Apex Gecko setup

[slapos]

Dont want to off top but since the question was asked :

Apex makes top quality boards. That specific sl162 is made for 85 kgs which fits me perfect. Approx 10m of progressive radius. Works well in all conditions. 2 layers of titanal. Highly recommended board. Definitely one of my favs.

Full Race vs Full Carve - construction and shape is the same except for titanal layers. I find full carve little more playful than race, with rebound much easier to get. Performs well in almost all conditions full carve maybe except ice. On icey hard pack titanal is best, but board needs more power input, but if given it gives back a lot more. 

Both great boards though. I really like how SG Full Carve performs with vist.  Here is a short vid:

 

[daveo]

On 8/25/2018 at 7:05 AM, slapos said:

Here is a short vid:

 

Probably the best ending in a video I've ever seen.

[boardguru]

Thank you Mr.Deep/ Kipp,

I enjoyed that very informative instructional video! I will make sure that when mounting the Gecko Plates that I have a copious amount of Cold Refreshing Beverages on hand! Or rather in hand.

Looking forward to going back and riding at PowMow after 7 years at the 'basin, hope to meet  you and ride with you up there this year.

Edited August 28, 2018 by boardguru

[Gossamer]

The cold air this morning is getting me excited to make some turns. And I'm looking forward to seeing more hardbooters here, most people here look at me trying to decide what I'm riding. (no it's not a monoski, yes it's a snowboard) I spend most my time at Hidden Lake usually every Sunday and I get some half days in during the week (11:00-4:30) I ride my Coiler Monster retro surf woody topsheet most days, not that there are so many others carving here that I'll get lost in the crowd. See you up there Boardguru!

[boardguru]

We have booked a condo in the ones next to The Columbine, #6 "The Swallowtail Condo" from Dec. 23-28 this year for a vacation on the mountain. I traded a Winterstick Swallowtail and a Roundtail to the owners for 4 days on my 50th birthday. 16 years later I get to see it again. Stop by if you get a chance. But we will be there on the weekends and I'll be there sometimes during the week. I will be dressed pretty LOUD (colorful) most of the time can't miss me.

[bobdea]

On 1/27/2018 at 8:28 AM, big canuck said:

Oh yeah Kessler Speed Plates too

oh and JJA (for the record his version is the best hinged plate system I’ve tried)

That quiver makes me horny

[Duke]

On 8/30/2018 at 6:09 PM, boardguru said:

We have booked a condo in the ones next to The Columbine, #6 "The Swallowtail Condo" from Dec. 23-28 this year for a vacation on the mountain. I traded a Winterstick Swallowtail and a Roundtail to the owners for 4 days on my 50th birthday. 16 years later I get to see it again. Stop by if you get a chance. But we will be there on the weekends and I'll be there sometimes during the week. I will be dressed pretty LOUD (colorful) most of the time can't miss me.

by chance are those the Wintersticks they have mounted on the wall there?

[boardguru]

Yes they are. I traded them to the owners 16 years ago. They were my personal boards from when I worked at Winterstick in the late 70's early 80's.

[bigwavedave]

Recently got some Gecko carves. I've been playing around with different setups. Aysym & symmetrical on two different boards--

A Thirst XC 171 and  a Donek REV 175 (custom with a near radial sidecut)

I think I have found I like the symmetrical setup better, especially on the Thirst (which is already built with asym core and sidecut). On both boards, the asymmetrical setup felt like it changed how the board rode. The symmetrical setup felt closer to how the board normally rides without plates. Either way, they provided the desired muting of uneven terrain.

Apex recommends starting with an asym setup, but a photo on their website shows two SSWSC racers with the symmetrical setup. (looks like Buck Hill NorAm to me). You can bet they tried different setups before racing, and probably with input from coaches.

 

[Chouinard]

Tried symmetric plates on my Superconductor - did not like them at all. I will try them again after the base freezes to ice.

