Need feedback to move beyond expert beginner

[Chouinard]

Video is from second day in Aspen this past Feb 2022. I was fighting my setup.  I was trying to setup a rhythm on a shallow pitch slope then move to steeper pitches. My lower back wont' let me crouch low so this is my style that I want to improve. Looking for insight to open up the rest of the mountain with confidence.

You may have to change the settings to HD to improve the quality.

Different topic. The video is from a recovered GoPr0 10 corrupted SD card using SanDisk recommended software purchased online. The second card needing recovery. Be wary of GoPro 10 file management. Don't view anything on the camera...download to computer.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qo_g5ft8IDQ&t=46s

 

[NateW]

I think it might help to get your hips rotated more forward, and reaching forward with you right hand will  help pull your lower body in that direction.

[Odd Job]

Posting again.

Ability to tip the board carpet boarding is for general balance and edge grip. The other 80+ degrees of edge angle come from transition. You can balance straight legged if you want. You can balance bent knees if you want. You can balance counter-rotated if you want.

 

Otherwise, there would be dryland drills for tipping a board 80+ degrees while carpet boarding in place; and maybe you can also be a pole dancer.

[SunSurfer]

Few things.

If, like me, you lack lower back flexibility, then getting your bindings set to a position that leaves you with the maximum range of movement will make the most of what motion you have.

Agree with NateW, you are likely to benefit from rotating your upper body to face the nose of the board more.

Lastly, Larkspur is a relatively gentle run but, particularly on toeside turns later in the clip, your balance in the turn looks uncertain. Remember that in a turn you are balancing on the outside wall of the groove the board is cutting through the snow. That wall is directly underneath the lateral 1-2 inches of your board. Don't lean your upper body outside of that to initiate the turn. Stay balanced over that edge strip and tilt the board through both of your feet to make the turn. Then your balance will feel more secure.

[yamifumi]

What helped me personally more than any set up was to focus on "looking back". As a recreational carver (not a racer, closed run for race course), there are usually someone behind you who has no idea what WE ARE DOING and "looking back" not only helps with safety but also rotation as well. Here is a great example from Velvet Pro Video, check out 3:09 "Basic rotational carving turn"

I like to think in my head as "closing" the turn. I am regular stance and without bending the top half of the body, I focus on reaching my outer left knee with right hand on heel side turn and reaching inner area of my left knee with left hand on toe side turn. This is the simple things that I focus on but there are other things that I do keep in mind pending condition of snow, type of board, etc.

It works for me and just my 2 cents: I am no instructor and not in position to lecture anybody but just sharing what worked/works for me  Some may say "thats wrong" .... errrr I really don't care. I look fine, enjoy riding, and I am at a point where I don't have to mess with my set-up (set it and forget it).

 

I hope this helps. I hope to see you again in Aspen next year  

[Jack M]

Hi Chouinard, I would say the same thing to you as I did to Pat, here:

https://forums.alpinesnowboarder.com/topic/53274-constructive-criticism-sought/?do=findComment&comment=527644

You're also not committing to your toeside edge at all.  I'd say find a wide, uncrowded, moderate green circle trail and practice The Norm.

[johnasmo]

Hips.
Hips.
Hips.
It's all about the hips.

That's my 2 cents, but I'll elaborate.

All the physics of carving cares about is you center of gravity/mass and how your feet are positioning the board relative to it as you balance on the edge.  Imagine your CG and bindings forming a triangle and each foot of the triangle as a shoe that can be inclined plus, minus, or perpendicular to the line from its edge your CG.  Perpendicular works.  Being at a sharper angle with the snow than the angle balancing your GC works to stay in trench.  Being at a lower angle with the snow than the angle balancing your CG slides out of the trench.  Your inputs control the angle with the snow at each binding.  I.e., the tilt at the front and rear of the board are controlled separately.

The position of your hips, fore/aft, rotationally, and angulation relative to board, are the key to *everything*.  Well, maybe *everything* is an exaggeration, where your looking, or where your hands, arms, or shoulders are is practically irrelevant compared to how and where you've positioned your hips.

I used to say, "steer with your d**k."  Now I have another way to think about it.  Pretend you are trying to pee on the snow without getting your pants wet.  Every turn.  Pee, pee, pee, repeat it like a mantra.

If your hips go the other way, your rear knee takes edge angle away from the tail and it will slide out.  If you get your hips ahead of turn, you don't need to twist upper torso much beyond any additional angulation you can to further *raise* your CG relative to the edge tilt you are balancing on.

Simple, no?

Don't stop at parallel to your boots if you're going to keep twisting and reaching with your upper body beyond that.  If anything, leave upper body static and relaxed over hips and twist hips until things work.  In practice, you'll barely have to lead the turn at all, but leading is *way* better than trailing the turn.  It's because of the inputs each foot ends up putting into the board tilt.  There's evidence in your video that your hip bone (connected to you knee bone) is trailing the on the heal side turns.

