Apex Gecko setup

[lowrider]

My opinion is that they  will tweak a board that doesn't perform the way one would that was designed for you . It will  impose on a soft board to make you think it's a little stiffer but  do little for a board that is constructed too stiff for your particular needs. 

[Buell]

I put them on my Kessler SL but never did an actual test to see how they perform. 

I have tested them twice (back to back with and without) on soft boot boards. 

The first test was on a torsionally stiff board and smooth groom. I took them off and never noticed.

The second test was on a torsionally softer (not overly soft) board and quite choppy groom. They made a big difference in smoothing out the ride. I could go faster and I had to absorb less bump. The board was a bit slower edge to edge. When I took them off I promptly crashed (I rarely crash) trying to go just as hard through the bumpy groom. 

I will play with them more next year.

I do not think they impede the board’s flex much, if at all. If you had a section of board the length of the Geckos, you could not bend that by hand either, but it flexes fine on the snow. They clearly dampen the ride and smooth bumps. I expect this is the case even on a board that is properly designed for the rider.  

Edited March 14, 2018 by Buell

[dhamann]

6 minutes ago, Buell said:

I have tested them twice (back to back with and without) on soft boot boards. 

which model Buell? stealth, free, cross? which bumpers? red (hard) or orange (medium)?

thanks for the feedback on sharing your experience with these on softies.

[Buell]

On the softboot board I was on the Free with orange bumpers. I am 148 pounds.

[lonbordin]

I'm a big fan of my Apex Gecko Free Carves. I typically ride in conditions that most of BOL would've packed it up and gone home or at the minimum reached for the skis.

I'd go so far to say I thrive in these conditions with the Geckos.

I'm 6'5" and ~250#s sans clothing and equipment. I mostly ride a Coiler Nirvana Free Carve Balance (178, 23.5cm) that I asked Bruce to make slightly stiffer with the Geckos and TD3 SWS standards with red e-rings and blue sidewinder pads. I ride Deeluxe 425 Pros (green tongues) with WC Booster straps and BTS with red springs with the exception of one blue spring on top of the rear boot. I ride with the Geckos in an asymmetric layout.

Whew... Now that that's out of the way...

I went to all orange bumpers this season and have enjoyed the dampening.

For me the Geckos are something you set and forget. Maybe you don't need them that day but they're already in position so you ride and don't notice they are there. Then there are those days and your glad to have them on but again you don't really notice they are there.

When you take them off... Then you're like 

They allow you to pedal to your hearts content.  They don't have the muted/locked in feel of an isolation plate.

The Geckos have found their way under the bindings of Olympic boarder cross athletes.  Mark Fawcett has said how he doesn't like riding without them on video.

They also offer the big footed rider a few extra degrees of lower stance angle with the lift.

I'd offer my set to Jack for testing but he'd have to pry them out of my cold dead hands.

 

 

 

[Gossamer]

12 minutes ago, lonbordin said:

offer my set to Jack for testing but he'd have to pry them out of my cold dead hands.

I second this! The Geckos have got me riding more forward than I ever have, turning tighter than I ever have, while stepping on the tail of the board so hard the turns are shooting out my a**! There, I admitted it publicly, there's nothing better than snapping turns off the tail end! Kipp

[David Kirk]

6 hours ago, Jack Michaud said:

Some theoretical thoughts on Geckos... the advertised function is to "spread out" the footprint of the binding.  At first I thought this would create large flat spots in the board, but apparently the flex of the plates and squishiness of the bumpers means this is not the case. I can't feel the flex by hand, but it would make sense that they would be designed to flex. The Geckos prevent the board from folding right at the binding, and make the impact of the binding on the board less abrupt.  This is good.  

However, I believe that offsetting the two halves of each Gecko to somewhat align the plates with your binding angle will introduce a twist in the board as it bends.  I think this defeats the purpose. Thoughts?

I wondered how the Geckos would affect the shape of the flex curve so after I installed them I put the board on some blocks and pushed down hard on the bindings with my knees and looked carefully at the shape of the curve. It's remarkable how smooth and round it is.

I think there are a few reasons for this....first is that the "finger's" that reach fore/aft are fairly long and therefore more flexible than the short fingers that reach laterally. I can put my finger under one of the fore/aft fingers and flex it up off the board just a bit without having to apply much force.

