Is "relaxing" carving possible?

[pow4ever]

Nice Bob!  That sums it nicely.  It's a journey not a destination.  Fortune cookie saying does not make one carve better otherwise I will be golden

"by doing everything "right"; while being relaxed".  -- edited

Another thing is to stoke the flame/passion for longevity.  It's suppose to be fun/exciting.  Don't missed the forest for the tree.
I was getting burned out by focus so much on the "technical aspect" of it and not having fun:  cart pulling the horse in a manner of speaking.
-- gotta get first chair
-- gotta get x amount of vertical feet
-- must carve all the things
-- blaming equipment:  only if i got my "enter gear" here
I still think it's part of the steps/misteps toward carving nirvana FWIW.

The aforementioned still important but shifting priority/mentality just a tiny bit toward "fun" then everything tend to fall into place.
Of course I am speaking for myself.  Your milage may vary.
 

[Corey]

4 hours ago, pow4ever said:

Another thing is to stoke the flame/passion for longevity.  It's suppose to be fun/exciting.  Don't missed the forest for the tree.
I was getting burned out by focus so much on the "technical aspect" of it and not having fun:  cart pulling the horse in a manner of speaking.

This applies very much to me.  I got too focused on other things rather than the true goal.  I simplified as much as I could and regained the love of riding.  No GoPro, no counting runs, no worries about being the first one or last one there, etc. 

It's somewhat refreshing to see others that show up without a care in the world, with un-maintained/improper gear, etc., etc., and they still have fun.  I hate being that unprepared, but they're comfortable with dealing with whatever comes up, so more power to them.  We all pick where we sit on that spectrum.  

I went riding yesterday after dealing with knee issues for the past 3 weeks - mostly to see if I'm going to Montana or not.  It was very hard to get into a relaxed state when I was spending so much of my attention on my knees.  Which brings another great book, "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code.  He talks about spending your attention 'budget' wisely, and how once you get the basics down they take less of your attention away.  Once I got confidence that my knees weren't going to explode, I had a fun day!  

[Chouinard]

12 minutes ago, Corey said:

 Which brings another great book, "A Twist of the Wrist" by Keith Code. 

Cut it out Corey...one book at a time. I'm still reading the Tennis book!

The Tennis book was very timely. Having struggled thru the analytical stage in excess, the Tennis book taught me top stop the brain chatter which I replaced with a single mantra "Feel the edge". I just let my body do whatever it needs to do to "Feel the edge" and it is a quiet and dare I say relaxed carving experience.

 

[Corey]

Cool!  I need to go back and read both of these books again as a refresher.  

[dredman]

I have said this before and will continue to say it... Chew gum, listen to music.  Disengages the brain and things seem to work better.

As Adults we have a hard time learning... I think the reason for that is we have forgotten how to "Play"... When we played as kids and playing,  there were not mistakes or even rules,  and we just learned as we went, having fun the whole time... fall down, get up and go on again, laughing the whole time with your pals.  "Playing" disengages the ego and makes the struggle of learning much less challenging.  

So be kind to yourself and go out and "Play!"

 @johnasmo says "Shut up and Ride"  That works too.  

See you all at the Montucky Clear CUT!  Lets Play!

[pow4ever]

13 minutes ago, dredman said:

So be kind to yourself and go out and "Play!"

Thank you Dave!  Right on!  Check the ego at the door and have fun.  So much this.  "Be Excellent to each other".

Funny thing on being adult and play.  I did a few tough mudder and that's exactly how I feel.   It's not competitive; just go out to play and have fun.
Ted talk on the subject:
https://www.ted.com/talks/stuart_brown_says_play_is_more_than_fun_it_s_vital?language=en

 

Corey:  Glad to hear your knee is getting better and the winter reading list 
Thank you for sharing and the continue feedback.  "If video games have taught me anything, it's that if you encounter enemies then you're going the right way."
To see that I sometime shared the similar struggle tell me that I am moving in the right direction.

power4ever <-- This guy just master chew gum and walking at the same time recently 

[Kneel]

I'll tell you what is NOT relaxing. Rode Stratton on Thursday and Friday in the polar vortex with my 18 and 16 yo sons. It wasn't the crushing wind chill or Stratton only having the bottom half of the mountain open till 1.  On the contrary, the day and conditions were spectacular and we had the mountain mostly to ourselves.  It's my 18yo's third year in hard boots and the 16's third year on a board. Man...they make it look so effortless and fluid at speed while I looked frenetic just trying to keep pace with them.  They must have gotten it from somewhere, right?  I've been their only coach.  That knowledge and confidence must be in me somewhere that I can tap into.  Don't get me wrong, I love watching them and witnessing the the shear joy they get out of it.  And that's probably part of MY problem.  There's still a component of work involved with my riding that I need shed from this process to move forward.  That was the gift I've received this weekend fwiw...   