 

[softbootsurfer]

You are late in this particular Video, meaning you start a turn and then wander across the fall line into the next turn, then repeat, I suggest laying down a track next year of the widest turns you can and then going inside that track for the next five runs, it looks to me as if you are Reacting to the Board rather than the Board Reacting to you...this has really nothing to do with equipment, though I was glad to see you on a shorter softer stick this year, it has to do with being aggressive and telling your Stick where to go...Vision down the hill equals anticipation, which is needed to develop the plan or turns needed to get there...some of the comments above, as well as the picture I posted of you before, shows exactly what I am saying here, you are late to rotate, leaving your hips open as you wander across the fall line, your hips as you go down the hill can be a moving All the Time, rotating All the time , releasing one turn into the next...of course this is just my opinion having watched your video, as well as watching you ride in person...

[dredman]

Sorry to sound like a broken record, Montucky Clear CUT clinics.  6 professional instructors, 1 former World Cup Coach and 2 former World Cup Racers…Clinics daily for all abilities.

 

[west carven]

howdy

I would say try riding a steeper pitch, it would make you think and move faster to slow down, be more dynamic... not the waltz more like break dancing... takes body control to manipulate your board... don't be a stiff rider...

[Gossamer]

I'm impressed that you can concentrate with that serious lumber at the edges of the run, the past few years I've worked on "keeping my chest facing the fall line" something I once thought only applied to skiing. 20 years and I think I've figured it out, this one like the last one...

[johnasmo]

P.S.
Back mobility doesn't need to hold you back.  I've got old-man back, L5/S1 and L4/L5 and SI joint issues.  I rode with a Sparthos Back Brace all winter.  Riding is better for my back than sitting at the computer.

Getting your center of gravity lower shouldn't involve breaking at the waist and flexing your lower back.   It doesn't even need to involve much spinal rotation unless you're going for chest-on-the snow EC carves.  You should be able to carve while maintaining good back posture.

What it takes is bending your knees.  Dropping your butt lower and using your femurs like rudders to drive your knees toward the snow from a position above the knees, to the *high* side of the perpendicular with the board edge if possible.    That's why higher binding angles and narrower boards make carving easier.

The expression should only be "drive your knees", not "drive with your knees".  Driving your knees toward the snow is what puts the board tilt higher than the angle balancing your CG.  You drive your knees by... wait for it... bending your knees to drop your butt and rotating your hip into the turn.  It's all about the hips.  Sort out the lower body and upper body (including spine) is just style points.

[johnasmo]

P.S. P.S.
Another plug for the MCC clinics.
I got serious about thinking about tilt and center of gravity stuff and how to manipulate them after the gates clinic at the MCC in February.  I've made progress in my carving since the MCC.

For example, why keep your shoulders parallel to the snow?  Why not reach for the snow?  Because trying to keep your shoulders level while tilting the board high on edge brings your center of gravity further to the high side of the board perpendicular.  That makes the board tilt on which you are balanced want to slide to the bottom of the trench, not out of it.  Duh.

Edited April 13, 2022 by johnasmo
spelling

[pow4ever]

This is great!  Love the sharing of "carving journal" as we toward the end of the season.  I am stealing them all.  there are gold in them hills

since my back knee don't work too well lately (insert waaahmbulance/broken record).
I can't bent my back knee down as fast/smooth as i would like and that really mess my edge transition. 
Ir dawn on me If i can't bent down but i sure can lift my knee up.  the subtle mechanic difference seems to accomplished the desired outcome.  

Focus more on transition; planned it out.  Easier say than done for me.  as so many things need to be done correctly.  but i tend to idle and let the mind wonder when i am in the comfort embrace of carve bosom.  instead i should focus more on getting ready for the next turn.  Having a mental check list where is my head, hand/shoulder/cg, knee, feet.  build those muscle memory and adjust the tempo/timing more dynamically.

few random thoughts as the more advance rider have burden of knowledge.  As i journey through regression i might be able to relate better.

square the hip, don't counter rotate, "push/pull", pinch the side, "feed paper underneath the door", be dynamic, up/down, always in motion, rotate more/angulate more they all sounds good on paper when you already experience them; but without those concept/body mechanic clicking already those analogies are difficult to mimic in real condition (especially when the tree/lift tower coming toward you real quick).

MCC "beginner" clinic - great concept but if a rider is only comfortable ridding on Butter Milk West.  Tuner don't have much beginner trails.  Nothing wrong with Milder runs - Buttermilk West/Broadwalk of the Loaf.  Those are some of my favorite trail.  I love mellow cruiser.    For the super stars it's not an issue.  I had a hard time showing up with new board/boots/binding/busted knee and not much riding time under my belt...  talk about hubris....
would I do it again; heck yea but IMHO if you do take the plunge.  Be prepare to get challenge.  Which is part of the fun.

Lastly:
Don't be afraid to fall.  There is some aggressive element to carving.  Our body will do amazing thing to avoid pain.  in avoiding pain sometime we pick up bad habit sometime revelation/clarity came through.  We need to take that leap of faith/pain in order to get to that effortless stage.

