Should we all just start straight lining? Is getting smoked by the general public from behind the new norm?

[neanderthal]

1 hour ago, Jack M said:

 

How about turn signals so we don't surprise anyone with erratic movements

 

https://www.instagram.com/reel/C3JItUfv7Gu/?utm_source=ig_embed&ig_rid=08a2e708-b65b-42ff-a4e3-9c300732109f&ig_mid=A719977D-4D30-4404-B38F-3F20BB930B90

 

[Odd Job]

Gotta 360 that with 20+ min of rolling footage.

[neanderthal]

Ultimately rules are defined by consequences. 

Absent a credible threat of force(enforcement) there is no rule

[dhamann]

skiing and snowboarding can be a thrill, but is there a thrill in a lack of responsibility as there is with an actual skilled feat? perhaps. let's capture it on camera! then i have proof. = zero responsibility. it may be a two way street, but not currently. is there a social responsibility to manage guests actions or does assumed risk clear this responsibility? apparently, the later.

the codes (and manners) are simply ignored and not enforced. got it. nobody wants to be policed on the hill. some folks like to start out slow and build on their skill etc. throughout the season. however, the times have changed. there's more people on the slopes now so we adapt our habits to the environment. it's more cost effective for a season pass than day tix, so is it a "i have a season pass" syndrome? a less seasoned skier/boarder who only gets out a handful days a year just wants to send it, impress friends or get the shot. "growth" (accessibility/population/development/etc.). we know there is no one answer, but food for thought. take the participation trophy's away. update the camera policy and develop a 'media pass' policy? hands free camera's only. ban selfie sticks. drone's ok if operator remains in fixed location (fixed point and shoot also ok) and gets certified like how snowboarders used to have to get certified. McResorts likely have photo staff already. punch pass strike 1 (loose if day ticket). loose pass strike 2. someone has to do it, so monitored by patrol and photo staff. it could encourage responsibility and on hill awareness to one aspect of the many factors resulting in increased accidents/collisions.

although fun for self, most selfie clips actually discredit what could appear as good riding anyways. it gets old after about 2-3 seconds. sorry

also though, accidents happen. that's why they're called accidents. we've had some articles shared in this thread as to what factors may be a cause of such increases in accidents. then the articles focus on stats, facts of cases and not addressing the cause. how'd the elephant in the room disappear? it's no longer just for the thrill or 'getting better'. not everyone wants to be 'better'. most novice skiers/boarders are just fine with their skill sets and just want to hang and be with friends. nothing wrong with that but education and responsibility deserve greater attention. camera's seem to be the root. w t (f). i really hate sounding old, but with all other factors considered/combined that may not be effectively managed due to the rise in accidents, then maybe address the one thing we can. i believe in 'rules are made to be broken' too, but something should be done. break the rules of physics. meanwhile, focusing on getting better may also deter from one's awareness, so for those learning to get better, carve etc. please learn to chew gum and walk at the same time first. until it's more of a two way street from resorts, recognize it's all on the rider.

[Corey]

Be careful with how much policing you want. If you look at an average ski slope with a critical eye, 99.9% of users go roughly straight down the hill, with few paths crossing. Then there are a tiny % of users that dart and dodge all over the place, weaving back and forth at high accelerations. 

Collisions can only happen when paths intersect. So it's simple: Paint lanes down the run, mandate turn signals, and ban turning. 

This is said tongue-in-cheek, but I had a ski patroller tell me that I "came into his lane" years ago.  Everyone is confident that their ideas are correct and it's everyone else that's the problem. 

[lordmetroland]

4 hours ago, Corey said:

Everyone is confident that their ideas are correct and it's everyone else that's the problem. 

Except the clinically depressed. 

[Jack M]

On 5/12/2024 at 9:21 AM, Corey said:

Be careful with how much policing you want.