Secondly the top of the board isn't flat in the fore/aft direction while the Geckos are flat. This means that the long end fingers are barely touching the board when the board is in its neutral state. When you screw the binding down onto the plates it puts a preload on the side fingers but because of the curve the top sheet has there is little to no preload on the end fingers. This does a good job of applying the binding loads right on the edge but only loading up the area fore/aft of the plates when the board is being deeply flexed.

It's recommended that you offset the Geckos to match your stance angles and when I first set mine up I did this. I rode the board and something felt odd. It could have been the added elevation of the plates, it could have been the different flex profile, it could have been the odd snow conditions or it could have been the offset plates. Before going out the next day I reset the plates so that there was no offset and they felt much better. I seriously doubt it was the change of offset I was feeling and think it was that I was more used to the added height and that the snow was perfect on day two but they felt great nonetheless. It's hard to say why for sure.

I want to offset them again and give it a try but they are working so well as is it's hard to mess with it.

dave

[AcousticBoarder]

1 hour ago, Mr. Deep said:

I second this! The Geckos have got me riding more forward than I ever have, turning tighter than I ever have, while stepping on the tail of the board so hard the turns are shooting out my a**! There, I admitted it publicly, there's nothing better than snapping turns off the tail end! Kipp

I only have a few days on mine, and there are definitely other factors such as great conditions and some dedicated technique refinement, but I have had similar experiences so far too.

[Jack M]

1 hour ago, lonbordin said:

I ride with the Geckos in an asymmetric layout.

I think you should try them symmetrically!

[Jack M]

1 hour ago, David Kirk said:

It's recommended that you offset the Geckos to match your stance angles and when I first set mine up I did this. I rode the board and something felt odd. It could have been the added elevation of the plates, it could have been the different flex profile, it could have been the odd snow conditions or it could have been the offset plates. Before going out the next day I reset the plates so that there was no offset and they felt much better. I seriously doubt it was the change of offset I was feeling and think it was that I was more used to the added height and that the snow was perfect on day two but they felt great nonetheless. It's hard to say why for sure.

I want to offset them again and give it a try but they are working so well as is it's hard to mess with it.

I think if the goal of the Geckos is to spread out the footprint of the bindings on the board, then one would want that footprint to be symmetrical, not oblong and rotated. I understand the temptation to offset them, but I don't think there's really anything to justify it.

I could see myself using Geckos on my "SL" Kessler 168 or my Coiler Nirvana Energy 174 or maybe my Coiler NSR 185, but I feel like my beer league GS Kessler 180 is stiff and straight enough that they wouldn't have much effect.  I'd be better served with an isolation plate there.

[daveo]

2 hours ago, Jack Michaud said:

I could see myself using Geckos on my "SL" Kessler 168

How do you like the 168? I always viewed mine as a "long" SL board if that makes sense. Just like how the Full Carve 170 is a "short" GS board.

[Jack M]

6 hours ago, daveo said:

How do you like the 168? I always viewed mine as a "long" SL board if that makes sense. Just like how the Full Carve 170 is a "short" GS board.

Love it.  Awesome freecarve board, and I won a USASA slalom on it against some good competition.  The feel of the sidecut is unique.  I'm going to have a 175 version made, with 2m longer sidecut range (10-14m).

[daveo]

36 minutes ago, Jack Michaud said:

Love it.  Awesome freecarve board, and I won a USASA slalom on it against some good competition.  The feel of the sidecut is unique.  I'm going to have a 175 version made, with 2m longer sidecut range (10-14m).

Agree. One of my favourite. Have you tried the SG Full Carve 170? Probably my all time favourite serial board.

[daveo]

On 3/15/2018 at 12:47 PM, Jack Michaud said:

I think you should try them symmetrically!

Just going to necro this thread and say that I found for some reason my heelsides wash out when used asymmetrically but are more controlled when used symmetrically. Probably more attributed to my poor technique than anything. Or maybe because it is introducing some sort of weird asymmetrical flex that my board wasn't designed for. I don't know exactly.

[Jack M]

On 3/15/2018 at 7:36 AM, daveo said:

Agree. One of my favourite. Have you tried the SG Full Carve 170? Probably my all time favourite serial board.

Nope.  I had a SG 163 SL briefly, but it was too similar to my custom Coiler Stubby 170 so I sold the SG.  Sigh... too many boards to try, too little time and money.

1 hour ago, daveo said:

Just going to necro this thread and say that I found for some reason my heelsides wash out when used asymmetrically but are more controlled when used symmetrically. Probably more attributed to my poor technique than anything. Or maybe because it is introducing some sort of weird asymmetrical flex that my board wasn't designed for. I don't know exactly.

