Seeking Winter Vehicle Advice

[queequeg]

I am probably going to buy a car to make trips to VT, and other small local mountains more convenient and inexpensive next year. I live in New York City, where driving a car to get around town is morbidly stupid, so this car will be getting used once a week or so in the winter to get to the mountains, and probably only a few times a month otherwise.

So I figure my baseline criteria are:

CHEAP - if somebody steals it, I want to be able to shrug my shoulders since I don't plan on insuring it for theft. Under 4k.

RELIABLE - I don't want to have to worry about it breaking down. I don't mind doing a little maintenance myself, but I basically want to be able to trust it. I'll be doing a thorough checkup of the engine/transmission/brakes/suspension/tires etc before I buy.

WINTER HANDLING - errr ... it's gotta go in the snow.

ROOM FOR GEAR - gotta fit boards and gear for two to three people.

NOT A BEHEMOTH - I like being able to park.

So I was thinking:

an early 2000 - 2003 Subaru Forrester or Legacy, or a Jeep Cherokee. I looked around and these seem to be easy to find in my price range. Any other makes/models I should look for?

[slopestar]

Simple. Diesel or gas 4matic mercedes e class

[kieran]

tdi audi quattro avant.

[Mike T]

I second your Scooby-Doo.

[Futahaguro]

I've been browsing also but me personally, I stay way away from things not from Japan. I've had a few VW's, Fords, etc. and they always seem to have problems. You can go to TrueDelta and they have some repair comparisons. Just make sure to take any car to your favorite mechanic before you buy it and get it checked out.

Honda CRV - Honda reliability, AWD, and 5 speed. I stay away from slushboxes, err, automatics.

Toyota RAV4 AWD.

I have been looking at Foresters also for the exact reason you are.

A classic Toyota truck 4WD of some sort. If you don't transport many people it will be fine and get one with a topper. Just don't leave valuables in there unless the topper has no windows and a good lock.

Just some ideas for $.02.

[queequeg]

tdi audi quattro avant.

Simple. Diesel or gas 4matic mercedes e class

No way. I want something that is very common and easy to find parts for/cheap to repair.

I stay away from slushboxes, err, automatics.

A classic Toyota truck 4WD of some sort. If you don't transport many people it will be fine and get one with a topper. Just don't leave valuables in there unless the topper has no windows and a good lock.

I've been pondering the automatic vs manual thing. I prefer driving a manual, just because — but if I want people to share drive time with me I think an automatic may be the way to go since not everyone can drive a manual. Seems to me that manuals are less expensive to maintain (though I'm not sure why ... I may be wrong about that). I also think that driving a manual makes you a safer driver, but that claim may be a bit dubious.

A pickup is an interesting idea. Comfort is something that I want to keep in mind, since this car will be mostly used for 4+ hour voyages and the pickups I have been in are not the most comfortable. Overall: I think I'm gonna stay away from them: harder to park, less comfortable on the drive up. Should be able to fit three plus gear in a four door with a fold down seat in the rear, provided nobody packs the kitchen sink.

I second your Scooby-Doo.

Errr is this bend-ese for Subaru? :-P

[Mike T]

Errr is this bend-ese for Subaru? :-P

Bingo

[piusthedrcarve]

Subaru Outback wagon with Yakima/Thule on top.

[bobdea]

cherokees allegedly go through trannies like subarus go through clutches which is often.

this os according to the car talk guys.......

what I do know is they get low reliability ratings and they eat fuel like crazy.

subaru outbacks are damn fine in snow, no idea about a forester.

if you can find a VW wagon in diesel I'd go with that. parts wise they are easy to find everything except salvaged parts of the rear.

the only thing I don't like about our diesel jetta is that we could not find wagon..... thus far it's been pretty reliable and cheap to maintain. certain VW parts are pricey new but salvaged they run the same as if you were repairing anything domestic or japanese.

between the mileage (we get almost 40 MPG!) and the life expectancy of the diesel engines they are worth it if you are a person who maintains your cars well.

when I was looking for VW diesels I saw couple with 300K on them, speaks volumes about durability.

the only cars that seem to be better at pulling really high mileage are the mercedes, also in diesel.

plus with a diesel you can make your own fuel...... that's a fun hobby and in the long run can save quite a bit. in the last 10,000 miles we've spent like $150 on fuel. which in a cherokee would be three fill ups.

otherwise, subaru or honda. for the subarus maybe a aftermarket clutch is the way to go.

