Downsizing Boots

[Jack M]

21 hours ago, Odd Job said:

I downsize on 25.6 cm foot to 25MP boots for softboots. 24 hardboots.

Honestly wondering how downsizing a full size or more is even possible.  I know it's not that unusual but I know I couldn't do it.  I "downsize" my 28.0 and 28.4 feet into a 28.0 boot and my 28.4 big toe is firmly pressed against the end of the boot.  Do you curl your toes?  What happens when you do the shell test, are your heel and toe both touching plastic?  Are your feet permanently cold?  Do you lose toenails? 

Anyone else downsize this much too?

[Carvin' Marvin]

I used to downsize but regrowing my big toenails every spring became too much of a hassle.  I'd much rather put on an extra sock then deal with "performance fit" boots again.

And yeah, my toes were curled all day.  Not in a good way either.

[boardguru]

Nope, I want a bit of room for my toes so that my toenails don't turn black and fall off. 

[leeho730]

I downsized Raichle/Deeluxe boots. 25.5cm, uses 24. All other boots, ski boots included, are on 25.
 

Can’t imagine going to 23 on Deeluxe.

 

EDIT: I’ve heard some Alpine ski competitors do downsize that much and go as far as removing toenails…

Edited March 26 by leeho730

[dhamann]

a few mm from measured mondo is probably max for most folks in an alpine boot to size down. i measure 28.7 and 28.9 feet in a 28-28.5 UPZ 312bsl shell, low volume plug wrap liner twice molded with double toe caps on larger foot. no shell punch needed. call it luck, but it works. shell test is 1.25-1.5 fingers.

sticking as close to measured mondo foot size with softies is probably best and size up, not down. alpine boots have buckles that really hold the foot down and back into heel pocket a lot better than what can be achieved with laces/boa/etc. on a softboot. maybe up to a few mm larger is ok with softy. if sized up and a performance fit is desired, maybe a high volume liner like those yellow powerwraps would work. of course there are extremes of racer fit and scrunched toes, etc. replacing liner with a low volume liner to accommodate a slightly smaller size boot shell and also having alpine boot shells punched out. why do i feel like i'm saying things you already know? heck, you helped me go from a 30 mondo deeluxe into a 28upz.

[Corey]

I hate my toes hitting the end of any footwear at any time. Then add in the leverage of hardboots and my big toes were in agony in 27 Deeluxes with low 28.x feet. My big toenails grew back much thicker and uglier. Hard pass on doing that again! 

It's the arch shape/molding that holds your foot anyway, so get a match for that and the toes could be much longer than needed. 

 

[Odd Job]

7 hours ago, Jack M said:

Honestly wondering how downsizing a full size or more is even possible.  I know it's not that unusual but I know I couldn't do it.  I "downsize" my 28.0 and 28.4 feet into a 28.0 boot and my 28.4 big toe is firmly pressed against the end of the boot.  Do you curl your toes?  What happens when you do the shell test, are your heel and toe both touching plastic?  Are your feet permanently cold?  Do you lose toenails? 

Anyone else downsize this much too?

No black toenails or lost toenails. My feet always run cold, so I'm not sure. They're as warm or as cold as other people. I do not curl my toes. Shell test, I may have half a finger width? or less? Intuition liners really do pack out quite well in places for high volume (powerwrap/prowrap). If I went custom foam and did custom shell work, I may possibly be able to do 23, but then I would have binding issues....

It's probably for the best as Deeluxe's have huge heel pockets. I would never ride a 25MP boot for hardboots, no way.

Extra info: the stock liners that come with Deeluxe are crap and there is no way I can ride in a 24MP boot with it, but it was more from my feet hurting from not as much room for width, not length.

I size up 1 MP for streetwear for toe room. So US 8.5.

Edited March 27 by Odd Job

[barryj]

Well, my feet are like thermo nuclear devices, they never get cold!.....even after downsizing.

Fin told me way back my size 11 Raichle Suzuka  boots were too big (even though my street shoe size was 11.5-12 depending on the shoe) and that I needed to downsize to get the best performance.

So I went down to modo 28/size 10 and yes it's a tight fit for a day or two but then my feet and the liner make amends and then it's all good.

No jammed toes....but they are touching when standing but not touching when I'm on the board clipped in.

I don't use the oem Deeluxe liner so the only problem is when I have to break in a new Intuition liner.....or maybe the liner breaks in my feet.......not quite sure.....but like I said it only takes a day or two and then I don't even notice the fit.