Necro?  This is nothing.  Wait till the 2, 3, 10 year old threads get revived, haha.  Although I only tried Geckos briefly, just thinking about it, how could setting them up asymmetrically NOT impose a twisting force on the board?  I mean hey if one prefers them asym then great, but I think they should be tried both ways.  One might get similar results as you did.

[boardguru]

I am going to set the Gecko's that I bought from slapos up symmetrically first. I think Jack has a good point. Time and experimenting will tell.

I didn't have any instructions come with them as to how to set them up. I will contact Apex to see if they will provide some. Looking forward to trying my first set of ISO plates.

[daveo]

2 hours ago, boardguru said:

I am going to set the Gecko's that I bought from slapos up symmetrically first. I think Jack has a good point. Time and experimenting will tell.

I didn't have any instructions come with them as to how to set them up. I will contact Apex to see if they will provide some. Looking forward to trying my first set of ISO plates.

I can send you my instructions if you like...

[slapos]

Boardguru

Apex recommends using asym setup, that matches your bindings.

Just recently I found the instructions at home, however I found them after the plates have already been shipped.

I will make scans and send you via email.

I rode them in asym set up and like that more than symmetric. Felt better especially on heelside

Cheers

[daveo]

I was just about to post mine here, don't want to step on toes, I'll leave that to you.

59 minutes ago, slapos said:

Boardguru

Apex recommends using asym setup, that matches your bindings.

Just recently I found the instructions at home, however I found them after the plates have already been shipped.

I will make scans and send you via email.

I rode them in asym set up and like that more than symmetric. Felt better especially on heelside

Cheers

Interesting! I found the opposite for heelside. I would love to see an analysis of technique to see what it is that is creating this opposite effect. Pity I only really have 1 video of me and that's not with Geckos

[boardguru]

Thanks for the replies. I'll be riding/ testing them at PowMow this year.

[slapos]

6 hours ago, daveo said:

I was just about to post mine here, don't want to step on toes, I'll leave that to you.

Interesting! I found the opposite for heelside. I would love to see an analysis of technique to see what it is that is creating this opposite effect. Pity I only really have 1 video of me and that's not with Geckos

here is bit of riding with Geckos - SG Full Carve 163 with geckos bolted on and Point 951 boots.

mind you this is first three days of riding into the season, on Kitzsteinhorn glacier in Austria, so no full power yet. Technique is also not where I would like it to be.

 

i have tried after riding the geckos, the vist plate and I have to admit that vist plate effect is much better/stronger than geckos.

 

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by slapos

[Corey]

Related, loosely: Coiler made asymmetric core boards for a while.  I think it worked out to the stiffness being more towards the rear on the heelside and towards the front on toeside.  Many loved it, I hated it.  I felt like I was going to fold the nose on heelsides.  Probably a similar effect here with asymmetric Geckos.  

[slapos]

Never had the feeling that it is going to fold the nose. I guess it is slightly different from riding an asym, as you are riding a symmetric board.

Due to Your binding angles you will have different touch points on the edge for front and back side, so it is assymetric naturally.

Gecko is just an extension of that, but spreads your power over more length then the bindings.

Above statement is valid unless you ride 0 degrees on both legs.

I tried geckos on SG Full Carve 163, Apex SL162, SG Full Race 170, both symmetric and asym setup and asym felt better always

Just my opinion.

I am not an expert.

 

Edited August 24, 2018 by slapos

[daveo]

1 hour ago, slapos said:

Never had the feeling that it is going to fold the nose. I guess it is slightly different from riding an asym, as you are riding a symmetric board.

Due to Your binding angles you will have different touch points on the edge for front and back side, so it is assymetric naturally.

Gecko is just an extension of that, but spreads your power over more length then the bindings.

Above statement is valid unless you ride 0 degrees on both legs.

I tried geckos on SG Full Carve 163, Apex SL162, SG Full Race 170, both symmetric and asym setup and asym felt better always

Just my opinion.

I am not an expert.

 

Just an irrelevant question. I have a full carve 170 and I've ridden a full race 170 for a few runs. I've got a small opinion about the difference between these two boards. May I ask, what is your experience/opinion on the differences between the full carve and full race? From your own personal user experience, that is

Also how is that Apex? Nice? Was going to get an Apex BX, ended up with an SG Soul..

[Gossamer]

Posting just for the great ending.