[queequeg]

Forgot to mention the Legacy/Outback on that list too. I figured that the Forrester is the same thing but just a bit awkward looking and with more room, and figure that I can probably use the room. Otherwise, a legacy/Outback would be just fine as long as it's a wagon.

Diesel is a good idea, I should maybe consider a VW diesel wagon. I've had a VW in the past.

I've never had to replace a clutch - how much does that generally cost for the subaru if it becomes an issue?

I guess the Jeep is out. They drive kind of rough anyhow.

[shawndoggy]

Forgot to mention the Legacy/Outback on that list too. I figured that the Forrester is the same thing but just a bit awkward looking and with more room, and figure that I can probably use the room. Otherwise, a legacy/Outback would be just fine as long as it's a wagon.

Diesel is a good idea, I should maybe consider a VW diesel wagon. I've had a VW in the past.

I've never had to replace a clutch - how much does that generally cost for the subaru if it becomes an issue?

I guess the Jeep is out. They drive kind of rough anyhow.

forester or crv should be on the short list, along with a legacy wagon. The legacy GT of that vintage is actually pretty sweet and came in a wagon / manual (or auto). The Forester is actually smaller than the legacy for useable space (smaller rear cargo area, but taller).

If it were me, I'd go with a 5 speed crv if you can find one. Its the biggest of all of the offerings (comfort on long drive) and still would get decent mileage.

[bobdea]

Forgot to mention the Legacy/Outback on that list too. I figured that the Forrester is the same thing but just a bit awkward looking and with more room, and figure that I can probably use the room. Otherwise, a legacy/Outback would be just fine as long as it's a wagon.

Diesel is a good idea, I should maybe consider a VW diesel wagon. I've had a VW in the past.

I've never had to replace a clutch - how much does that generally cost for the subaru if it becomes an issue?

I guess the Jeep is out. They drive kind of rough anyhow.

IDK, in my experience with most cars it's a $250 to 700 job depending on what you put in there..... the part themselves run from just over $100 to $500. 500 being fancy racey stuff. here's a link to parts for a 2000 legacy clutch.

http://www.autopartswarehouse.com/details/QQSubaruQQLegacyQQSachsQQClutch_KitQQ19901999QQS2KF73801.html

I've been charged three or so hours labor for a clutch both times I've dealt with it.

[queequeg]

forester or crv should be on the short list, along with a legacy wagon. The legacy GT of that vintage is actually pretty sweet and came in a wagon / manual (or auto). The Forester is actually smaller than the legacy for useable space (smaller rear cargo area, but taller).

If it were me, I'd go with a 5 speed crv if you can find one. Its the biggest of all of the offerings (comfort on long drive) and still would get decent mileage.

I'll make note of the Legacy GT. Otherwise: does the CRV do AWD? Enough people have mentioned it that it seems like it might be worth looking into. Is it on a par with a Subaru for performance on snow?

[Jack M]

Subaru Forrester

What are you a lesbian? Get an Impreza instead. ;)

[wingnuts514]

What are you a lesbian? Get an Impreza instead. ;)

lol don't stop there, get a WRX STi and you'll get first chair every weekend!

[Guest]

I have a 2000 outback. In the snow it pretty much obliterates anything, just have to be careful if we get so much that it's going into the grill, but that rarely happens. I don't even use a roof rack because the cargo area has so much room. If you're going with 3-4 people you can put the one back seat down and have room for everything.

It's treated me well, she's at 125,000 miles now.

I tell people I bought it from a lesbian couple.

[dingbat]

Jose,

Performance on snow is all about the tires. I drove a light, rear wheel drive pickup for years that did just fine in any snow it saw so long as I had good snow tires on. Obviously I'm not suggesting you go this route, but a front wheel drive sedan or wagon with good snow tires will out perform an all wheel drive vehicle with all seasons. Heck, my '90 Toyota Corolla with Hakkapelitta 10s did better than our '07 Forrester with budget studded snows at everything but standing starts. Point is, whatever you get, get the right tires on it.

[wingnuts514]

Jose,

Performance on snow is all about the tires. I drove a light, rear wheel drive pickup for years that did just fine in any snow it saw so long as I had good snow tires on. Obviously I'm not suggesting you go this route, but a front wheel drive sedan or wagon with good snow tires will out perform an all wheel drive vehicle with all seasons. Heck, my '90 Toyota Corolla with Hakkapelitta 10s did better than our '07 Forrester with budget studded snows at everything but standing starts. Point is, whatever you get, get the right tires on it.

this brings up another good point, studs or studless? opinions please....