[Kneel]

18 minutes ago, dredman said:

See you all at the Montucky Clear CUT!  Lets Play!

Never thought I'd admit to looking forward to a 6:30am flight out of Newark, but Sunday can't get here fast enough.

[pow4ever]

Kneel/Nil  -- Nice!  I chuckle.  Apple don't fall to far too far from the tree.  As many have stated; I too suffer from over thinking/over complicating.  Which is weird for me since my brain is fairly empty...
for me it's also fear:  It keep us safe from getting hurt but it also hinder me from progressing.   Young'n tend to have less fear/consideration.
If I don't make this carve; I is got bills to paid lol.  Better bail than commit...  Slowly building up that trust/confidence (taking the stair up); when I do crash it's like taking the elevator down any progress made have been wipe out...

[1xsculler]

I'm a little embarrassed to admit it, as I don't even like wine or alcohol, but on occasion I will consume 187ml of wine before I grab my board and head for my first run or will down it on my first ride up the chair or after a few runs IF I feel I might benefit from a little inhibition reduction or mental fortification to get pissed off at myself and let it hang out a little farther.  The minor loss of coordination doesn't seem to be a problem, i.e. I never fall down (maybe I should if I want to get better but at 75 I want to remain upright) and the attitude adjustment can be most helpful.  DO NOT JUDGE ME!

My quads are always toast after two hours.

[Neil Gendzwill]

What happens if you drink 188 ml, complete disaster?

[1xsculler]

21 hours ago, Neil Gendzwill said:

What happens if you drink 188 ml, complete disaster?

For those few who don't know, those little bottles you buy in a four pack or you get on the airplane are all 187ml. (about one modest restaurant pour or 1/4 of a 750 ml bottle, all regulated by US laws I'm sure) although I refill them at home and probably get 188 or maybe even 189 ml and I notice no difference. Just sayn'.

More than you wanted to know (you probably already knew this) and useless info.

Anybidy who would respond to the 187 ml comment must have toooo much spare time on their hands and that would be me as I wait here on Maui to return to my Mt on February 15th and to try out a new Coiler special. The wait is killing me!

[Beckmann AG]

9 hours ago, Kneel said:

Man...they make it look so effortless and fluid at speed while I looked frenetic just trying to keep pace with them.  They must have gotten it from somewhere, right?  I've been their only coach.  That knowledge and confidence must be in me somewhere that I can tap into.  Don't get me wrong, I love watching them and witnessing the the shear joy they get out of it.  And that's probably part of MY problem.  There's still a component of work involved with my riding that I need shed from this process to move forward.

Up to a point, children are busy writing their own software, exploring 'yes/no' without regard for what might be considered 'right' or 'wrong'. Adults, on the other hand, are generally busy running the programs handed to them, meanwhile focused on whether or not they are executing the task they've been given, rather than the task at hand.

This is why it's important to understand the difference between 'teaching' and the 'facilitation of learning'.

[Beckmann AG]

On 1/30/2019 at 1:16 AM, SunSurfer said:

I used to race middle distance track (800 & 1500m). When I'm "hard charging" I mean that I'm going at race pace in terms of quads muscle effort, not a pace that can be sustained for 30-60 minutes on end (training pace).  I don't have any issues with my breathing rhythm at that level of effort, having regularly exerted myself at that level for the last 50+ years. I also train for my snowboarding,  a recent bike workout involved 1400m of hill climbing at average 1: 10 gradients. 

Hopeful doesn't cut it. Riders wanting to ride well will deliberately develop strength and stamina in order to maintain accuracy and duration of performance.

Probably should have asked for your definition of 'hard charging' prior to typing a response.

Assumed you meant a high energy context requiring accuracy and timing.

 

Interesting how previous athletic endeavor informs future apprehension.

In a past life I was a reasonably competitive oarsman.

