1xsculler Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 It seems pretty obvious that for dialing in cant and lift Catek is at the top of the list. Add a F2 rear stepin and F2 micro-adjustable front bail for your rear foot and it would seem to me you have a pretty sweet binding. Once dialed in you can always transfer your cant/lift to your favorite TD or F2 if you want to. What are the pitfalls of Catek? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Heavy! Parts may be hard to find, and are likely to become more so. Hard to reproduce your settings once you take the bindings off for waxing / grinding, or move them to another board etc. I still have a couple sets of Cateks that I use, but TDs are much less fiddly in my opinion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 With a digital level it should be easy to reproduce the settings on F2s or TDs by custom fabricating some lifts and cants if necessary. It seems TDs have fewer can/lift options with their stock parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 For those that need 6.3 degrees of heel lift with 0.6 degrees of outward cant, there's Catek. (or making your own stuff) Plus, good luck with parts/support now that Catek is gone. For those that are fine with a 6-degree cant disc turned to give a bit of outward cant, there's the TD3. Sometimes, close enough really is close enough. I was surprised that after a year or more of fiddling with a set of Cateks, I ended with about 3 degrees of toe lift and 6 degrees of heel lift, with a slight outward cant. Bomber pays out of their own pockets to run this forum, which is the hub of hardboot/alpine snowboarding in North America. I'll support Bomber. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted April 3, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Point well taken, Cory and I agree. I like to support Jim and Angie when I can. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 Bomber is my preference but i'm still happy with TD1's on plates. TD2' on my bare boards. Some say it's a lot to invest when buying new but the reality is you can readily sell off any gear you don't find compatible to your style so in reality the major investment is turning screws to find what works for you. Catek are ideal for finding your sweet spot and once you have you can divest and move on. Bomber classifieds are my favorite on line shopping store. Burton will never be an option for me since i'll probably pick the wrong colour and destroy any chance of recouping my investment. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rjnakata Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 (edited) IMHO Cateks are great for dialing in cant/lift while on the hill. It's pretty easy to make a few turns of the screws to change things while the bindings are on the board, without changing any heel/toe distance settings. I don's see weight as an issue with OS2's. Downsides: quantifying/replicating those hard earned cant/lift settings requires specialized tools--and it cant be done on the hill. The elastomers are pretty thin (including D3 variant) and you won't get the dampening of TD3's -- they ride rough. Use an OS2 on a metal board without yet more parts (plastic spacers that may/may not match your board width) and risk board damage. 4mm hardware is not a durable as that found on TDs. Moving Cateks from board to board is not so easy. I think OS2's have their place, but they are not the binding of choice. Edited April 3, 2017 by rjnakata Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted April 3, 2017 Report Share Posted April 3, 2017 I love my Cateks but knowing what I know now I would avoid them. The adjustability, while great if you know what you're looking for, will mess you up if you don't. Want to remove the binding for waxing? Move between boards? Good luck putting them back to the same setup. The pros? They tend to run cheaper second hand on the classifieds. The older ones (WC) have a pretty large range of sole length that they can accommodate, and are VERY durable. I've now played around with them enough to know that my next set will be TDs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) Where CATEK's shine is in the ability to give a rider 'that perfect stance', that place where the body and board don't conflict. It's a really hard place to 'go find', and, I don't foresee anyone ever getting there with fixed-shim-angles in a durable, production-based bindings. So, if you're a bit bowlegged, or have one leg a tad shorter than the other (btw, most of us do, but don't know of it), or have a slight asymmetry in our gait (again, most of us do), or need to adjust the fore-aft balance point for a given riding surface or discipline... Yeah, all things a Bomber (or, any other binding) can readily do, but, Repeatability, yeah, luck with that on Cateks. My trick was marking certain parts with fingernail polish. I guess it comes down to how adaptable you are, and/or how performance driven you are. Having ridden a few thousand boards in my day, I can adapt, though the resiliency is, um, less these days. In Performance, I am not worried, but also, not driven to exceed anymore. So, CATEK's in hardshell form won't do much more than bring my Madds 158 alive