[boarderboy]

We're just now "replacing" a '99 Honda CR-V automatic at 190,000 mi. Great car. Very few problems - all routine. I think most you'll find, esp in northeast and mountain west will be AWD, though 2WD is available.

Honda Element a more utilitarian CR-V. Both can give you hiway mileage in the mid '20's.

If you can find a Ridgeline (the CR-V "truck") in your price range, I'd buy it in a "New York Minute." Should haul 5 people and gear very comfortably. Not the best mpg, though.

Good luck!

BB

[queequeg]

What are you a lesbian? Get an Impreza instead. ;)

Was it the pants???

Jose,

Performance on snow is all about the tires. I drove a light, rear wheel drive pickup for years that did just fine in any snow it saw so long as I had good snow tires on. Obviously I'm not suggesting you go this route, but a front wheel drive sedan or wagon with good snow tires will out perform an all wheel drive vehicle with all seasons. Heck, my '90 Toyota Corolla with Hakkapelitta 10s did better than our '07 Forrester with budget studded snows at everything but standing starts. Point is, whatever you get, get the right tires on it.

Thanks Mark! The other thought I'm having is : buy a f'n big ass 250 econoline extended van, pimp it up over the summer with nice bunks, a propane heater, wifi and a flat screen in the back, sleep in the parking lot and never miss first chair. I'm balking at that because:

They are a ****ing pain to drive.

As fun as it would be to design/build up the interior space, putting that much work into a throwaway vechicle would pain me when it died.

That and going to the bathroom in the middle of the night would suuuucccckkkk.

[skategoat]

Jeep Cherokee with 4.0l inline six.

Torquey, simple and ultra reliable. Any mechanic can fix it and parts for it are available at your neighbourhood Napa.

You'll have to look 2001 and earlier for the true XJ model.

[xxguitarist]

Subies are always a solid choice.

I've only owned front wheel drive, and always put out the money for good snow tires. It's seen me drive past spun out 4x4s plenty of times.

Blizzak or x-ice. Don't go for the higher performance ones, they're nice on dry roads, but compromise on snow performance.

Right now I'm driving a mazdaspeed3. Holds gear nicely. The regular hatch with ~120 less HP is probably still a little above your preferred budget, but it's got to be getting affordable enough. There was also a protege hatch.

I probably wouldn't go for a jeep, for the longer drives. I just prefer to be lower, gas mileage aside.

Toyota matrix is also an option. Pontiac vibe is the same car, if the American badge doesn't bother you :)

Other ideas, v70, jetta wagon, a4/6 avant/ allroad

[skategoat]

Guys, his budget is $4k and you're throwing names like Audi and M-B at him?

Having owned about a zillion cars in my life, I would not buy anything German for $4,000. The repair cost to vehicle value ratio will eat you up. Look at $1,000 plus for rotors and pads. Anything electrical - you are screwed. The worst car to buy is an aging VW-Audi product. You'll be reaching into your wallet every time you turn around.

The problem with Japanese used cars is the price. They hold their value a little too well.

Take a look a Jeep Cherokee. Do not confuse it with the V8 Grand Cherokee. The V8 Grand Cherokee is a P.O.S. The 4.0l Cherokee is a tank.

Considering that you'll be driving the car infrequently, you want simple, stupid technology. A cast iron, inline 6 designed in the 80s fits the bill. AMC/Chrysler made 5 million of the things.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AMC_Straight_6_engine#4.0

[eajracing]

for reference... i've got a '95 outback with 250k km's on it still going that seems it will never die and is great in the snow. I dont think i've locked it in about three years. No one seems to want the tape deck either. They can be had for about $2500-3500 CAD up here in Toronto.

and this past summer my wife told to me that a lovely pair of lesbians on her hockey team explained to her why they have a forrester: because it looks like a giant box.

(feel free to moderate if deemed necessary)

edit: - if you follow skategoats lead on the cherokee - the block heater option is worth pursuing. And - if you can get one - a buddy of mine swears by his toyota helix deisel. rhd is so hot right now.

[Mig]

I've been driving manual Subarus wagons for the past 18 years. First one was a Loyale 4WD, and now I'm driving my second Legacy AWD. I have bought them all used and they have all lasted me a long time. I will NEVER go back to a front or rear wheel drive for winter driving.

The Legacy wagon does have a roomier (longer) cargo area than the Forrester. I chose the Legacy over the Outback because parts like tires and brakes are cheaper around here. You can travel 3 persons comfortably with gear and several boards up to 185cm.

I love Subarus...