Seeking Winter Vehicle Advice

[jp1]

Jose, I'm with Mark. Whatever you get, IF you are serious about Winter Driving, make sure you have (4) Winter Tires ! I'm a Blizzak :) guy myself.

[Futahaguro]

Jose, I'm with Mark. Whatever you get, IF you are serious about Winter Driving, make sure you have Winter Tires ! I'm a Blizzak :) guy myself.

Another for this. I had a Protege5 which got 30 MPG combined driving and had some good space but 4 people and stuff would never work without a top box. It had performance tires on it from the factory and they SUCKED in the winter. I slapped on some Blizzaks and WOW. Unless I have an AWD car I will always have snow tires and even with an AWD car it will allow you to have that much better traction when it is needed.

I've never owned a Cherokee but I see what he is saying about the Cherokee and not the G Cherokee. Nice boxy design to maximize the space and very common.

[Big D]

I drove a subaru wagon 4wd and that thing was bullet proof. I then taught 4 friends to drive it as it was a stick and it still hung in there. Careful with the Jeep line in the early 2000's as reliability could be sketchy. It all can come down to the maintenance dedication by the owner, good friend has 93 Explorer with......450,000 miles on it! She practices religious maintenance on it. Good luck.

D

[queequeg]

Wow - thanks for all the helpful responses. I guess a cherokee is back on the table as an option, but I am skeptical because my recollection is that they are somewhat unpleasant to drive.

I will definitely be putting Blizzaks on whatever I buy - those things are friggin amazing.

I am skeptical about putting a box on top of it, mostly because I live in NYC, and the car will remain parked for long stretches of time and will most likely get screwed aroud with by unsavory characters ... so the less crap there is on it to mess with, the better. That's probably a plus for the Cherokee ... I think people are more likely to leave one of those alone.

[Pat Donnelly]

An old cowboy sat down at the bar and ordered a drink. As he sat sipping his drink, a young woman sat down next to him. She turned to the cowboy and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"

He replied, "Well, I've spent my whole life, breaking colts, working cows, going to rodeos, fixing fences, pulling calves, bailing hay, doctoring calves, cleaning my barn, fixing flats, working on tractors, and feeding my dogs, so I guess I am a cowboy."

She said, "I'm a lesbian. I spend my whole day thinking about women. As soon as I get up in the morning, I think about women. When I shower, I think about women. When I watch TV, I think about women. I even think about women when I eat. It seems that everything makes me think of women."

The two sat sipping in silence.

A little while later, a man sat down on the other side of the old cowboy and asked, "Are you a real cowboy?"

He replied, "I always thought I was, but I just found out I'm a lesbian."

[acitarella]

There's a reason Subaru is the State Car of VT. :) Great in snow, highly reliable, and tons of room for gear. It seems like one out of every 3 cars with a VT plate on it is a Subaru.

I have an 1997 Impreza hatchback with 180k+ miles on it that is still running strong. The car was great for road trips and fits our gear without a problem. Has not seen a mechanic in the last two years...other than basic maintenance.

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[Petrol]

Guys, his budget is $4k and you're throwing names like Audi and M-B at him?

Giant Freakin Ditto #1

The problem with Japanese used cars is the price.

Giant Freakin Ditto #2 (how much did y'all pay for those ScoobyDos? I also highly recommend them but finding a good example under $4k???)

Take a look a Jeep Cherokee.... The 4.0l Cherokee is a tank.

Giant Freakin Ditto #3

We had 4 late 90's Cherokees in our company car fleet where I work. All went well over 300,000 mostly trouble free miles. the remaining one now has over 450,000 on the clock.

btw, I also agree with the comments suggesting "Real" snow tires as a good set will take a 2WD car through snow that will stop a all-season tired 4WD in it's tracks

[queequeg]

(how much did y'all pay for those ScoobyDos? I also highly recommend them but finding a good example under $4k???)

That doesn't seem to be a problem from what my research suggests.

Giant Freakin Ditto #3

We had 4 late 90's Cherokees in our company car fleet where I work. All went well over 300,000 mostly trouble free miles. the remaining one now has over 450,000 on the clock.

Yeah, seems like the Cherokees are not a bad bet for a high-mileage used car.

btw, I also agree with the comments suggesting "Real" snow tires as a good set will take a 2WD car through snow that will stop a all-season tired 4WD in it's tracks

Yep. Gonna be doing that.

