Lurch Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 3 hours ago, Jack M said: Kids getting into racing has been the only effective change agent I've seen here. Current poll seems to say otherwise Jack? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 31 minutes ago, Lurch said: Current poll seems to say otherwise Jack? Generally speaking, kids aren't on this site. I elaborated on kids getting into racing here. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 18 minutes ago, Jack M said: Generally speaking, kids aren't on this site. I elaborated on kids getting into racing here. Understood, but the vast majority of grown up kids (or not!) that are on this forum dont appear to have any racing heritage. Dont get me wrong, I' m not disputing running gates is a great way to teach kids/adults to carve. Just not sure it converts to substantiallly expanding the alpine gene pool Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 10, 2020 Report Share Posted March 10, 2020 47 minutes ago, Lurch said: Understood, but the vast majority of grown up kids (or not!) that are on this forum dont appear to have any racing heritage. Dont get me wrong, I' m not disputing running gates is a great way to teach kids/adults to carve. Just not sure it converts to substantiallly expanding the alpine gene pool I'm just saying it's the only thing I've ever personally witnessed that has significantly grown the population of hardbooters here. Not saying this is happening everywhere, but if it can happen here, it can happen anywhere. Times are different. There was much more necessity for hardboots for carving back when softboots and bindings sucked. Today softboots can get you most of the way there. So much that most people say it's good enough. At Buttermilk it is all you need. Kids faced with the sight of hardbooters occupying a podium they thought would be theirs can be duly inspired, as has been my recent observation. 4 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 I have tried to get my skiing buddies interested in carving since 2000 and only one showed any interest at all. He bought the gear way back then and went to a carving camp at Mt Hood, took a hard fall and it was over for him. He still occasionally asks me if I am still “long boarding.” I used to wonder why I thought hard boot carving was the coolest thing on the planet and almost nobody, except you guys, showed even the tinyest bit of interest. I’m over it now, just do my thing and go to this site for camaraderie as it ain’t happening on the slopes. I even have Larry Castruita on my Apple Watch face and when I show it to people they say “cool” and then change the subject. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 2 hours ago, 1xsculler said: I even have Larry Castruita on my Apple Watch face and when I show it to people they say “cool” and then change the subject. Am I going to be embarrassed for not knowing who that is? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 6 hours ago, st_lupo said: Am I going to be embarrassed for not knowing who that is? Jack can take it down if he wants. Edited March 15, 2020 by Corey Pic removed per Larry's request 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 I posted this before, Larry with the Milkman behind...Pure Carvers Larry asked me to take it down, after I had posted it, as it was for a story in a magazine to come out... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 IMHO, guys who have skied for many years and who worked hard at developing a rock solid style for everything from heli deep pow to firm hard pack are the most likely to want to try Alpine hard booting. For the most part they grip their poles correctly and firmly, stabbing them in the snow at their tips and pulling them out on EVERY turn; never letting them fly past their bodies. They use their entire bodies for every turn and they generally find the most solid platform in keeping their skis pretty close together no matter the terrain and depth of snow (may not apply to the super skiers who jump off cliffs and make death defying runs for the camera). I see most skiers with zero style pointing their skis one way then the other, no knee or upper body movement to help them in their turns and rare use of their poles. They couldn’t turn if they faced a foot or more of powder. They couldn’t care less about stylish, powerful skiing. Most of those people will never get the attraction to Alpine hard booting. Of course neither will hardly any of the other group. I guess I could be considered to have too much time on my hands to post this dribble. 5 minutes ago, softbootsurfer said: I posted this before, Larry with the Milkman behind...Pure Carvers Larry asked me to take it down, after I had posted it, as it was for a story in a magazine to come out... I think I read that sometime ago but I figured enough time had passed that he wouldn’t care. I originally found it on FB so it’s certainly in the public domain. It’s my computer and watch wallpaper as my inspiration and constant reminder of my goal. If Larry still doesn’t want it here let me know and I can take it down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurch Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, softbootsurfer said: Larry asked me to take it down, after I had posted it, as it was for a story in a magazine to come out... @1xsculler think SBS was asking for a bit of self moderation. Peace. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
