Burton Channel

[Neil Gendzwill]

So I got into a discussion with someone about the Burton Channel. My view was that it was a stupid idea, incompatible with non-Burton stuff and likely to break under hard use. Any hard evidence to support my gut feelings? Can you mount a 4X4 binding to it? Would plates destroy a Channel-equipped board?

[tex1230]

haven't ridden it, but looked pretty closely in the shop. cool gimmick, but at 220+ lbs no way in hell will I be getting on one. I can see one hard turn ripping that channel clean out of the board. Maybe ok for sub-150 pounders who don't put any torque into their turns, but no way that system would stand up to plates & hard boots.

[Snowman]

Talked with the Burton rep at Beaver Creek about a week ago about the channel. He reassured me the the failure rate of this new system is nil! I have to somewhat agree though, it doesn't look very substantial. I don't believe that Burton has that many boards in their line up without it. Burton has always led the field in screwey non-standard snowboard/binding mounting systems. Propritary mounting system keeps people that are buying Burton boards to also buy Burton bindings. I have got to believe that other binding manufactures have come up with compatible systems. And yes Neil, I don't think this system would stand up to alpine abuse very well.

Think Snow!

[heroshmero]

I have an old Burton Supermodel that I loved (it's a rock board now) but I, for one, can't imagine buying another Burton board because of the new binding system.

The other day, I did ride for a bit with a freestyler that rode pretty aggressively and he had a board with the new binding system. He said he really liked it. He said it was easy to change the binding setup and that it felt "bomber".

[eajracing]

I rode a set of C60's mounted on a T6 and on a custom X with the system back to back with standard bindings and was impressed with the increased feel and the lack of dead flex spots under the bindings. At 220+lbs I didnt notice any more binding flex on the EST's than i did riding the usual variety. If it didn't mean I had to buy burton everything, i would probably be on a set. Heck - i'm still upset with shimano over bike parts for similar reasons.

They're no vist plate... but it is a step in the right direction.

I do agree with the above comments though - i've ripped bindings clean off boards (old joyride experience) and i couldn't help but wonder as i fiddled with the little threaded washers in the channel. I'm content to let the flock sort out the engineering teething issues on this one. Until it's offered on a prior, neversummer, palmer or any other soft-boot non-burton board its of no use to me.

[inkaholic]

Burton isn't the first to do this channel for binding mounting. Capita and Revelation did it a while ago. I think both may have dropped it due to reliability but not possitive about that.

I love how Burton can resurect old "gimmick" tech and call it new so that people will still buy their stuff. The Burton also does the "scoop nose" which is very similar to the old Morrow spoon nose.

I spoke with a Sales Rep (kid) at a shop and he went on and on at how cool this new stuff is. Each item he brought up I countered with another company who did it many years ago. The kid finally walked away to help a customer who wasn't going to shoot down his "cool boards". I had to laugh a little.

The only plus I see is that you aren't limited in stance width by either 1/2" or 1" increments. Not a big deal though.

Ink

[pebu]

Do not like.

Also, what would having one long insert do to the flexibility of the ride? The construction of the board would have to change in that one section so as to retain a decent flex pattern.

[Corey]

The board stiffness would change abruptly at the ends of the channels. Almost as much as it would near the ends of a Vist plate. ;) I doubt it matters much.

The loads on the channel will be reduced when using the appropriate bindings with the bolts nice and far apart. If I had to use a 4x4 center disk, I'd mount the bolts diagonally opposite in the disk to get them as far apart as possible. Yeah, the angle markers would be messed up but it'll be the lowest possible loading given the size of the disk.

I wouldn't trust plates on these boards. The Burton engineers likely never imagined that kind of a big lever working on their board, trying to pry the channel off of the core.

[lamby]

Snowman - I beleive I read an earlier post by you (on another topic) that mentioned that you sometimes ride a Fish with TD 3s. Is that fish an older model with three hole binding pattern, or are you mounting TD 3s to the channel system. Would someone looking to buy a Fish need to look for an older model if they wanted to mount up a plate binding on it? Thanks

[carvin29]

The leverage, security issue has always bothered me. I would never, ever use a disc mounted binding on it. Interested to hear from more people who've used it.

[John Bell]

Let me tell you, the ICS system has cost Burton one potential customer. I would possibly have bought a Custom X had they not gone to this pointless and possibly unsafe system.

I searched online a while ago for feedback on this, and I recall someone saying something to the effect that after 30 days or so, there's some problem with the interface between the screws and the ICS channel. Some also report "dead spots" under the bindings: http://www.goneboarding.co.uk/Forum/infinite-channel/ThreadID/25794/ShowThread.aspx

But the very idea of depending on two screws seems like asking for trouble. I mean, who needs to adjust their bindings that often? The fact that they made sure that only Burton bindings work for these boards convinces me that this was just their greed talking.

[b0ardski]

literally, when checking these boards out at a local shop the salesdude looked at me askance as I pulled the biggest burton off the rack and was laughing while inspecting the track. It's pretty obvious to me that it's all about saving $$$ on manufacturing costs while incorperating designed obsolescence requiring more frequent replacement of boards.