Yeah.  Because a significant number of the people doing the policing, if not a majority, will view carving as dangerous or out of control, even if you're going with the flow or even if there is nobody else around you.  This was the case when some mountains used to have "Safety Patrol" in addition to Ski Patrol.  Generally, these were hack volunteer hall monitors who just wanted to score a free season pass and boss people around. 

[st_lupo]

I guess 7 pages of this thread still boils down to either: 1) you are responsible for your own safety, or 2) increasing the price of a season pass to like 1 million USD (with black out dates).   I still think we can do better than that, at least when it involves straight-liners on bunny slopes ramming into 5 year olds (then I would rather have prevention than litigation). 

[Jack M]

6 hours ago, st_lupo said:

increasing the price of a season pass

I love how people used to whine that skiing was too elite and too expensive.  Ikon/Epic/etc came along and said OKAY HERE, problem solved!  Now people whine that skiing is too crowded, and crowded with idiots.  Gee, who could have predicted this?

6 hours ago, st_lupo said:

you are responsible for your own safety

Basically this.  I know people who have been hit multiple times in the past few years, and others who have never been hit.  At the same mountain.  Why is that?

I swear the skier's responsibility code used to have a line like thou shalt not ski terrain beyond your ability.  They probably removed it because no ski patroller/safety patroller/ambassador ever enforced it, ever.

 

[Odd Job]

Only way to limit collisions is to make it more exclusive. People can bitch, but it's not terribly hard to make a decent income in the US. Raising the price by like $1-2k would do the job. Maybe?

Edited May 15 by Odd Job

[barryj]

26 minutes ago, Odd Job said:

Raising the price

Ha!  Maybe we pay extra for tee times like for golf....or pay for a guaranteed solo run like on Nastar.  A

Any way to feel confident I'm not going to be overtaken and/or take out would be worth considering!

 

[ShortcutToMoncton]

3 hours ago, Odd Job said:

Only way to limit collisions is to make it more exclusive. People can bitch, but it's not terribly hard to make a decent income in the US. Raising the price by like $1-2k would do the job. Maybe?

This seems like the worst hot take

[Odd Job]

It's way easier to make money in the US. It's not a huge ask to raise the price 1-2K and weed lazy people out.

It would lessen the load enough so that the slopes don't feel like a free-for-all and everyone there is either:

- so loaded, they don't care.

- have made discrete steps/sacrifices/goals to enjoy the slopes.

Edited May 16 by Odd Job

[ShortcutToMoncton]

I feel like you keep bringing up about how easy it is to make money. Is this some sort of get rich without doing anything scheme? Ski 100 days a year and still make 200k sort of thing? Sanitation workers and teachers and nurses shouldn’t be allowed to ski with the rest of us? 

Wtf does any of this have to do with lazy people? Is the suggestion “poorer people don’t ski as well?” “Poorer people aren’t as nice to associate with”? “The notorious lower-class skier ruins everything?”

Just a super weird take. I make money and could probably afford one of the various local private hills but have no interest in increasing my season’s pass costs. I grew up sneaking all-day runs from a half-day pass because we couldn’t afford the tickets and shadowing the snowboard instructors because I couldn’t buy lessons. That doesn’t mean I couldn’t figure out how to get down the hill properly. 
 

just strange

[Odd Job]

No. Just stating raising the price won't exclude a large number of the population, but enough so that it would lessen the load noticeably. Decreased density means less chances of stupid shit happening.

Most people priced out can claw their way back up to affording it within a 5 year span pending on circumstances. Those willing/able to climb their way back up will likely not be doing stupid shit on the slopes.

Nurses/Sanitation workers can make 6 figures. Some are loaded due to good financial habits. My neighbor just asked about tech boot camps because she wanted to get into remote work. No college degree. She likely will be getting 150-200K in Colorado within a 5 year span if she sticks with it. The US is great!

Edited May 16 by Odd Job

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Instead of making it more expensive for everyone else and denying access based on wealth instead of ability, why don’t you just join a private hill? Sounds like a win win for everyone. 