st_lupo Posted March 14, 2020 Report Share Posted March 14, 2020 (edited) 4 hours ago, 1xsculler said: Jack can take it down if he wants. Nice! Edited March 15, 2020 by Corey Pic removed per Larry's request Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 When is this pic going to come out in a magazine? I’d like to get a copy of it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carvin' Marvin Posted March 15, 2020 Report Share Posted March 15, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 4:13 PM, Jack M said: I'm just saying it's the only thing I've ever personally witnessed that has significantly grown the population of hardbooters here. Not saying this is happening everywhere, but if it can happen here, it can happen anywhere. Times are different. There was much more necessity for hardboots for carving back when softboots and bindings sucked. Today softboots can get you most of the way there. So much that most people say it's good enough. At Buttermilk it is all you need. Kids faced with the sight of hardbooters occupying a podium they thought would be theirs can be duly inspired, as has been my recent observation. That's why I started the poll. I had the feeling the older crowd here got into hardboots because that was the gear available at the time, but still likely that its racing pulling the new kids in. There was only one other fella at MCC my age that got into carving for the sake of carving. I just happened to be living in the right town at the right time and got hooked before Bomber left town. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gabe T Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 On 3/10/2020 at 5:02 PM, Jack M said: Generally speaking, kids aren't on this site. If they started racing 20 years ago and were still riding alpine, then they would no longer be kids today. : ) Where are they now? I just get the feeling that even if you get kids into racing, that doesn’t necessarily translate into a life long passion. I think there are many reasons kids might get into racing. Being deeply passionate about the sport may not be everyone’s motivation. Even for those who are more serious and competitive that dedicate most or all of their snow time to alpine during their racing years, I wonder how many continue to do the same once they stop racing. Do they shift gears to freeriding for pleasure or do they use that freedom as an opportunity to experience different things on the mountain? I recall seeing a story a few year back about Ross Rebagliati and I got the impression that he spent all his mountain time on skis. In the past 20 years, I’ve definitely seen a decline locally in the number of racers at the Provincial races that are usually held at my home hill. It seems that many of the clubs that once had race programs just don’t have enough interest or resources to continue with programs. There’s also been a decline in the number of local race events during the season. Like most things these days, social media plays a big part in how things become popular among youth. I was recently watching some snowboard videos from Youtube creators who frequently post frequent vlogs. There seems to be a small community of them who all know each other and guest on each others’ channels; Ryan Knapton being one. If there was a similar snowboarding Youtuber that could demonstrate and present both freestyle and alpine content, that could help with getting youth exposed to the sport. Even better if they could throw in some freestyle elements as part of their alpine carving riding. The majority of the content would still need to be softboard freestyle riding with the occasional focus on alpine as you don’t want to alienate your core audience. Even if the alpine content is enough to pique interest in a small percentage, that would help. Perhaps some kids may have the attitude of “I want to be like that guy and do it all”. At the very least, it becomes part of their consciousness so that there’s an opportunity for it to be revisited later in life. In addition to riding style and ability, you of course also need someone that has the qualities and charisma to garner a youthful audience. Might be a tall order to fulfill all these requirements! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
softbootsurfer Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 there are Kids Racing, that were not started and Motivated by their Parents? Where? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 Just like in any sport, except street soccer in Europe, Africa and Latin America, basketball in US and Europe, street hockey in Canada... Maybe street cricket in India, I don't have info on that... Honorary mention to scateboards and bicycles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bucky Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 There are a lot of kids racing - about 100% start on soft boots as you can see with several hundred kids in the younger age groups at nationals. Most of these are not started and motivated by their parents. As they progress a smaller percentage move into hard boot racing as they are not competitive if they don’t. Virtually all in the group are self motivated (nog motivated by their parents) and I know of only a very few parents in that group that hard boot. The coaching as they move move up is far beyond what a parent can provide. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 28, 2020 Author Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 2 hours ago, Gabe T said: If they started racing 20 years ago and were still riding alpine, then they would no longer be kids today. : ) Where are they now ? In addition to riding style and ability, you of course also need someone that has the qualities and charisma to garner a youthful audience. Might be a tall order to fulfill all these requirements! I think it would be excellent if we had Gabe represent us all as an ambassador of the sport and tour around demonstrating his massive ability to make a board fly. Perhaps a type of competition at various resorts a Catch me if you can challenge ! Lets pressure Bruce to sponsor him to attend MCC next year ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jack M Posted March 28, 2020 Report Share Posted March 28, 2020 4 hours ago, bucky said: There are a lot of kids racing - about 100% start on soft boots as you can see with several hundred kids in the younger age groups at nationals. Most of these are not started and motivated by their parents. As they progress a smaller percentage move into hard boot racing as they are not competitive if they don’t. Virtually