Bomber secret plates (caution soft-boots content)

[carvingchef]

<o></o>Disclaimer: I still ride hard-boots most of the time and I’m convinced that hard-boots are and always will be superior to soft-boots for carving, however soft-boot carving can be done with the right equipment and conditions, the product you are about to see it’s not meant to compete with or be a replacement for hard-boots but it’s a huge improvement from your typical soft-boot set up<o></o>

Fin, if this thread doesn’t belong here please move it to the appropriate section

<o></o>

It is my pleasure to introduce a possible future Bomber product

you can call this Bomber Secret Plates, Bomber Special Plates or Bomber Soft-boot Plates, my son likes to call them the B. S. Plates but I’m sure Fin will have the right name for them if he decides to make a production run

It’s basically a prototype adapter plate that mounts on the TD2 or TD3 base and allows you to mount your choice of soft boot bindings on top (4 hole pattern only) if you look at the pictures it should be self explanatory, I know there are different risers available from other manufacturers but they are mostly made of plastic or rubber and they don’t give you such a solid connection as the B.S. Plates and they definitely don’t give you the cant and lift adjustability of the TD2 or TD3 bases

Before I keep writing let me just say that this thread is not about soft-boot versus hard-boots so please let’s not turn this thread into an argument, this is about riding soft-boots directly on the board versus riding soft-boot with the B.S. Plates, nobody is trying to say that soft-boot is better and nobody is trying to convert anybody to soft-boots, if you ride hard-boots only keep doing so and if you ride soft-boots only or part-time the B.S. Plate might give you more option for a better ride

These are the ideas behind the B.S. Plates

Adds lift - increased leverage and clearance for booting out

Adds dampening – done with the TD3 E-ring system (I highly suggest using the TD3 base instead of the TD2)

Adds cant and lift option – can still be used with flat discs if desired

Allows for more natural flex of the snowboard (in my honest opinion)

of course it also adds weight and for those of you who absolutely must know the extra weight of one B.S. Plate with TD3 base, 6 degree cant disc and blue E-rings is 755 grams

and with a 3 degree cant disc is 745 grams which means the total extra weight on your snowboard is just above 3 lbs

I wouldn’t suggest using the B.S. plates if you are a jibber or a park rat but if you like to carve in soft-boots this is a major improvement for your ride and you don’t really feel the extra weight if you don't jump and stay on the snow, if you are a BX racer you would have to try them and decide for yourself if they work for you or not, I’m not a racer and I don’t care about jumps so the extra weight doesn’t bother me at all

<o></o>I was riding in Mammoth with my son during the week of Easter and I was having fun testing them and every 2 or 3 days I was emailing fin with a report so instead of writing another review I’m just going to copy and paste the emails I sent to Fin

<o></o>

Tuesday march 30

Hi Fin

i finally got the plates on monday, the shipping got delayed because of bad weather in Colorado, when i opened the box i was as excited as a kid opening Christmas presents, the adapter plates look great but they don't look like prototypes, they look like a professionally finished product,

i didn't have a chance to try them yet, i was in mammoth today in the middle of a storm, we were able to get 4 runs in but not much visibility and the last run we were just trying to get back safely and by the time we got down they shut down the chair and the mountain, tomorrow might be a powder day and by thursday the storm should be over, we are staying till sunday so we have plenty of time to test them, i'll let you know how it goes

Andrea

<o></o>

friday april 2

Fin, you are not getting the adapters back, love them too much already

here is the detailed story

on tuesday they were on my son board with TD3 base Osin 4807 168 cm. and flow 11 bindings, we only took 4 runs in powder and really bad weather conditions, he said he didn't feel much difference but he wasn't complaining either, on the first 2 runs when visibility was okay i saw him riding and he looked good, i was riding my 4807 178 cm. with nidecker PRO 800 and Salomon malamute

on wednesday it was a powder day but we could actually see enough to ride, same set up for both of us and he told me he felt like there was faster and/or better input and the board was more responsive, so far so good, all positive

on thursday it was a blue bird day with lots of groomers, so i started on my scalpel 180 but the snow was still very soft so after a while i switched to my 4807 TD2 base with 0 degree cant discs the adapters, i could definitely feel a stiffer base under my feet and more direct input to the board, without the adapters the day before i could feel the board flex under my feet, with the adapter i felt like i could push it more and it was still rigid under my feet though i'm sure the board was bending (probably even more)