[pow4ever]

the battle of have and have not continue - didn't we just had couple war on this?
rene girard mimetic theory:  the more we alike the more conflict rise.

Oddjob is one of the nicest person IRL.  attenuated our/other online persona signal with grain of salt.

ecno theory 101 - 

The tragedy of the commons refers to a situation in which individuals with access to a public resource (also called a common) act in their own interest and, in doing so, ultimately deplete the resource.  Resources here being wide open run without getting running over.

[Jack M]

I think most people are simultaneously smart in some ways and complete idiots in others.   While raising prices might decrease density, it wouldn't filter out people who can't be bothered to avoid people below them. 

[st_lupo]

As much as I am in agreement with Shortcut and others that delineation based on merit rather than money would be most beneficial to the sport in general, I can’t count how manu times I’ve thought that I would be willing to pay double or more for my season pass if the local hill restricted the number of people on the slope or had an early risers special.

 

[Gossamer]

I haven't read all 7 pages so if someone has thought of this I apologize. Starting next season at Powder Mountain here in Utah I will be dressed and carving as a bear, everybody is scared of bears and they will not come close to me! (insert evil Gru laugh here ) All I know is I've spent so much time looking down hill in my carving career, trying to complete beautiful turns (15 years) and have spent the last 5 trying to look forward and back (each turn by the way) to try to keep a promise to my wife not to get hurt, because if someone plows into the back of me she is the one you will have to deal with.  (Mercy on your soul ) Wish things were different up on the hill but I feel that the world is just getting stupidier. I pray for all of us.

[barryj]

After 7!  pages of wishful thinking replies my conclusion is.....        Every Man For Himself!   Nobody's going to look out for me but me!

So statistically I'm sure it won't improve my odds of not getting taken out by stupid people doing stupid things on the hill but here's my plan for a New Neon "You Got No Excuse For Not Seeing Me Now Mofo!"..... kit for next season!

It might be a false sense of security but the orange "Macaw" hue sure won't hurt my odds  and makes me feel less a target for hard objects!

Here's my current workday kit for comparison.......

Edited May 17 by barryj

[Odd Job]

@barryj I wear an all-orange jacket and blue pants. I still get close calls, but I think they're of the variety "I see him, but I'm going to try and pass anyways!".

[big mario]

Red jacket/black pants mimicking ski patrol. Still get strafed.  Thinking stupid is as stupid does, visible or not, it doesn't matter

[barryj]

39 minutes ago, big mario said:

visible or not, it doesn't matter

As I said, maybe a false sense of security.  Did I need a new kit....no, not really but for me it's a step in the right direction to making me feel safer.  Am I going to check my 6 any less.....absolutely not!

I can't control what stupid people do.......all I can do,  all any of us can do out there is Look Out For Ourself!

The only real solution that guarantees our safety is abstinence/retirement  from the sport.   When were on the hill,  for work or not, as we all know the risk cannot be controlled......

So that's what the bean counters at my work have decided for me because of my collision case......work (aka: our Insurance carrier) isn't  willing to risk me getting hit again and paying out another $500K ......so my job description has been changed and I cannot be on the hill with our student athletes during work hours.   On my own time, evenings, weekends, of course that's up to me.   So I'm delegated to directing the Race program and our Coaches which is what I was doing already but now I supervise from....afar.  

What's my point in this little tirade?  The  reality is We Can't Control The Risk,  we can only control our own decisions and level of risk were willing to take.

I don't know how many more times, seasons, years I am willing to risk another collision by being out there on the Hill.......all I do know is I'm not ready to call it quits yet! 

Do Whatever You Can To At Least Improve Your Chances  Of Staying Safe Out There People! 

 

[Odd Job]

Yep. I won't ever wear a dark color. It's basically inviting "I just never saw you, oops". I'll wear a pink monosuit over a black one. No one wants to hit Caitlyn Jenner from behind!