all in the group are self motivated (nog motivated by their parents) and I know of only a very few parents in that group that hard boot. The coaching as they move move up is far beyond what a parent can provide. Agreed. In the US, this happens in USASA. Some kids get into it as cross training for BX, and then take a liking to it. Other kids just want to compete. In USASA, there is greater participation in gates than halfpipe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TVR Posted March 29, 2020 Report Share Posted March 29, 2020 Although USASA Nationals was cancelled, the largest group to go through it was this year and was the Breakers group. (12 - 13) The 7 and below group, which used to be like the 50 plus in size, a group of 10s, was also this year the size of the Groms and almost the size of the next group.... So this tells me something. In 2 years, FIS will be very competitive for the US and who knows, the US might have some representation in gates again. This also tells me, with the unprecedented 7 and under size, something is happening. Will it continue or grow? Who knows, as this is like planting a tree in your yard. But I see the interest, and it is real. Back to the other things to notice about the setup of the USASA kids was this. Most all the kids doing gates were on hard boots. Some had plates and some were Allflex. The kids doing BX were also on some top notch hardware. When they trained the runs before the races, they two were practicing pumping... and carving..... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Callaway140 Posted April 3, 2020 Popular Post Report Share Posted April 3, 2020 Great topic, great discussion. I have 2 kids that hardboot, I am very fortunate. Here is my secret: Teach passion first, passion will always triumph over ability. Once they have passion for something, the rest comes easy. Let them race if they want to, support them if they decide to free carve, teach them until you run out of talent, then support. Think outside the box and do things your own way, be creative to get where you want. The opportunities are out there if you have the passion to find them. It doesn't take a go fund me account to grow passion in this sport. Both my kids race. They've done Nastar, Highschool and USASA racing. While I support alpine racing 100%, I have reservations on the structure and focus. While racing of all types is huge in my household, it has also been very damaging. Both my kids have walked away from other types of racing due to their successes. When being number one becomes more important then enjoying the ride, your days are numbered. You can't win forever and all to often when the winning ends so does the participation. Keeping things fun, light and creative keeps that flame lit. Please take a moment to check out my 13yo first attempt at a gopro video of carving, see if you can see the passion 11 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FTA2R Posted April 10, 2020 Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 Never mind our equipment, there seems to be a lot of old school thinking here. 1. (re) set your expectations. Most of us are OLD enough to know that managing expectations is often a key ingredient for success for many things in life. The probability of our niche sport going mainstream is extremely low. Accept it already! 2. Some of these "methods" mentioned are almost comical and scream "uncool." Forget handing out the old BOL cards, giving your number, esp. to kids. It can come off as creepy and it automatically signals "I'm old and not cool." Previous commenter hit the nail on the head: "They need to see cool young people on social media carving before they will have enough desire to make the leap. They need a role model....an influencer." Bingo. Though I'm personally not a big SM person, it can be very, very effective if you know what you're doing / how to use it. I'll assume no one here is even remotely close to being an "influencer" on social media....if an influencer / celeb tried it and used documented it on whatever app, then yeah, it's safe to say there's a much higher chance that there will be a lot of inquiries about it - and even then it's not a guarantee. As many of you said, people will quickly see the high barriers to entry to be a participant in our niche sport. 3. Sustained social media campaign led by people who know what they're doing. Any volunteers? 4. As someone else mentioned, kids don't want to endlessly debate the merits of one position over another and all the other technicalities. Alpine, as it currently is, isn't conducive to being "cool" with youth, for reasons above plus the current demographic makeup. Let's just be at peace with it. And let's not think that our anectodal evidence (a few outliers here and there, your kids) are anything other than that. Riding well can't hurt for new recruits. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted April 10, 2020 Author Report Share Posted April 10, 2020 I'm throwing this out there without giving D Redman a heads up How about MCC free to a kid with adult. Just not sure about how much to serve kids at the Brew Pub for social event ? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted April 12, 2020 Report Share Posted April 12, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 3:22 PM, FTA2R said: 2. They need a role model....an influencer." Bingo. Though I'm personally not a big SM person, it can be very, very effective if you know what you're doing / how to use it. Great idea. I'm pretty sure this girl has some available time since she's no longer leading the crew team at USC. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shred Gruumer Posted April 13, 2020 Report Share Posted April 13, 2020 On 4/10/2020 at 5:22 PM, FTA2R said: Alpine, as it currently is, isn't conducive to being "cool" with youth Interesting, not so at my place of ride, most are blown away and think its Way Cool.... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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