friday, i just came back and i'm still high, perfect groomers, not icy but hard enough to carve hard so i started on my VSR 177 after a while my son was switching board with Neil (nekdut on bol) so i put on my softboot and set up a Donek Razor 170 with TD3 base and the adapters 6 degree cant in the rear mostly heel lift with 10 degree inward cant binding at 35 degree angle, in the front 3 degree cant mostly toe lift with 5 degree inward cant and binding at 45 degree angle, the first few turns i was just taking it easy and try to get a feel for it and get used to it (i got used to it very quick) the ride was very smooth, i think the TD3 elastometer was absorbing the bumps and vibration and the stance felt really comfortable due to the lift and cant, i also think that the board has a more natural flex because the bindings don't sit diagonally directly on the board but they sit on a centered base, anyway, i started pushing the board harder and getting it on the edge and cranking turns and holy $..t it felt so good, by the time i took my second run i was really carving on it linking turns and leaving trenches, i was getting really low and felt really confident, not extreme carving but i can't do that in hardboots either, Neil got to the bottom first and he was watching me and he said that coming down i looked like a hardbooter, my son was on Neil Tinkler and he was following me carving and when we got back on the chair on the way up we couldn't tell which trenches were mine or his but we knew it was us

Fin, I NEVER CARVED THIS WELL IN SOFTBOOTS ON ANY SNOWBOARD EVER, i was riding the same board, boots, bindings and angles (no adapters) at my local hill last month and compared to today i sucked, not to mention that my knees used to hurt on softboots with high angles but because of the cant and lift that problem is gone, i'm very comfortable now

i'm going to ride the razor again tomorrow and try to get some video and then i want to try the adapters on my nidecker proto 167 waist 22.5 probably running 50/45 angles and see how that feels

here is the short story, Fin you have a winner product, this might be to softboots what BTS is for hardboots, i hope you are making a second set for me because it will be hard for me to share this with my son or friends

i will wait till monday but do i have permission to write a review on bol?

sincerely happy

Andrea

<o></o>

Monday april 5

<o></o>

<o></o>

Hi Fin

the pic is from a video clip from saturday on the Donek Razor

my vacation is over and this is the last report

on saturday i went to June mountain and i rode my VSR in the morning and then i switched to the Razor with Bomber special plate, i was riding on gunsmoke (everybody’s favorite run for carving at June) the snow was harder than the day before but the razor and plates did their job, i just had to push harder to hold an edge but i was carving and linking turns and leaving trenches, the toe-side was much easier than the heel-side but nevertheless it was carving and it was fun, my son took some video and he's probably editing as i'm typing, when i was ready to try the adapters on the Nidecker it started snowing and getting foggy and it was almost 3.00 pm so we left

on sunday i think i committed a sin, i put the adapter on the Coiler VSR and rode it with softboot, same exact stance, cant and lift i normally ride but with angles of 50 front 45 rear instead of my normal 57 front 52 rear, it felt a little weird for the first 20 second and then i started having fun, i was doing cross-under on a blue run and it felt almost exactly as being on hardboots, after that i started getting lower and making bigger carves, again the toe-side was much easier than the heel-side but i was carving and having fun, on the heelside i really had to push down my heels to hold an edge and i couldn't get as low as with hardboots but it still worked, the VSR was built for my weight (220 lbs) to be used with hardboots, i think if the same board was a little softer and maybe a little smaller SCR it could be a blast on softboots with the Bomber special plates, i might just have to call Bruce and order a new Coiler, i think by now you are realizing how much i like those plates, the razor wasn't that great for cross-under and it wasn't as fast edge to edge but i'm pretty sure it's because the Razor has a 25.5 waist and my VSR has a 22.0 waist

i wanted to use the VSR because i wanted to see the difference between hardboots and softboots on the same board, definitely more control with hardboots, no question about it but to me the biggest difference was that with hardboots i can just crank the board on the edge quickly and it will hold, on softboots i need to tilt the board more gradually but once i'm on the edge it will hold it, if i try to crank a turn to quick the back tends to slide out but once the edge is engaged it will hold, also if i start to go fast i feel more stable and safe with hardboots, but then again this wasn’t about soft-boots versus hard-boots this was about improving the ride of soft-boots and the Special Plates makes so much difference you have no idea, please make a production run so I can buy one set for myself and one for my son

Fin, there were at least 5 other carvers that saw me riding on softies and the adapters last week and 4 other friends are waiting to see them next sunday so the secret is almost out, let me know if you want me to make it public on BOL or if you are going to start a thread then i can always add to it

thanks again for making them, i'm really having fun on them and you are not getting these back unless you are actually going to make them and sell them so I can buy the final product

Andrea

[piusthedrcarve]

WOW!!!

Is this coming soon?

This could be another reason that I could choose TD over Catek, but not yet ;)

Questions..

• 
  One size fits all? if then, isn't it going to stick out too much for 18 cm width decks?