[Jack M]

19 hours ago, johnasmo said:

where your looking, or where your hands, arms, or shoulders are is practically irrelevant compared to how and where you've positioned your hips.

It's difficult to get your hips into the right position if you're not looking where you want the carve to go.  If your hands are in a bad place it's likely your shoulders are too - like tilted in or not aligned with your hips.  However I agree just putting your hands in the right place means nothing if the hips are wrong.

[johnasmo]

2 hours ago, Jack M said:

It's difficult to get your hips into the right position if you're not looking where you want the carve to go.

Yeah, I was using a bit of hyperbole to make the point. 

Folllow cam-ing a carver makes your point.  I know how hard it is to keep my chin pointed down the fall line with a GoPro and still stack matching carves above another carver.  Head isn't looking into the carve, shoulders fall behind too, BUT as long as I keep concentrating on lower body (knees and hips), I can generally pull it off.  Stacking is the only way to get close enough shots and not have the background swinging wildly back and forth in the shot.

[Chouinard]

Thanks for the feedback a lot to dig thru and over analyze over the summer. My biggest problem is too few opportunities on an appropriate pitch to practice. I spent threes days in Aspen shaking out the cobwebs before making any progress and by then my legs are shot.

The toe side hesitation is directly related to my lack of confidence in my technique due to the miserable (snow smeared ice) early season conditions before Aspen and a couple of near hits by out of control IDIOTS hiding in the opposite shoulder blind spot.

I rode Larkspur and the lift run most of the time because the covid layoff took a heavy toll on my previous progress.

I like the trees because they force me to turn. On a wider slope I would probably just do bigger side cut turns which would generate excessive speed if the pitch was steeper.

Bottom line for me is I need to progress and it ain’t gonna happen on shallow pitch 180 foot drops where every attempt to carve sends you into an obstruction, stalls you out and never gives you an opportunity to develop a rhythm.

Thanks to Bob for posting elsewhere a video of my goal when I started this in 2014. A few more reps and I’ll be there.

A local shop has one of these. Anyone tried this? Was it helpful?

[Pat Donnelly]

Used to have a Skier's Edge 20 years ago, sold it after a few years.

https://www.skiersedge.com/

Good for cardio & leg conditioning, but so be a bike or roller blading.

But a Onewheel looks like more fun https://onewheel.com/products/onewheel-gt

 

[Chouinard]

Schumakers in Flint has this system…rent by the hour.

[lordmetroland]

2 hours ago, Pat Donnelly said:

Used to have a Skier's Edge 20 years ago, sold it after a few years.

https://www.skiersedge.com/

This may have overtaken the original NordicTrak and rowing machines for top spot on the "most tedious workout" list.

[Odd Job]

Road bike a lot and try to maximize your functional threshold power. Give up alcohol for a while.

[barryj]

On 4/12/2022 at 1:28 PM, Jack M said:

You're also not committing to your toeside edge at all

Hey C,   Ha!  I feel the same way.....stuck at Expert Beginner level!

I'd echo others here.........your looking good enjoying the ride but your not (committing to the turns to) Drive the turn.   To me commit means getting more aggressive....more complete C turns and less edge of trail S turns.   

Your letting the board take you down the hill.              I personally want to Drive the board down the hill, by completing all turns and finishing each turn up hill while setting up my next turn while finishing the last turn.....not letting the trail width dictate when to change direction. 

I'd like to know what board, width, scr, etc and  bindings, boots your on........

Edited April 15, 2022 by barryj

[Beckmann AG]

Chouinard:

Part of your problem is untangling cause and effect:

Cybernetics deployed circular logics of causal action in the core concept of feedback in the directive and purposeful behaviour in human and living organisms, groups, and self-regulating machines. The general principle of feedback describes a circuit (electronic, social, biological, or otherwise) in which the output or result is a signal that influences the input or causal agent through its response to the new situation. W. Ross Ashbyapplied ideas from biology to his own work as a psychiatrist in "Design for a Brain" (1952): that living things maintain essential variables of the body within critical limits with the brain as a regulator of the necessary feedback loops. Parmar contextualises his practices as an artist in applying the cybernetic Ouroboros principle to musical improvisation.[28]

Hence the snake eating its tail is an accepted image or metaphor in the autopoietic calculus for self-reference,[29] or self-indication, the logical processual notation for analysing and explaining self-producing autonomous systems and "the riddle of the living", developed by Francisco Varela. Reichel describes this as:

...an abstract concept of a system whose structure is maintained through the self-production of and through that structure. In the words of Kauffman, is ‘the ancient mythological symbol of the worm ouroboros embedded in a mathematical, non-numerical calculus.[30][31]

A start point is to recognize that you have a leverage problem. That problem will affect posture, which limb segments can move and when they can move, which then affect timing; therefore area consumed with each arc, the depth of each arc, the tilt of the road to each side, etc, etc.

Sent you a pm.

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What have you decided you 'see' in your riding? And why have you decided so?

https://www.peacecorps.gov/educators/resources/story-blind-men-and-elephant/