Following Kneel's lead I tried them on my SF. Middle row of holes with a single hole asymmetric offset to clear my stomp pad. - board runs longer with the gecko's. I will probably use the board with and without the plates depending on the base conditions. 

One qualification - I use the softer bumpers at the four end positions.

[lonbordin]

I run asymmetric most of the time. I've run symmetric many times... Many times.

I find running asym makes the board ride a wee bit longer.

That said the difference is slight.  I've even run reverse asymmetric... Meh.

I'd argue that changing the bumpers is more impactful.

They are great... Love Geckos!

[bigwavedave]

 

13 hours ago, Chouinard said:

Tried symmetric plates on my Superconductor - did not like them at all. I will try them again after the base freezes to ice.

Following Kneel's lead I tried them on my SF. Middle row of holes with a single hole asymmetric offset to clear my stomp pad. - board runs longer with the gecko's. I will probably use the board with and without the plates depending on the base conditions. 

One qualification - I use the softer bumpers at the four end positions.

I also tried them on the SF, asym with soft bumpers on the ends, and I didn't like how stiff the board felt. Made turns longer, one dimensional, and harder to tighten up my turns. I like the SF so much more without them.

The same asym setup on the longer XC felt like it had less impact on my ability to manipulate and flex the board. Still made it ride a bit longer.  

I used the outer set of holes putting the bumpers close to the edge of my board. Why did you use the middle set of holes?

12 hours ago, lonbordin said:

I run asymmetric most of the time. I've run symmetric many times... Many times.

I find running asym makes the board ride a wee bit longer.

That said the difference is slight.  I've even run reverse asymmetric... Meh.

I'd argue that changing the bumpers is more impactful.

They are great... Love Geckos!

Dave, aren't you using the Free Ride Geckos? I'll bet they're more flexy since they're designed for use with softboots.

...tried soft bumpers all around, both sym & asym. Decided I missed some of the response of the red (hard) bumpers under foot, so tried red bumpers under only the 4 center fingers (yeah, the middle finger) with symmetrical setup. Felt pretty good.

I think the Gecko's effect on flex is more apparent on a shorter board. I suppose the asym setup rides longer because the overall footprint is elongated.

I really like how my boards ride and feel on smooth groom without plates, but I plan to keep one board setup with Geckos for when the going gets rough. My sore knee seems pretty happy with the Gecko ride.

[lonbordin]

15 hours ago, bigwavedave said:

 

I also tried them on the SF, asym with soft bumpers on the ends, and I didn't like how stiff the board felt. Made turns longer, one dimensional, and harder to tighten up my turns. I like the SF so much more without them.

The same asym setup on the longer XC felt like it had less impact on my ability to manipulate and flex the board. Still made it ride a bit longer.  

I used the outer set of holes putting the bumpers close to the edge of my board. Why did you use the middle set of holes?

Dave, aren't you using the Free Ride Geckos? I'll bet they're more flexy since they're designed for use with softboots.

...tried soft bumpers all around, both sym & asym. Decided I missed some of the response of the red (hard) bumpers under foot, so tried red bumpers under only the 4 center fingers (yeah, the middle finger) with symmetrical setup. Felt pretty good.

I think the Gecko's effect on flex is more apparent on a shorter board. I suppose the asym setup rides longer because the overall footprint is elongated.

I really like how my boards ride and feel on smooth groom without plates, but I plan to keep one board setup with Geckos for when the going gets rough. My sore knee seems pretty happy with the Gecko ride.

No I ride the carves always in the inner most holes.

I should've mentioned that how the Geckos fit under the bindings can make a difference.

Sometimes you can end up with a half on half off of the fingers setup with F2s... Not optimal

If I rode only on perfect Spirit groom I'd likely go with all reds but since I ride in whatever the conditions of the day area I tend to go with orange all around or red under the ends of the bindings and orange in the rest.

Right now I've been just riding that new to me, Donek 179 FC 24cm wide 10-13 SCR with Secret construction with all orange, symmetrical placement, and F2s.  Slow, fast, rough or smooth a completely confidence inspiring solution.  Sean's sidecuts like to run!