again. As for lift/cant angles, I used good ol' fashioned Met Tools to decipher the leans (It's called trigonometry, easy math stuff; well, if you're good with numbers?), so, once those were known, just be sure you 'reset' the binders anytime they came off the board (but, mark the parts, too). My big issue was when you had 'skipping' in the rotation settings. This was usually from the set-screws and center bolt NOT being in correct tension, and, thus, the upper could rotate at times, unexpectedly. Attention to detail, correct wrenching, those are the fixes there. Parts, yeah, that one sucks; however, these were very robust bindings. Overall, I think Bomber is the better binding, but it's close overall. When, if, Bomber makes angled shims to offer a few, and correct cant/lift variations, they'll have the better overall product decisively. Edited April 4, 2017 by Eric Brammer aka PSR 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nekdut Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 I can't believe that catek.com is still up and accepting orders. Who's even paying the hosting bill? 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 (edited) 8 hours ago, 1xsculler said: It seems pretty obvious that for dialing in cant and lift Catek is at the top of the list. Add a F2 rear stepin and F2 micro-adjustable front bail for your rear foot and it would seem to me you have a pretty sweet binding. Once dialed in you can always transfer your cant/lift to your favorite TD or F2 if you want to. What are the pitfalls of Catek? - You can't find parts for them. - I found the OS2's to be delicate—dimpled the baseplates numerous times and had issues with binding angles creeping around as a result. What's the point of ultra fine adjustability if everything moves on you after its set up. - Way more adjustable than is actually practical, and repeating settings across several sets of bindings is a pain in the ass. The only justification I could ever see for this is if you were in the worlds stiffest boots ever (and I actually like mine pretty stiff). - Heavy. - Tall minimum stack height. - They tend to damage boards. Some people still swear by them but I don't see the big deal. Edited April 4, 2017 by queequeg Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
michael.a Posted April 4, 2017 Report Share Posted April 4, 2017 Same issue with F2s, the newer versions have an adjustable front bail but whats the point if it loosens up over time, loctite or no loctite. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
realevergreen Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 Would Bomber be able to purchase and sell Catec bindings. It would certainly add some reliability to the bindings. Otherwise pretty much becoming museum pieces. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted April 11, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 (edited) Great idea! I don't believe they damage boards if you use the Catek plastic protector between the binding and your board. I haven't had the F2 front adjuster screw loosen yet. If it does a simple snugging with a POS 3 bit would solve it. Edited April 11, 2017 by 1xsculler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neanderthal Posted April 11, 2017 Report Share Posted April 11, 2017 Always a fan of progress my wish list would include something lighter (Perhaps carbon fiber with good dampening ) and adjustable angles without taking the while thing appart for size 27 upz boots I'm in CO if you need a tester for the next generation :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jburk Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 2 hours ago, neanderthal said: Always a fan of progress my wish list would include something lighter (Perhaps carbon fiber with good dampening ) and adjustable angles without taking the while thing appart for size 27 upz boots Another thing on the wish list would be the ability to properly center a UPZ mp26 with fintec heels, can't get it close enough to the toe edge; the step-in heel receiver's as far forward as it can go, and still not far enough... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 howdy x1sculler what I am about to say might seem harsh, but I am going to say it anyways. I have seen you go thru some mighty fine gear and sell things that would work very well. I don't think it is the gear that doesn't work well for you, I think it is you that needs more time on the hill. how do you get to carnegie hall? practice, practice, practice... carving is a dance, it is total body movement... maybe your not a dancer and should take up something else... don't you ever blame any gear... artistry is in the hands of the creator... cateks are dead move on!... if your not on td's then give it up... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) Even if offense was intended none taken by me. I have messed around with lots of gear and I am well aware that it's not a gear problem but it is a lack of numbers of turns by me problem. That being said I had my best carving day today and I have three remaining this season. I have made a ton of progress and I still have the stoke for next season. We all have different ways of getting there. I must add that when you start snowboarding at age 73 and you feel like a yellow jacket must feel as winter approaches, i. e. you're running out of birthdays, you get in a hurry to get stuff done like learning to lay down nice trenches. If there's any possibility that a piece of equipment just might be holding me back I am going to try something, anything, different right now. I'm not in a position to demo anything in hardbooting or in rowing racing shells so if I want to try new stuff out I must buy it, try it and then sell what doesn't work. Like I said, I had my best carving day yet today and it was partly due to a new board I received yesterday. Much to my pleasant surprise I really did make a significant leap forward because of this board. The conditions happened to be ideal which helped too. Edited April 12, 2017 by 1xsculler 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 Sculler, I will do what I can to find a Coach (you are near Mt. Hood?), and, if not, if you can come to me (or vice-versa), I would be thrilled to get your carves 'settled'. I have many riders who are over 60 years old, and have helped riders as old as 85 yrs. young. Many here do not understand how a body changes with time taking it's toll. That was one of the Many lessons I learned from Gordon Robbins when I worked with him at Okemo, 2 decades ago. So, feel free to PM me here, as to stay in contact. This is doable! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Apex Insider Posted April 12, 2017 Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 On 4/4/2017 at 0:08 AM, nekdut said: I can't believe that catek.com is still up and accepting orders. Who's even paying the hosting bill? And they still claim to be a Kessler dealer even though they haven't sold a Kessler board in 7 years. Kessler has tried and failed to shut them down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1xsculler Posted April 12, 2017 Author Report Share Posted April 12, 2017 (edited) On 4/11/2017 at 11:58 PM, Eric Brammer aka PSR said: Sculler, I will do what I can to find a Coach (you are near Mt. Hood?), and, if not, if you can come to me (or vice-versa), I would be thrilled to get your carves 'settled'. I have many riders who are over 60 years old, and have helped riders as old as 85 yrs. young. Many here do not understand how a body changes with time taking it's toll. That was one of the Many lessons I learned from Gordon Robbins when I worked with him at Okemo, 2 decades ago. So, feel free to PM me here, as to stay in contact. This is doable! I sincerely appreciate your offer but I board at Crystal on Tuesday and Friday mornings only because those are the two days my wife goes to work. Breaking away to Oregon isn't in the cards but I will keep it in mind. Thanks again, Eric. Edited April 18, 2017 by 1xsculler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
*Ace* Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 On 11/04/2017 at 10:32 PM, Jim Callen said: Probably not gonna happen. We'd rather design new bindings than resurrect old designs. Speaking of...does Bomber have something new in the pipeline? TD4??? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
west carven Posted April 16, 2017 Report Share Posted April 16, 2017 howdy jim callen so what about the teeweener 1, 2, 4, 5 degrees cant disks? and the softboot baseplate which will accept any straps and highback? just say'n... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonny Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 The aluminum step-in heel gets eaten up by Fin-Tecs but if that's not an issue the Catek SI is a really great binding. I mark my settings and also measure them with calipers so that I can recreate them easily. I also don't tighten the cant-adjust screws all the way until the king-bolt is cranked down tight. Then I'll put another half turn on all the canting setscrews which maxes out the tightness of the kingbolt and has so far for me eliminated the issue Eric mentioned of the binding angle swinging loose. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dan Posted April 17, 2017 Report Share Posted April 17, 2017 (edited) 12 minutes ago, Jonny said: The aluminum step-in heel gets eaten up by Fin-Tecs but if that's not an issue the Catek SI is a really great binding. I mark my settings and also measure them with calipers so that I can recreate them easily. I also don't tighten the cant-adjust screws all the way until the king-bolt is cranked down tight. Then I'll put another half turn on all the canting setscrews which maxes out the tightness of the kingbolt and has so far for me eliminated the issue Eric mentioned of the binding angle swinging loose. The process you described: crank down the kingpin bolt hard, then give each of the cant adjusting set screws another half turn or so, is the correct procedure according to Catek. If you set all the set screws and then try to crank down the kingpin, you won't get it tight enough and are likely to have the binding angle drift that Eric described. If anyone wants an antique pair of Catek World Cups to experiment with, they are yours for $25 plus shipping. Photos by request. Edited April 17, 2017 by Dan Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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