Expecting 2 little t-nuts to hold plate binder during alpine style riding is well outside of design parameters.

I believe Rossi used a dual track system a few years ago but quickly realized the folly of slotting the core at the mounting points.

[Rob Stevens]

Burton concedes in their own, hilariously-titled, "Good Book" that this interface is less responsive toe-to-heel.

The C60 (now a truly **** binding) shows as an "8" for responsiveness with a 4 hole binding and a "7" with their track system.

As for durability, it probably doesn't matter because Burton's average client can't stress a board anyway.

[boarderboy]

The leverage, security issue has always bothered me. I would never, ever use a disc mounted binding on it. Interested to hear from more people who've used it.

is using disc bindings on a channeled Burton SuperModel this year (?)

What's happening out there, SB?

BB

[philw]

There's an older thread about this when I asked this question before. There are little plastic adaptor things from Burton to let you mount 4 hole bindings on the 2 hole finbox, but they're flimsy. I'm not overweight, but I can ride fast enough and I didn't fancy the engineering of such a set up (Fish -> finbox -> adapter -> F2 bindings -> boots -> me).

Hence I dumped Burton boards when they went this way. I have an old Fish or I ride other manufacturer's boards in powder now. Newer Fish have some other design issues also in any case - rocker fashion problems.

I don't know about warranty rates on the finbox system: at least Burton's warranty is good, unlike some.

I should think this works very well for Burton and their customers. I can't say I've seen a single person actually tweaking those two screws on the hill though - selling something like this on "ease of tweaking" is bollocks.

[dano]

I don't know about warranty rates on the finbox system: at least Burton's warranty is good, unlike some.

I should think this works very well for Burton and their customers. I can't say I've seen a single person actually tweaking those two screws on the hill though - selling something like this on "ease of tweaking" is bollocks.

I looked at this setup and groaned as well.

It must be plenty strong though... Burton does not want recalls/lawsuits/bad press.

Calling it a "finbox" is a little scary, as I have broken many of these on windsurfers...

I think ( for peace of mind) the connection is more like a windsurfing "mast track", ( much beefier than finbox hardware) that holds the mast base to the board deck. I've never seen/heard of a failure at this connection point.

That said I was not going to buy a burton deck anyway...but it would sure be easy to set the bindings back for powder,

[scoiler]

I agree with s.orecchio. Burton gloms on to ideas from other makers and then patents them for their own.

[mnfusion]

Yes you can use non-EST bindings on the new Burton system. You don't have to buy the new bindings to go with the new boards but Burton says you won't get the full benefit of the system with out the new bindings. I have not used the new system yet but as a long time Burton customer and supporter, Burton has lost a buyer in me until they go away from this new system. I do not have a problem with the idea behind the new system. I do have a problem with making products that require specific products to make it work. The ski industry has standardized their ski/boot/binding systems and are better off because of it. Snowboarding needs to do the same and stop trying to re-invent the wheel. There is a good system in place now with 3D and 4D systems. Why fix what is not broken?

[emorris]

Apple made a bad decision to keep it's OS a proprietary system. They spent years clawing their way back. They did develop a niche and a group of loyal supporters, but it took years. I think that Burton will be interesting to watch. They have a large base and are now trying to trade on years of good will as well as significant market share. This looks like a move to try to sustain market share.

[John H]

Which ski industry has a standard interface for skis and bindings? Last time I looked each ski manufacturer had a binding interface that required the use of their own proprietary binding, in most cases. Some skis are still available "flat", most have a track system that uses only their branded binding. Kind of like Burton with their unique mounting systems.

[softbootsurfer]

I have the Channel on a new Supermodel...

...NO PROBLEM

[mnfusion]

I will be the first to admit that I am not up to date on the latest in the ski industry. I sold skis and boards for about 10 years so I based that opinion on my experience during those years. If the ski industry has since switched from 'any binding can be mounted on any ski and used with any boot' then I stand corrected.

[John H]

Ya, it sucks that you now have to use the ski manufacturers in house binding in order to use their skis. It has kept me off of a few brands of skis.

Never been too thrilled with Burtons non standard mounting systems either. I've used their soft boot boards up until now and bitch to the rep every time I have to mount up a 3 hole system. Now that it's a track, well, time to find another board manufacturer. We're not their target market anyway so I'm sure they don't care if we use their stuff or not.

[bobdea]

there's a distinct possibility that these could reduce insert related failures.

everyone who I've talked to who has actually ridden these boards has echoed what softbootsailor has said, there's no noticeable difference in ride quality and if you use the EST bindings there's a lot more adjustibility than other bindings.

LOL, just a FYI these tracks are made of metal right? burton has gone metal!

[ShortcutToMoncton]

Well so far this thread has a bunch of people who've only looked at this system on the internet or in a shop saying "this is ridiculous, it's a gimmick, it looks terrible and will break" and a couple people who've actually ridden the system saying "no problems, rode pretty good actually."

...so yeaaaaaaaaaaah. Sure haven't seen this on Bomber before! Opinions on the internet for the win I guess. :rolleyes:

greg

Disclaimer: Haven't owned a Burton board since a 2001 Jim Rippey and own no Burton products other than some Mission bindings. I haven't ridden the Channel system.