But I got none of the notorious Deeluxe Heel Lift.......... 

[dhamann]

same exact thing @barryj almost to a T. i don't know where the size chart for deeluxe is, but this is the one i refer to for UPZ and most things mondo related.

 

[Jack M]

17 hours ago, leeho730 said:

I downsized Raichle/Deeluxe boots. 25.5cm, uses 24. All other boots, ski boots included, are on 25.

It's probably brand-dependent.  I tried downsizing Deeluxe Track 700s a full size once and the performance was great - no more heel lift.  Comfort was acceptable.  It would have worked, without curled toes, but the dealbreaker was the Intec cable pressing into my heel.  I was married to step-ins at the time, so I sold the boots quickly.

 

8 hours ago, barryj said:

Fin told me way back my size 11 Raichle Suzuka  boots were too big (even though my street shoe size was 11.5-12 depending on the shoe) and that I needed to downsize to get the best performance.

In hindsight, this tracks (haha) with my experience.

 

10 hours ago, Odd Job said:

It's probably for the best as Deeluxe's have huge heel pockets. I would never ride a 25MP boot for hardboots, no way.

For Deeluxe, yeah.  You'd probably be in the Mountain Slope "A" shell which is for sizes 24-25.

https://www.mountain-slope.com/shop/

[inkaholic]

Can't really use Odd Job as reference to anything boot/foot wise. His feet look like they were drawn by a 1st or 2nd grader. Club feet.

I think they may have been bound like a geisha when he was a wee lil odd job.

ink

[SunSurfer]

And the counterview. I run mondo 29 feet in mondo 29 Intuition Pro Wrap liners in the correct size UPZ shell for mondo 29 feet. I have had the shells stretched to give my big toes more wiggle room. Scrunching the toes up seems counterproductive to me, given that the big toe in particular is an important part of fine balance mechanics. My toes stay warm and comfortable and my toenails don't need to recover after each winter.

Getting appropriately moulded instep orthotics then remoulding the liners with the orthotic in situ was a key step in me getting adequate heel hold and being able to set my buckle tension to a sufficient level for control but I don't have to unbuckle for lift rides. I would encourage orthotics rather than boot downsizing.

[Jack M]

I'm with you, @SunSurfer.  Luckily my feet are a perfect match for MS C-shell.  No downsizing needed, or possible.

[pokkis]

It also depends lot of liners you use. When i got Zipfits i realized that i could go one size down without any issues. Later found that also thermos work, you just need to find way how to therm them.

[rst]

my feet are 26.7cm and relatively narrow 93mm 

951 shell A + palau 25.5

 

very tight fit; not recommending; but shell B is too large for me

 

PS

used to have UPZ 279 shell

[kibber]

There is not a direct relationship between mondo point and volume, different brands or different models within a brand can have different volumes with same mondo point. Within models of UPZ, generally speaking, race boots have less volume than recreational. I have two brand new pairs of UPZ boots; 2023 RCR’s and 2024 AT8’s, mondo point on both boxes say “25,5”. The mm/last #’s say 258/279mm, 266/287mm respectively. I have thinnest intuition race plug liners in RCR’s and intuition M-volume Luxury liners in AT8’s. How can same Mondo have different volumes. because! that’s why.

Doing a shell fit w bare feet is Priority 1, then determining proper volume liner is Priority 2, then addressing any special fitment w arch, weird toe/foot shape, skinny/big shins, whatever, P3.

[Jonny]

Feet are L/R 28.6/28.2. Deeluxe 27 shells with Intuition Dreamliner LV. Toenails intact and feet much warmer in the Deeluxe than in my very cold Nordica Speedmachine ski boots. 

A couple of things may be making this possible: First of all the Deeluxe can't really be a legit 27 - I don't have half a finger barefoot in the shell but I do have maybe 3mm. The boots have been blown out for width to 107/110 so there's no constriction whatsoever in that respect. I wear thin  wool Injinji toe-socks instead of any ski-sock, so my toes aren't compressed at all by the sock - this seems to make a big difference although it doesn't help much with the ski boots and in fact I have to be a little careful not to injure my little toe when cramming myself into those.

In both boots I am, for the first time in my life, completely comfortable all day. No cramping, no slop, rarely a need to unbuckle on the lift. I can feel the toe against the front but it isn't curled under at all.

[Odd Job]

5 hours ago, inkaholic said:

Can't really use Odd Job as reference to anything boot/foot wise. His feet look like they were drawn by a 1st or 2nd grader. Club feet.

