1xsculler Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I think it's the coolest thing to do on snow but, obviously, not everyone feels that way. Why do you think that is? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xacta168 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Expense is one of the reasons I can think of. Sent from my SM-G900V using Tapatalk 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Snowboarding and other media only show twin tip jibbers. Media obviously advantage those who advertise e.g. Burton. People don't know what they don't know. I have conversed many times with many snowboarders who never jump,only ride on piste and always with the same foot forwards. When I opine that they should probably be on an alpine board they look at me with the same expression as my 14 year old daughter when I tried to explain calculus. She now works in p.r. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Errmm... Expensive, hard to demo, requires some skill, requires correct adjustment of equipment, scary as hell the first time... more? Funny thing is that a lot of people see and are interested in alpine sb. IMHO the reasons above are the ones responsible for the low quantity of HBSBs. That being said, I think more and more people are joining the movement. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rbaldwin Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Yeah, I don't get it. 90% of the people I see on the mountains could have a lot more fun if they could throw in a few carves per run. And slightly longer freeride boards would be all they really need. It does not have to be spendy or inaccessible. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Smilin'Dave Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 1. Higher cost doesn't help. 2. Hardbooting isn't an entry level discipline, 99% start w/softboots and either never evolve past that or quit the sport completely. 3. Burton's lack of support 4. Higher maintenance compared to softbooting. 5. Softboots are more comfortable. I'd rather ride 6 hours in softboots than 3 hours in hardboots. It's the 2nd reason I quit skiing, the boots hurt my feet. (1st reason being snowboarding is sooo much more fun) 6. Evolution of snowboard tech has reduced the 'need' for alpine boards/hardboots, As in, considering snow conditions, 15(?)years ago hardboots made a real difference 50(?)% of the time. Now with present day tech hardboots make a real difference 20(?)% of the time. My point primarily speaks to free/recreational carving, not racing or a disciplined/dedicated approach. I drag my elbows carving in softboots 9 out of 10 days out. For myself, and I believe most others, that's enough satisfaction that I struggle to actively pursue hardbooting in recent years. At the same time, I would never have evolved my riding to where it is w/o having hardbooted for almost a decade. I love snowboarding and (try to) appreciate EVERY discipline of it. I believe we all need to support each other (hardboots, softboots, jibbers, carvers). United we grow. Divided we struggle. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nigelc Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Another point is the advent of very good ski equipment. Some hardbooters were crossover skiers. Now they just ski 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlueB Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I think it's the coolest thing to do on snow but, obviously, not everyone feels that way. Why do you think that is? First lets qualify what exactly the "carving community" actually meant... This Bomber community, community of alpine/hardboot riders, community of people who carve on snowboard, irrespective of the gear used? I'd say, whichever way you put it, it's slowly growing... Reasons for lack of popularity... I'd say primarily lack of media presence, then lack of instruction or will to be instructed, then general lack of awareness that gear can be optimized for desired task/outcome. And no, it doesn't have to be as expensive as most here believe. Almost every snowboard out there can carve. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 In Italy we are working hard on this. One big problem here is that we have a lot of lonely harbooter that loosed passion and interest because they can't find easly stuff and they are tired of carving alone. We printed business card and when we meet a lonely carver we stop him and ask to come with us, to join our forum. This took back a lot of people to hardboots. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jacopodotti Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 The money problem is a real problem only with new stuff and if you don't know the market. In europe you can get an entry level or advanced level board from Goltes or OES for 350€, a pair of proflex freecarve for €60, all new. Used good boots are available from 50€ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AcousticBoarder Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Agree with other posts, but I would also add that people have different styles, not everyone is interested in carving. Some just want to straight line down, others are more interested in the jumps/rails, and others only like to go on powder days. People all have fun in different ways. Personally, I am happy where we are. We are a small, specialized part of snowboarding. Big enough to have a community and have multiple manufacturers and choices for equipment, but small enough that you have that "small town" community feel to it. I completely agree that we need to be sure we are spreading awareness and inviting people into the community, but we do not need to convert every snowboarder to carving. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sic t 2 Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Snowboarding and other media only show twin tip jibbers Geez... your biggest ambassador right now is a twin tip jibber (Ryan). Maybe there is a reason for the media's focus. It's exciting and dynamic to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Neil Gendzwill had an interesting point: imagine if every single person on the hill was on hard boots and carving S-turns. It would be terrifying with lots of close calls and a few high-energy collisions. About 50% of people I talk to say they'd like to try it, and then ask where they can rent one. Err, uh, Bomber. Are the Pureboarding rentals still going at the Eastern hill? The 'Beast' or something like that? A few express enough interest that I offer up a Volkl SL loaner board with SnowPro bindings with their (or loaner) ski boots for a taste. Of the 20+ people that have got this far, none have ever called or emailed to set it up another day. I used to send a follow-up email or text, but don't bother any more. Initial buy-in is restricted to those with enough disposable income to buy something to try it or those that are very passionate and will research and save up for it. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Here's a rash generalization. Most people are out of shape. Carving looks cool but they are smart enough to realize there is probably a lot of muscle pain getting to the level ( Cool factor) they would want to be seen riding. Skiing time is their free time and don't want to commit to the work required to achieve success when they can already competently get down the hill on skis. Alpine boarders and skwaler's aren't role models their just a weird fringe that don't bite when you talk to them. Unlike Corey I keep trying to convert people so far in three years I have had one person try my Skwal. Maybe that's a huge success. In my many years of riding skis, boards and skwals I had never even seen a person even ride a skwal. Saw a monoboarder many years ago at Tremblant riding up the Cabriolet. He was my hero. One guy in thousands doing his own thing that's why I like it. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Eric Brammer aka PSR Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Well, on top of the rental/demo issue, is who's going to teach the technique? When we had 4-5 hardboot willing/able Instructors and Demoes nearby at Stratton, the demand wasn't all that great, but at least that resort had a 'Posse' of riders. Stratton itself didn't really take notice for, oh a decade or so (and when they did, it was shortly after my departure; somehow Jack-from-Maine got credit, yet I was the one there for 9 seasons?!) in any of it's advertising. As it is, I think there's only one or two Instructors there that would even put hardshells back on, and probably not to teach from. I don't know of any Race Coaches using plates there now... So, Inclusion, cost, awareness, equipment, coaching, and venue all issues that preclude Freecarving from being accessible to the general snowboard populace. The ECES, however, has kept the flame alive over the years. Once it quits being a presence [not saying that it will], the East Coast will likely be without a rallying point for Carvers. Events like this are really about the only time new riders get to see what and who all is out there. If some promotion isn't considered by the industry, we could see an end to carving as we know it within 6-8 years. The up-start Bomber Ski [not this, well established Binding company, but dudes from NY.] company may hasten that greatly if they want to continue using 'bomber' as a marketed [and they may want it monopolized] name, as they've got deep pockets... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ursle Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Less then 10% of skiers carve, meaning 90% of skiers don't understand what is required to carve a ski, the 10% of skiers that do understand what it means to bend a ski and release it, accelerating, slightly, have to want to do that on a snowboard, not many do, it's a LOT more work, but...it's all about the eye candy, getting your eyes close to the ground at speed is addicting, few are capable of it, and honestly, a bunch of "A" types don't take instruction well, speaking of which, what are the Nastar handicaps of the two ~instructors~ in this discussion, little things matter. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JRAZZ Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Neil Gendzwill had an interesting point: imagine if every single person on the hill was on hard boots and carving S-turns. It would be terrifying with lots of close calls and a few high-energy collisions. About 50% of people I talk to say they'd like to try it, and then ask where they can rent one. Err, uh, Bomber. Are the Pureboarding rentals still going at the Eastern hill? The 'Beast' or something like that? A few express enough interest that I offer up a Volkl SL loaner board with SnowPro bindings with their (or loaner) ski boots for a taste. Of the 20+ people that have got this far, none have ever called or emailed to set it up another day. I used to send a follow-up email or text, but don't bother any more. Initial buy-in is restricted to those with enough disposable income to buy something to try it or those that are very passionate and will research and save up for it. That's one of the issues I found. It really needs commitment. If I was given a demo board and boots and directed to the mountain with minimal instruction I would have taken one run and be done! I've only started to find a bit of control on the end of the second day. Buying equipment made me commit and that is all the difference for me. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tugboater Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I'm also seeing a lot of softbooters Carving on their regular boards. Our local hill had all the snowboard instructors riding and they were all trying to carve. It was pretty cool to see. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boostertwo Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Plenty of riders carve on their snowboards. Most do it on softies. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
reichouse Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 People are only using 3% of their brain 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lafcadio Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Are the Pureboarding rentals still going at the Eastern hill? The 'Beast' or something like that? Unfortunately when Mark Bennett (aka dingbat) left Berkshire East and moved away the Pure Boarding rentals stopped as there was nobody left to take those over. That said, Joerg is looking for another mountain to take them. I've tried to drum up interest at Crotched Mountain in NH but have been mostly unsuccessful. If anyone on the East Coast has ideas about this and would like to see Pure Boarding equipment at their local hill and have the means to make it work, please let's talk and send me PM. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lordmetroland Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 Reproductive rates are lowest among older, Caucasian North Americans/Western Europeans. Sounds like our core demographic. The call to action is clear! 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
queequeg Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 I rather like that we are few. It would probably be healthier for the sport if there were a few more of us, (just speaking in terms of economics). But I like that what we do is different. As to why we are so small: the main reason is most people just go to the mountain to be outside and have a little fun in the snow. They don't need it to be super exciting, challenging etc ... Anything that complicates that is unappealing to many people and detracts from the joy of it. A highly technical discipline, with fidgety gear, prerequisite yet difficult-to-attain knowledge and skills is simply not what they're after. When they see it do they admire it and say they'd like to try? Sure, but not really. That's fine with me :) 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lowrider Posted March 5, 2016 Report Share Posted March 5, 2016 (edited) Perhaps too many small fingered people like The Donald ? oops! Edited March 5, 2016 by lowrider Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Corey Posted March 6, 2016 Report Share Posted March 6, 2016 I said earlier that I'd given up promoting the sport very aggressively. Today, I had a bunch of very interested people. One is very excited to try my demo board, to the point that I'm going to his place to set up the board/bindings in a week or two. Two others are thinking about it. They must have seen Ryan Knapton's video. ;) The primary guy is an excellent Masters ski racer (keep in mind - Manitoba ;) ) that wants to try snowboarding. He tried a rental soft board and really didn't like it. Here's hoping this one pans out! Keep making turns under the lift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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