" provides a solid cue to other skiers that a wide berth is the wise way to go.

This is what I do to stay safe:

a) stay away from the beginner trails.

b) stay away from popular diamonds, as they tend to have lots of people on them that are only marginally capable of navigating them.

c-a) ride faster than everyone on the mountain, to decrease the possibility that you will be hit from behind. The only times I have ever been hit were from behind.

c-b) do not ride so fast that you cannot stop or change direction very suddenly, and with increased speed keep an increased distance from other riders.

c-d) plan your line and wait for the right opportunity to take it.

c-e) Slow Down BEFORE you reach a congested area in the slope, and look for them way in advance.

d) Stay Visible. Avoid blind spots. stay away from the sides where trails merge.

d) know that it's a dangerous, dangerous sport and that many years without an accident only ups the odds that you will have one in the future, and ride accordingly.

e) Look around.

My biggest close-call was in Wilamette pass in Oregon--I accidentally loaded up the nose, got launched and ended up flying off the trail and going between two trees - my head missed hitting a tree by a matter of inches.

(Guys feel free to correct me here ...)

With the helmet thing - I had a bash at skiing for the first time last season, and from what I can see, you generally know when you're coming down. I haven't lost it over the bars yet, but pretty much every other way! But I've had a few wrecks on the snowboard when you DON'T know you're coming down -you catch a front edge at speed and WHAM! slam your head into the snow. That's why I wear a helmet. That, and I don't like frozen ears.