I think they may have been bound like a geisha when he was a wee lil odd job.

ink

Which is also why it should generally work for other people, lower volume feet! I suspect crap liners or just an intolerance to the sensation of the toe touching the end of the boot.

20 minutes ago, Jonny said:

A couple of things may be making this possible: First of all the Deeluxe can't really be a legit 27

I wondered about this as well. I wonder if you are sensing the cavernous heel pocket. It's ****ing huge on Deeluxe. My less than one finger shell fit feels like two before I get down to the very bottom, and I have to cram my arm in there and do some weird contortions. Fwiw, the MountainSlope A shells fit fantastic with my powerwrap liner molded to Deeluxe 24MP boots.

[leeho730]

11 hours ago, pokkis said:

It also depends lot of liners you use. When i got Zipfits i realized that i could go one size down without any issues. Later found that also thermos work, you just need to find way how to therm them.

I’m on the same boat. I use zipfit liner on downsized Raichle 24 boots for my 25.5cm foot. It has a very thin toe area which helps.

UPZ, Dynafit, Rossignol boots are on size 25 with stock liners and with either custom insole or better ski boot insoles.

Edited March 28 by leeho730

[SunSurfer]

@kibber Thanks for the UPZ shell comparison at the "same" mondo. I had assumed all UPZs would have the same internal dimensions at the same mondo. Might be worth a question to the new UPZ distributor. The sizing information on the website would suggest all the shells at a particular mondo point are the same size in mm!

Edited March 28 by SunSurfer

[Ladia]

20 hours ago, SunSurfer said:

Scrunching the toes up seems counterproductive to me, given that the big toe in particular is an important part of fine balance mechanics. 

Very interesting topic and sentence above is extremely important. About 12 years ago I had my  big toe on my left ( front) foot fused . ( put 2 screws in and make joint solid). I can’t put. Any pressure on it now as it was a little bit lifted during surgery to make walking easier. Since that time my toe side became horrible. I tried many boot fitters but no success, they  just try to sell you new insoles but they have no really clue what to do. One guy actually admitted it. I have box of useless insoles.  During cancer treatment gout started at right big toe. Bad one. I recently bought older UPZ  26.5 size and pain on right big toe is bad so I bought another older pair 27.0 to get some extra room. I am just waiting for delivery to try them. I probably will have to used two different sizes before I will make a final decision what size new boots will be. I was at 26.5 over 30 years. That big toe transfer about 40% of force if I remember correctly. Treat it with respect your turns depend on big guy.

[dhamann]

eh. fusions. good to learn about @Ladia and thanks for sharing. upon ankle surgery last February for a lateral process fracture of the talus ("snowboarders ankle"), my ortho mentioned that at some point in my life i will likely have to resort to a fused ankle. i don't know what that really means, but your experience with a toe fusion certainly sheds some light on the situation. now ain't that some s..t? i am almost only 46 yrs old for the record. a spur under left front foot large toe nail had to be fully removed too due to "how i was walking" with a broken ankle for a year. yes, it took a year to get into surgery. i now have to treat with a nail softener almost daily and keep that dam thing cut extra short. next step is to have it removed and chemical the thing so nail never grows back. then also morton's neuroma. i guess we all have some stuff and thankfully downsizing, upsizing, liner options, ortho footbeds all help to find what works for the individual. so many factors. the things we all do to keep snowboarding. treating feet with respect is the worlds most understatement.

[SunSurfer]

Appreciate your big toes.

https://www.theperformancepodiatrist.com.au/our-toeriffic-big-toe/

 

[UPZ North America]

@kibber and I got to snowboard at Brighton with his bud and we demoed some boots.  His advice is sound; get that foot measured in cm, refer to the sizing chart on  UPZBoots.com, do a shell fit test and proceed from there.  We have seen labels that look a little off on some boxes.  The 279 mm shell with 4 4,5 5 stamped on it should fit mp 25-25.5 with UPZ size 5 liners.  The 287 mm shell with 5,5 6 6,5 stamped should fit mp 26-26.5 with UPZ size 6.5 liners.  Each shell fits 3 half sizes except the 279 mm shell.  Hope that helps and hope everything is cool in Kibber Land.

[kibber]

CB, I’m so happy and perfectly “there” with everything; boots, bindings, boards for ANY terrain, snow conditions. It all starts with boots; happy feet = comfort, warmth, performance. It only took me thirty years! Thank You for the time,xtra effort,demo.

RCRs w CatekTribute/TD3SWs/F2Ti’s

AT8’s w F2RS or Ti’s