That would be my only knock on the Geckos... They can move you into warp speed when one should be dialing it back a notch... Too smooth for my own good, LOL!

IMPORTANT NOTE (PSA): Check the tightness of the riser bolts as they will loosen over time.

 

[bigwavedave]

On 12/20/2019 at 4:31 PM, lonbordin said:

 

IMPORTANT NOTE (PSA): Check the tightness of the riser bolts as they will loosen over time.

 

Also check the bumper screws! I discovered a bumper and screw missing when I got home from Buck. A few of the other screws were backing out too. Locktite on all screws now. Had to go to the hardware store to find a replacement screw.

Maybe I should apply threadlock to those riser bolts too.

[Topboost]

10 minutes ago, bigwavedave said:

Also check the bumper screws! I discovered a bumper and screw missing when I got home from Buck. A few of the other screws were backing out too. Locktite on all screws now. Had to go to the hardware store to find a replacement screw.

Maybe I should apply threadlock to those riser bolts too.

Yes.   I lost a  couple of bumpers last season & now I always double check them.   Apex was great & hooked me up with a couple of extras when I ordered another pair of Geckos.   Loctite on everything!  

[bigwavedave]

I removed the Geckos from the Thirst XC. Although a very smooth ride, it really changed how the board flexed for me and took away some of the fun of the dynamic Thirst ride. I suspect it has something to do with the mystery asym, layered, cambered core already built into Thirsts.

So, I mounted them on my 179 Coiler Revelation today with Sidewinders on a recently acquired BP binding base kit. The difference in stack height with this plate/binding combination is hardly noticeable compared to normal Sidewinders.

I think the smaller foot print of the BP base (compared to F2's) interferes less with the Gecko's ability to flex with the board. I felt only the slightest difference in how the board flexed and handled. They essentially disappeared under my feet. But I also didn't feel the rough ice I was riding on.

Still set-up symmetrically, but with a mix of soft & hard bumpers. Hard, on the fingers under each toe & heel, and soft everywhere else. 

 

 

[Kneel]

20 hours ago, bigwavedave said:

I removed the Geckos from the Thirst XC. Although a very smooth ride, it really changed how the board flexed for me and took away some of the fun of the dynamic Thirst ride. I suspect it has something to do with the mystery asym, layered, cambered core already built into Thirsts.

So, I mounted them on my 179 Coiler Revelation today with Sidewinders on a recently acquired BP binding base kit. The difference in stack height with this plate/binding combination is hardly noticeable compared to normal Sidewinders.

I think the smaller foot print of the BP base (compared to F2's) interferes less with the Gecko's ability to flex with the board. I felt only the slightest difference in how the board flexed and handled. They essentially disappeared under my feet. But I also didn't feel the rough ice I was riding on.

Still set-up symmetrically, but with a mix of soft & hard bumpers. Hard, on the fingers under each toe & heel, and soft everywhere else. 

 

 

 

You just answered the question I asked myself this past week about height of the standard TD disks vs the BP disks.  Do they have a beveled edge or sharp?  I've had my first pair of geckos fail(and replaced under warranty) due to the F2 baseplate edge flexing into contact with the edge of one of the gecko fingers.  Once the carbon gets compromised, failure is a matter of time.  I have pictures somewhere. But i would be concerned about that before i bought the second board kit and tried them with the geckos.

[Kneel]

NVM...they have elastomers!

[bigwavedave]

7 hours ago, Kneel said:

NVM...they have elastomers!

Thin elastomers, designed for use with a boiler plate which doesn't flex under the binding. Still, I think the smaller footprint of the BP mounts will allow the Geckos to flex better then F2's. The ends of the sidewinders, using 6° & 3° cants, are close to touching the plates with only about 2mm clearance.

Lost another bumper & screw today (thought I treated them all with threadlock), plus broke a bail on a old pair of sidewinder prototypes. Didn't notice til I reached the bottom, and have no idea how far I rode without it.