Rowing, like XC skiing, cycling, alpine skiing and snowboarding, (and possibly table tennis), is cyclical in nature, which means you have distinct/variable time spans of ‘power off’.

Unless one is doing an all out (and calculated) sprint, one need not go anaerobic to deliver high output for an extended period of time.

Running, on the other hand, has no distinct glide phase, so while ‘good form’ is important to performance, you’re not going to see the same gains as you would in other sports.

Rowing is simple in concept, but intricate in execution. Timing/application is paramount. You can be a strong as an ox, but if you’re only smart like tractor, you’ll pound the water to a froth and go nowhere.

So there’s a vast difference between merely looking like you’re rowing, and effective propulsion.

The same can be said of alpine snowboarding.

On 1/30/2019 at 11:52 AM, pow4ever said:

Type of trail I would like to conquer eventually while being "relax" and less "violent".

 

RE: Kohei/steeps

Notice he’s not desperately trying to nail his board to the snow, instead working the slope like a cat batting a dangle toy.

He seems to appreciate that he is not the dominant power at work, and willingly accepts the occasional slap and toss from the mountain.

Also notice that he’s more extended than flexed during the higher load parts of his turns.

 

So,

Go chuck yourself (into a foam pit) and get used to not having your feet on the ground. Dislocation from the normal can be unsettling, but often proves useful.

[Beckmann AG]

On 1/30/2019 at 1:08 AM, Neil Gendzwill said:

Nope it’s anaerobic for everybody. I doubt even WC racers could do it continuously for more than a few minutes. 

Nope. It's not.

If you're frequently gasping and loading up on the lactic acid, then your board is riding you.

[Neil Gendzwill]

8 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

Nope. It's not.

If you're frequently gasping and loading up on the lactic acid, then your board is riding you.

If you are in good shape you can handle that load for the length of the run or the course. Nobody could  do it steady-state, say linking turns for an hour (assuming you had a long enough run). You are simply using more oxygen than you can take in. If you can do it steady-state you are not charging hard. 

[pow4ever]

@1xsculler  -- Yes sir .  some call it Firewater some call it Talent Juice   I know a few ripper that heavily utilize "pocket plate".  Where you can fold/roll and smoke it.  Seems to do wonder.  Just not for me lol.  I enjoyed the moment of clarity/single focus of the flow state too much to dull it.  Take the good with the bad lol.

[pow4ever]

10 hours ago, Beckmann AG said:

RE: Kohei/steeps

Notice he’s not desperately trying to nail his board to the snow, instead working the slope like a cat batting a dangle toy.

He seems to appreciate that he is not the dominant power at work, and willingly accepts the occasional slap and toss from the mountain.

Also notice that he’s more extended than flexed during the higher load parts of his turns.

So,Go chuck yourself (into a foam pit) and get used to not having your feet on the ground. Dislocation from the normal can be unsettling, but often proves useful.

 

I love the part when he get the bottom and raise both hand!  I do the same when I feel "I conquer a trail" that's been kicking my butt.
"willingly accepts the occasional slap and toss from the mountain."  <-- this might be the crux of the matter.  That's the major reason I started this thread.  On those steep trails it just seems the experience is very "intense/violent".  I frigging love it but just get destroy physically... Another interesting observation and perfect timing:  I seems to be getting more and more airborne during transition.  It's very unsettling as I don't know how to carve air lol... foam pit sounded like a good idea.

[Corey]

The Kohei video is really interesting - the tracks he leaves tell a different story from his fairly calm demeanor.  He's comfortable with a chattering board that's not carving cleanly, a deep confidence that it's all going to be ok because he's experienced it all before. 

I don't care for the camera tilt to make it appear steeper than it is.  Trees usually grow vertically.  

A clean-carving board is my goal as a recreational rider.  If it's chattering like that, I back off to bring it back into a carve.  But I don't have a cash prize waiting after the finish line either.    Maybe more time intentionally spent in that environment would increase my confidence?  Probably.  

[pow4ever]

Stop raising the bar lol.  clean carve + steep + relax/effortless.  This will take me a life time to master.  Guess that's why I love it.