• Is this plate universal for any softboot bindings?
  

• Can this plate be used on Catek bridge? (I know Catek has FR2 Evo as whole set) - I like flexible lift/cant adjustment of Catek. If I choose hardboard decks (narrow & variable but percise over flex & length), I would like to change lift/cant to optimize riding, especially if I switch back and forth between hardboots & softboots on same deck.
  

[Jack M]

Nice!! Looks like it could be hollowed out and lightened more though...?

[Corey]

Cool, I really like how you can pick your own softboot binding to mount on top. MUCH less work than engineering an entire softboot binding, though it's heavier.

Nice work again Fin!

[svr]

Those look sweet! Would love to try a set with the TD3 cants on my tanker 200. Any chance they are going to be produced Fin?

cheers,

sandy

[carvingchef]

Can this plate be used on Catek bridge? (I know Catek has FR2 Evo as whole set) - I like flexible lift/cant adjustment of Catek. If I choose hardboard decks (narrow & variable but percise over flex & length), I would like to change lift/cant to optimize riding, especially if I switch back and forth between hardboots & softboots on same deck.

these plates as they are now will not fit on a catek base and i honestly don't think Fin should bother making a plate that fits on catek, if anything catek should make their own plates but i also think they would want to sell you the FR2 as a complete set so i don't see a catek plate like that anytime soon

One size fits all? if then, isn't it going to stick out too much for 18 cm width decks?

i don't think this plate was made with 18 cm. deck in mind

Is this plate universal for any softboot bindings?

as long as they have the 4 hole pattern they should fit

Nice!! Looks like it could be hollowed out and lightened more though...?

that's really up to Fin, this is a prototype and he already went trhough the trouble of shaving off some material from the bottom while leaving the top solid, you can see it in the first pic, left shows the top and right shows the bottom, if Fin is going to make a production run we will probably see the final product at the start of next season

[nekdut]

I was riding with carvingchef and his son last week when he was trying these out. They definitely made a big difference in his softboot carving power. I saw these close up and they are the real deal.

Fin definitely has two products there as he could sell just the adapter plate to those of us who already have plenty of TD2/3 bases, or a TD3 2nd board kit + plate to provide new softboot users a far better riser kit than Burton or Palmers could ever come up with. Just hollow out the plate a little more, anodize it a cool color and come up with a witty name, and he's set! :)

[Corey]

i don't think SOFTBOOTS were made with 18 cm. deck in mind

Fixed that for you. ;)

[bobdea]

I was riding with carvingchef and his son last week when he was trying these out. They definitely made a big difference in his softboot carving power. I saw these close up and they are the real deal.

Fin definitely has two products there as he could sell just the adapter plate to those of us who already have plenty of TD2/3 bases, or a TD3 2nd board kit + plate to provide new softboot users a far better riser kit than Burton or Palmers could ever come up with. Just hollow out the plate a little more, anodize it a cool color and come up with a witty name, and he's set! :)

yup, I've had this in mind for awhile, the td2/3 is WAY better interface that any of the softboot risers on the market. weight is a issue but the suck factor of other risers is too.

boy, at this point I'm gonna suggest that a 1.5 degree cant would be awesome for softbooters AND why not just build a complete softboot binding with straps and highback from something else.

[carvingchef]

corey_dyck Quote:

<table width="100%" border="0" cellpadding="4" cellspacing="0"> <tbody><tr> <td style="border: 1px inset ;" class="alt2"> Originally Posted by carvingchef

i don't think SOFTBOOTS were made with 18 cm. deck in mind

</td> </tr> </tbody></table>

Fixed that for you. ;)

well said

[piusthedrcarve]

......... the toe-side was much easier than the heel-side but nevertheless it was carving ............. again the toe-side was much easier than the heel-side but i was carving and having fun, on the heelside i really had to push down my heels to hold an edge.......

If one can wrap around booster straps around binding's highbacks, doesn't it help for heelside turn? just thought.

[heroshmero]

Video of the secret mission (from another thread).

<object width="400" height="225"><param name="allowfullscreen" value="true" /><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always" /><param name="movie" value="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10682870&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" /><embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10682870&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" width="400" height="225"></embed></object><p><a href="

">TOP SECRET: FOR FIN'S EYES ONLY!</a> from <a href="http://vimeo.com/user2265928'>http://vimeo.com/user2265928">J Tallman</a> on <a href="http://vimeo.com">Vimeo</a>.</p>

[Alaskan Rover]

Ahhh....so you see....there IS a light at the end of that tunnel!!

I would also like to try the inverse of that: Hardboots on a freeride board at free-ride angles (15 and 5) for me.