[Erik J]

+1 on jeep cherokee

A mechanic friend (20+ years exp) told me to stay away from manual trans '93 and older. There are a lot of cherokee's out there in the price range you are looking for in decent shape. They just do not hold their value. The straight 6 motor will outlive all of us. I have personally seen at least 1 dozen with over 300k and still driving. 4wd will get you anywhere you need to be. The things that tend to break on the truck (hatchback, hood latches etc) but it will keep running regardless of what falls off of it. Parts are cheap and very available. Every podunk mechanic can work on one if you are stranded.

It's not the smoothest on highways but tire brand seems to make a big difference on a cherokee. There is something to be said for having a smooth ride from NYC to VT after a long day of riding.

Grand cherokee is junk, mid 90's cherokee's are great imo

btw, I also agree with the comments suggesting "Real" snow tires as a good set will take a 2WD car through snow that will stop a all-season tired 4WD in it's tracks

I very strongly diasgree. I've taken a jeep cherokee w halfway decent tires through open cowfields covered in deep snow. These things are amazing in the snow - if you know how to drive. I have an a6 with new tires that I wouldn't dream of doing that with unless I had all day and a winch.

With that said, roads are obviously different than cowfields. Anything w decent tires will get you pretty much where you are going, but imo 4wd will definitely get you there.

[jp1]

Pat, good one. Guess I am too!

[Neil Gendzwill]

Unless I have an AWD car I will always have snow tires and even with an AWD car it will allow you to have that much better traction when it is needed.

AWD accelerate better on snow but the stopping is the same no matter which wheels are driven. Get winter tires, especially for a vehicle that is to be used for mountain driving. AWD/4WD systems are nice but not necessary - they cost more, are more likely to break down and help suck more gas. Having said that I love my AWD VW in the snow, but it's out of the OP's snack bracket.

[queequeg]

+1 on jeep cherokee

A mechanic friend (20+ years exp) told me to stay away from manual trans '93 and older. There are a lot of cherokee's out there in the price range you are looking for in decent shape. They just do not hold their value. The straight 6 motor will outlive all of us. I have personally seen at least 1 dozen with over 300k and still driving. 4wd will get you anywhere you need to be. The things that tend to break on the truck (hatchback, hood latches etc) but it will keep running regardless of what falls off of it. Parts are cheap and very available. Every podunk mechanic can work on one if you are stranded.

It's not the smoothest on highways but tire brand seems to make a big difference on a cherokee. There is something to be said for having a smooth ride from NYC to VT after a long day of riding.

Grand cherokee is junk, mid 90's cherokee's are great imo

I very strongly diasgree. I've taken a jeep cherokee w halfway decent tires through open cowfields covered in deep snow. These things are amazing in the snow - if you know how to drive. I have an a6 with new tires that I wouldn't dream of doing that with unless I had all day and a winch.

With that said, roads are obviously different than cowfields. Anything w decent tires will get you pretty much where you are going, but imo 4wd will definitely get you there.

If the Cherokee is significantly cheaper than the Forrester, and tends to outlive other cars, that may turn out to be my deciding factor. I like the idea of a vehicle that I can work on myself and it sounds like the cherokee may fit that bill as well. I'll have to see just how rough the ride is and try to figure out if it's tolerable for a four hour drive to VT, that would be the other issue. I wouldn't get a Grand Cherokee. Ugly and I'm not a fan of SUV's (which I would not consider the regular Cherokee to be).

[eajracing]

there's always a vancat as well.... although it might be too expensive.

[queequeg]

there's always a vancat as well.... although it might be too expensive.

I considered that as well, but passing inspection in NYC would be a bitch, and there's the parking thing.

[dingbat]

I very strongly diasgree. I've taken a jeep cherokee w halfway decent tires through open cowfields covered in deep snow. These things are amazing in the snow - if you know how to drive. I have an a6 with new tires that I wouldn't dream of doing that with unless I had all day and a winch.

With that said, roads are obviously different than cowfields. Anything w decent tires will get you pretty much where you are going, but imo 4wd will definitely get you there.

How fast were you driving through the cow field and would you want to keep to that speed from NYC to Stowe and back?

[Erik J]

How fast were you driving through the cow field and would you want to keep to that speed from NYC to Stowe and back?

about 40-50mph in the field once we got past the drifts - it wasn't pretty.

And if the conditions are that bad on a road I would be going slower anyway. Other cars are the biggest danger, not the snow imo.

I used the cowfield as an example to give my personal experience with 4wd in deep snow conditions. I finished with the point below to sum up that I think any car will do with decent tires but that 4wd in my opinion is a sure thing if one is worried about deep snow. I was responding to a statement that 2wd w/ snow tires will go somewhere that a 4wd without good tires can't go.

I don't have a 4wd anymore as it is not necessary around here.