[Gabe T]

When carving, my objective is to increase the edge angle as much as speed and snow conditions will allow.   This gets me low to the snow, maximize deflection of the board and gets me turning as tight as the board will allow.  Rhythmical turns with efficient movements while letting the board do the work is when I'm most relaxed.  (I saw similar comments on a ski video about carving and thought it perfectly summed up carving for me)  For me, this usually means that very firm/fast snow works the best.  Even (smooth) icy conditions can work so long as I have a board I can trust to do the job.      

When snow gets too soft/slow, maxing out edge angles in a relaxed manner becomes more challenging.  Heel sides are particularly tough as the board tends to dig deeper, losing speed and throwing off rhythm.  I could just ease up on the edge angles, but that takes away some of the fun for me.

I recently watched a video of a skier commenting on some technical ski competitions in Japan he had participated for the past few years.  

https://youtu.be/Sns79kl28iE

One thing he pointed out was because the conditions in Japan are typically soft due to the volume of snow they get, his Japanese competitors were real masters in dealing with adjustments to edge pressure under those conditions. I assume snowboarders in their respective competitions over there would have to deal with the same thing.  So carving in soft snow, although not my favourite can be a skill in itself!   It was interesting to hear his comments about people's criticisms about their style and how people who doubted whether those skiers could perform under different conditions; reminiscent of comments we've seen in the past in our own community.

Btw, there was an alpine snowboarder that commented on his video and he replied that it looked like fun and that he would like to try it some day.   : )  

I'll admit there are probably many times where I could relax more when riding: particularly my upper body/shoulders.   More recently I've been a bit more conscious of this and will remind myself to loosen up my shoulders and arms.   I will sometimes visualize riders I've seen from videos while I'm boarding or skiing to help me get into that frame of mind.  

When I think of "hard charging turns", I don't necessarily equate it with relaxed riding.  I equate it to quick transitions, pushing hard on the board, manufacturing pop; this may not be the most efficient way of riding but it's a lot of fun.  More often than not, this tends to be the way I ride and is likely a product of having to ride on a small hill.   Balls out for a minute ... 4 minutes on the chair to 'Relax'.  : )

Thanks for the post David!  Lots of chuckles from your comments.  : )

 

[Gabe T]

4 hours ago, Corey said:

The Kohei video is really interesting - the tracks he leaves tell a different story from his fairly calm demeanor.  He's comfortable with a chattering board that's not carving cleanly, a deep confidence that it's all going to be ok because he's experienced it all before. 

I don't care for the camera tilt to make it appear steeper than it is.  Trees usually grow vertically.  

A clean-carving board is my goal as a recreational rider.  If it's chattering like that, I back off to bring it back into a carve.  But I don't have a cash prize waiting after the finish line either.    Maybe more time intentionally spent in that environment would increase my confidence?  Probably.  

Not sure I noticed too much camera trickery.   That looked like a seriously steep pitch!   Often times the steepness of a pitch doesn't translate well on video so I can't imagine what it would look like standing at the top of that run in real life.  I'm not even sure you'd be able to see any part of the run from the top until you started over the edge.

Even on wider shots,  you could sense the speed he was carrying down the run.

 

[pow4ever]

5 hours ago, Gabe T said:

Thanks for the post David!  Lots of chuckles from your comments.  : )

Nice!  I am glad it's not just my riding that's make people chuckle/laugh lol.
Thank you for the thoughtful response Gabe!  It will take me some time to digest it.
It's like a glass of fine wine need be to sipped and savored.

[Beckmann AG]

6 hours ago, Gabe T said:

Heel sides are particularly tough as the board tends to dig deeper, losing speed and throwing off rhythm.  I could just ease up on the edge angles, but that takes away some of the fun for me.

For the most part, maintain the bend of the board centered or slightly back of center, rather than front of center. That should allow you to run at a higher edge angle in softer snow without plowing/stalling. Also makes it a little easier to release the brakes when needed.

[Corey]

13 hours ago, Gabe T said:

Not sure I noticed too much camera trickery.   That looked like a seriously steep pitch!   Often times the steepness of a pitch doesn't translate well on video so I can't imagine what it would look like standing at the top of that run in real life.  I'm not even sure you'd be able to see any part of the run from the top until you started over the edge.

Even on wider shots,  you could sense the speed he was carrying down the run.

Agreed; that pitch would get me pretty puckered up! Some day I'd like to charge something that steep with such confidence.

Yeah, not much camera tilt, but it was definitely there in a few shots. Probably an accident.