[lonbordin]

@bigwavedave Glad you escaped that predicament!  

Your post made me look back in my notes... I did a LOT of testing last season of different setups and styles.

I did not test TD3s with BPPs on Geckos. [Slaps forehead]

TD3s with BPP are .8 lbs heavier than my F2s but they give me true 6/6 lift and ~2cm lower stack height.

I've already put them on the Donek for the next outing... Hoping my next outing has less issues than yours did! Scary stuff!

[Randy Kight]

Happy New Year everyone.  Hope all you guys are doing well.  I've not been active on here since last spring until just recent and trying to catch up with all the latest.  Although we're not having a great season (70 some degrees today), I'm interested in picking back up on a few things where I had left off last spring, this topic being one.  I'm interested in giving these a shot, as I've always got crappy conditions to deal with.  If me asking the following question is against the rules in some form or fashion, my apologies...but what are some recommendations on where to purchase?  

I thought @Jack M was starting a review of plates in general as of last season, but I cannot recall for sure.  I know @daveo has a couple of reviews out there...Not looking to get in over my head...no racing, just some added comfort and performance if possible.

Randy    

[Jack M]

8 hours ago, Randy Kight said:

I thought @Jack M was starting a review of plates in general as of last season

Yes, I was.  I still want to write that, and soon.  However I kind of took the wind out of my own sails by discussing the review so much here in the forum as it was happening.  Then the abysmal lack of communication from Apex really discouraged me.  Seems like they are going out of business.  The guy simply does not answer emails until you plunk your credit card down and actually order something off their website.  Just bewildering.

As for where to buy Geckos, well...

https://www.apexsnowboard.com/apex-kessler-gecko-plates.html

[bigwavedave]

Placed an order with Apex a few weeks ago and received my Geckos 2-3 days later. When I didn't get a tracking # I emailed and got a response right away. Turned out they had sent communications, but they all went into my spam file.

I like the way they work with the smaller footprint of a BP cant kit and sidewinders better than the larger footprint of F2 Titaniums.

The stack height was a bit scary with the standard sidewinder set-up. Using thinner TD2 elastomers would be better.

I found them to moderately stiffen the flex of a board and make it ride longer. The effect was less so on a bigger board. A larger, stronger rider will probably feel less effect on the flex of their board than a lighter rider, since the only adjustment available is to soften the ride with softer durometer bumpers.  I'm 185lbs and recovering from a knee injury, so not very strong, but they allow me to ride without traumatizing my recuperating knee.

I like them a lot. They mute out a lot of the rough stuff and will allow you to ride longer in rough conditions and still have better snow feel than an isolation plate. You forget they are there. They're maybe 50% as effective as an isolation plate if an isolation plate like the Boiler Plate 4mm lite mutes out 90% of rough terrain. There seems to be a bit better edge pressure on ice.

I still like to have a board without them for maximum snow feel when the groom is fine.

 

[Randy Kight]

On 1/13/2020 at 7:59 AM, Jack M said:

Yes, I was.  I still want to write that, and soon.  However I kind of took the wind out of my own sails by discussing the review so much here in the forum as it was happening.  Then the abysmal lack of communication from Apex really discouraged me.  Seems like they are going out of business.  The guy simply does not answer emails until you plunk your credit card down and actually order something off their website.  Just bewildering.

As for where to buy Geckos, well...

https://www.apexsnowboard.com/apex-kessler-gecko-plates.html

Thanks...yes, I tried the obvious...no returned call...so I was wondering if others bought from other sources.  The more I contemplate, I'd prob be more interested in that X plate...

[Jack M]

On 1/16/2020 at 7:05 PM, Randy Kight said:

Thanks...yes, I tried the obvious...no returned call...so I was wondering if others bought from other sources.  The more I contemplate, I'd prob be more interested in that X plate...

That seems to be how they do business. If you place an order on their site they should respond to that. Unnerving, but it seems to work.