When I lived in CO I got around with a 1977 RWD mercury cougar

with chains just fine. Wolf Creek pass etc, no problem in the winter. It wasn't fast but I made it work.

With that said, roads are obviously different than cowfields. Anything w decent tires will get you pretty much where you are going, but imo 4wd will definitely get you there.

1+1=2

fart

[shawndoggy]

for your intended use (long highway driving, intermittent snow capability), the jeep is too much "truck". The cherokee ride quality sucks. And for passengers, the rear seat room is pathetic. I gather that you enjoy driving a "drivers car." Of course for $4k, there aren't many of those, but even when they were brand new, Cherokees sucked to drive.

SRSLY, the 1st gen CRV and 1st gen rav4 were built to answer the Q you were asking. Car-based, so there's still a modicum of handling. Roomy enough. Not off road capable, but awd when needed. Good fuel economy, good highway ride. (suby legacy based wagons also fit this bill and are fun / pleasant enough to drive).

An old skool cherokee is a penalty box to drive on the highway for extended periods and your passengers will hate you. If you lived in the mountains and needed a commuter, a cherokee might be perfect. But for extended highway travel? UGH.

As for fwd/awd, how does it work on the east coast... do you ever have mandatory chain controls? Out here in the sierras 4wd with all weather tires never has to chain up, but fwd with studs would, even though the fwd car would do as well or better than the 4wd vehicle. So out here 4wd is very much a matter of convenience of getting through when roads are restricted.

[dingbat]

I used the cowfield as an example to give my personal experience with 4wd in deep snow conditions. I finished with the point below to sum up that I think any car will do with decent tires but that 4wd in my opinion is a sure thing if one is worried about deep snow. I was responding to a statement that 2wd w/ snow tires will go somewhere that a 4wd without good tires can't go.

Fair enough, I was thinking taking turns on winding VT highways. Obviously not your point. My bad.

[en93nsx]

queequeg

A Subaru with snow tires is hands down the best winter vehicle for on road driving. I have owned 4 of them and they are great. I would recommend Nokian Hakkapeliita Snow Tires. They are a little more expensive than the Blizzaks or other brands but they are MUCH better tires. I had a set on a 2000 Impreza RS that I sold with 102,000 miles and the tires had at least two seasons of tread left. That car ruled the road in the snow. Do some searches on Nokians and you will see they are the ultimate winter tire.

I currently have a Magnum AWD Hemi with Winterforce tires. I bought the Magnum because I needed to be able to do some light towing. Suffice to say that I really miss my Subaru and will be getting one when the Magnum needs replacing.

[Neil Gendzwill]

A Subaru with snow tires is hands down the best winter vehicle for on road driving.

What's so magic about a Subie? There are quite a few AWD cars that perform just fine.

[ursle]

If your budget is 4grand I'd suggest creating a co-op with four other winter enthusiastic types in the area and getting something dependable.

Or use 4grand over a period of 4 years to rent a vehicle when you need it.

4 wheel drive is nice, you can go much further into the snow drift before stopping...And you give up 10mpg,

Any front wheel drive with studs is going to go anywhere you need and get decent mileage.

A wagon is nice vs a sedan that needs a rooftop.

jeep 10mpg

subaru 20mpg

vw,toyota,honda 30mpg

[softbootsurfer]

Wife has had Subarus since early eighties... Station Wagons and then Forresters after the kids moved on, all have had stick shift and not one has failed at anytime to get her where she was headed... nor has she had any issues other than the clock not working on one years ago.

[en93nsx]

What's so magic about a Subie? There are quite a few AWD cars that perform just fine.

Many of the AWD cars have a system that only drives the rear wheels when there is slipping detected. The Subaru is a full AWD car, the STi even has an adjustable center differential allowing the driver to change the amount of torque between the front and the back.

I may also be just a bit of a Subaru fan

[Neil Gendzwill]

Many of the AWD cars have a system that only drives the rear wheels when there is slipping detected.

My R32 is like that, it has a Haldex controller and is FWD most of the time. It's been unstoppable so far in snow and ice, although I do have some clearance issues as it sits pretty low. But if you must have full-time awd Audi has several models with Torsen differential IIRC.

[en93nsx]

My R32 is like that, it has a Haldex controller and is FWD most of the time. It's been unstoppable so far in snow and ice, although I do have some clearance issues as it sits pretty low. But if you must have full-time awd Audi has several models with Torsen differential IIRC.

I love the R32. My wife has a GTI that will need to be replaced in the next few years. She really has enjoyed her car so I think the new Golf R would be a great replacement.