I've got some Scarpa Denalis that I am itching to try out on my present board, and if that plate can be fit a set of TD2 or whatever top-pieces, I think my WIDE board is wide enough to take those Denalis at 15/5 angles. And then switch back to my softies if I have a desire to do some rails that same day. Doesn't look like it would take too long to switch from one set-up to the other with that plate.

Wish those Scarpa's weren't still up in AK, right now.

I am not talking jibbing and park stuff, the scarpas would suck for that, just all around freeriding emulating my present style...30% carve, LOTS of flatboard quick turns, general HUCKING, and quite a bit of backcountry up north.

Anyway, Fin's on the right track....

Markets are ALWAYS a dynamic system.

SCREW repairing sails! The wind is TOO nice...I'm GOING sailing...sailing is the BEST way to procastinate!

[carvingchef]

I would also like to try the inverse of that: Hardboots on a freeride board at free-ride angles (15 and 5) for me.

some people already do and nobody is stopping you from trying, you might even like it, i just hope your board is strong enough for plate bindings and hard-boots

I've got some Scarpa Denalis that I am itching to try out on my present board, and if that plate can be fit a set of TD2 or whatever top-pieces, I think my WIDE board is wide enough to take those Denalis at 15/5 angles. And then switch back to my softies if I have a desire to do some rails that same day. Doesn't look like it would take too long to switch from one set-up to the other with that plate.

the B.S. plates are a modification to use soft-boots on the TD2 or TD3 base, if you want to use your scarpa denali just use them with the TD2 or TD3 standard bindings and when you want to switch to soft-boots you would use the B.S. Plates (assuming Fin is going to make a production run)

[Arclite]

Video of the secret mission (from another thread).

<object height="225" width="400">

<embed src="http://vimeo.com/moogaloop.swf?clip_id=10682870&server=vimeo.com&show_title=1&show_byline=1&show_portrait=0&color=&fullscreen=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always" height="225" width="400"></object>TOP SECRET: FOR FIN'S EYES ONLY! from J Tallman on Vimeo.

You're welcome.

[Loc]

Fin - count me in as a buyer of these plates if you produce them.

[leeho730]

I'll definitely buy a set as well.

Or if this doesn't go into production, then I'm more than willing to buy the prototype...

[Bullwings]

I saw these in person today. They're pretty sweet. I'd definitely be up for a production run of these.

Catek FR2s have way too many screws and moving parts to maintain, which isn't necessarily a problem unless you have the problem of zero customer support... As long as customer support stays in tact, then the FR2 will stay in tact. That said, they're still my top softboot binding for now - and even WHEN the Bomber soft boot adaptor comes out, it'll still just be a riser system, which is great. You can use any softboot binding you want with it, even Catek FR2s for double riser (which I think is a bad idea).

As for hollowing them out to shave weight, if check out the underside of the plate that Andrea showed, you can see the potential points for cutting out and shaving weight.

[carvingchef]

I'll definitely buy a set as well.

Or if this doesn't go into production, then I'm more than willing to buy the prototype...

sorry, the prototype is not for sale, if Fin makes a production run i will buy 1 set for me and 1 for my son and and whoever is riding where i'm riding can try the prototype

next sunday april 18 i will be in Big bear either Bear Mountain or snow summit, anybody who is going to be there is welcome to try them out, i will be in hard-boots armed with a camcorder, Erwin is first in line, anybody else reply to this thread and let me know

http://www.bomberonline.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=30217

the only thing i ask: post a review, Fin would like to know

and the only suggestion: bring the board and bindings you normally ride that way you can do a honest comparison with and without the B.S. Plates, if you don't have a TD2 or TD3 base you can use my TD3 second board kit

i'm planning a couple more weekend trips to Mammoth, when i know the exact dates i will post it and if you are there at the same time you can try them as well

i also think that the more people shows interest in buying a set the more likely Fin will make a production run

[Jon Dahl]

kinda stikes me as spot on. Sold as a set with a second board kit, ready to go under your favorite bindings.

[ktm162]

Ok life is good and if and when i can pay you for a set tell me!!!

Sam, USMC Ret.

[SnowNBeachAddict]

Howdy!

Those look nifty! Can you please let me know the next time you plan to go to Mammoth? I would be VERY interested in trying these out with my soft set up:)

[snowboardworm]

i also think that the more people shows interest in buying a set the more likely Fin will make a production run

put me in line for buying a set if Fin makes a production run

greg

[KingCrimson]

I'm waiting for the first person to stack a TD3 on top of that sucker.

[nekdut]

I'm waiting for the first person to stack a TD3 on top of that sucker.

Huh? The TD3 goes underneath, and that's how carvingchef already had it set up.