mnfusion

You can look back in this forum to see when the last time I rode hard boots was because I sold my hard boot gear on this website, but I rode that gear for 3 years before I switched back to soft boots. And not just a couple days in those 3 years, but the majority of the time I was riding was in hard boot gear. Not that it really matters because I don't need your 'cred' or approval' to justify ability or riding choice to you or anyone but it sure seems to be a requirement here. Again I ask...why the need for an elitist attitude? What about that attitude makes you feel like a better person? I wonder if part of the reason so many people here have so much expensive gear is because they are riding boards not designed to be ridden the way they are being ridden. Race boards are not designed to be laid out low to the snow. Sure they may be able to do it but a race board is designed to be ridden flat and to track strait when ever possible (and yes, there are many other factors that go in to a race board, I know, but the point is they are not designed to do euro carves). A flat board is what gives a racer his speed, not being on edge and not laying deep carves (which only takes away speed). Watch a racer make a turn in a speed event, they will try to stay as upright as possible and get back to as flat a board as possible. Ride a board designed to be ridden for fun and making big sweeping carves and you may find you don't need a $10,000 quiver of boards. The reality is that this is probably the best site I have ever seen for snowboarding of any kind. The amount and quality of information here is incredible. I am 37 now. I started boarding at 14. People that are my age and boarding are beginning to shy away from park and pipe riding and turning more and more to carving. Their bodies can not take it anymore and responsibility changes a person. As these pioneers of snowboarding age they are going to be looking for gear that accommodates their new style of riding. I don't think it is any coincidence that you are seeing companies like Donek and F2 making a line of boards specific to soft boot carves. They clearly are seeing a market demand or else they would not bother putting in the time and effort to create this product line and I will predict that in the next decade you will see the Burtons and K2s of the world going back to making soft boot carvers for the aging population of boarders that still want to ride. Most snowboarders hate the idea of hard boots and most are not going to switch over to hard boots as they age. That is just reality. The point of this is that you are going to find more and more soft booters finding this site as time goes on due to the points listed above. They are not going away and most are not changing from their soft boot ways. A great site has been built here but with anything sometimes what we envision and what it turns in to are two different things. Two things can destroy a great community web site: 1 - all or nothing views which divide and alienate the community and 2 - a single pissed off individual with a little computer knowledge that SPAMS the hell out of the web site. It would be sad if one of those outcomes befell Bomber because a few individuals were more concerned about elitism and hatred instead welcoming those that discovered the joys of carving and want to grow and know more.

From FIS Rules: http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/ICR04.pdf 606.2 Competition Suits 606.2.1 For Downhill, Giant Slalom and Super-G competitions at the Olympic Winter Games, FIS World Ski Championships, FIS World Cup, FIS Continental Cups and FIS World Junior Ski Championships competition suits must be plombed. 606.2.2 If for any reason a plomb is missing from a suit that has already been controlled, a provisional start may be allowed. 606.2.3 In this case or when a doubt exists concerning subsequent modification of a racing suit or if there is a protest, the following procedure should be followed: Following recognition of one of the above circumstances the racing suit is immediately marked. At the end of the race the TD must confiscate this competition suit and send it to the FIS for control. 606.2.4 Officials present at the competition and appointed for suit controls by the Committee for Competition Equipment, have the right to make reexaminations on site.

Researching a little further: SBX is considered a freestyle event and is governed by such rules. From FIS: "SBX competition suits must be two piece – pants and separate top. Form fitting speed or downhill suites are not permitted. Non protruding body protection and padding is recommended. Protective equipment i.e. back protection must be worn on the body. No straps, fastening devices or other methods can be used to tighten the suit material closer to the body." From FIS Freestyle rule book for Ski Cross (which I assume are the same general rules for SBX) p. 89: http://www.fis-ski.com/data/document/icr-08-freestyle-print-version-with-changes-2009.pdf "4511.4 Ski Suits Ski suits must be two pieces; pants and a separate top. Suits worn in the Alpine events of Downhill (DH), Super-G (SG), Giant Slalom (GS), Slalom (SL), and Speed Skiing are not allowed. Suit base material shall be textile fabrics excluding rubber, plastic, neoprene, leather or vinyl like materials or fabrics. Patches of different material are allowed provided that textile fabrics shall remain, in any event, predominant. Non-protruding body protection and padding is recommended. Protection equipment including back protector or any other padding or body amour must be worn on the body and separate from the ski suit (outer wear). Protection and padding must not be built into the ski suit or attached to the ski suit by a zipper, Velcro or any other means. Fastening devices such as elastic straps, zippers, nylon straps, buttons, snaps, velcro, one or 2 sided tape, or any other methods shall not be used to tighten the suit material closer to the body or prevent the natural fall of the clothing. The gap in the material must be a minimum of 80mm, measured everywhere around the circumference of the, of each leg from the mid thigh to the top of the ski boot and 60 mm everywhere around the elbow and the bicep."

From ISIA Competition Rules: http://www.isiaski.org/download/rules/WM_Reglement_Maribor_en.pdf 4.4. Equipment Wearing a helmet and back protection is required. Wearing racing attire or parts thereof is not permitted. I have been looking for SBX FIA rules but cannot find the ones specific to SBX yet. That above rule obviously does not 'explain' anything, nor is it an FIA rule that I know of but I do find it interesting that it specifically states that 'racing attire is not permitted'.

No Jack, you don't get the point and I doubt you are open enough to get the point. As someone said earlier...I am tired of trying to push around a rope with you.

But Trailertrash that right there is the problem. I wrote my words. I know 'the tone' of my words and I can tell you that the tone you and possibly others took was not 'the tone' intended. All I did was give a little of my snowboarding background to support why I feel like I do and people flipped out and turned my post in to something more than it was...like I knew was going to happen.

Thank you. I did not know you could do that. BlueB - all you had to do was ask. I changed my handle bc there was another boarderboy. No other reason than that. Jack - I rarely jump anymore. No desire to anymore (once you have a mortgage, your priorities really start to change...lol). You know what, I never came on here to hate on hard booters. I have done both and prefer soft over hard. Sorry, I know it is hard to believe, but it is not bc I have some sort of lesser ability (as you infer) it is what I prefer. So why do you (and many others) feel the need to be elitist? There is so much hate on this forum (burton sucks, soft boots suck, if you ride anything else than a $2000 metal set up you suck, if you don't thinks hard boots are the best you suck, etc). This is an amazing resource for ANYONE interested in the carving aspect of the sport...for both hard and soft carvers...so why is it so hard to be open to all carvers and not just the elite few? What I think is really funny is all I really said was that I supported Nate in his comments towards the Canadian boarder and that I think speed suits have their place in Alpine events only. I never once stated that hard boots suck or are inferior or anything of the sort. I did state to go ahead and flame on me because I knew those on here would because I am a 'soft booter' and there is little tolerance on here for anyone who differs from the majority. So you all took my comments out of their intended context, ignored the point of the post, hated on me for riding soft boots, and assumed alot that was never said. That is really sad. On a different note...Holy **** that half pipe was crazy last night. Those kids are doing tricks now strait out of video games. Who ever would have thought tricks would progress this far. I am afraid to see what these guys and girls are gonna be doing in 4 more years!

and I have been on this site since 2005. Sorry I changed my user name this year because someone had a name too close to what I was using. Sorry, I guess that makes me a troll:sleep:

Jack, sorry but lots of assumptions on your part. #1 - I said style, not fashion. Those are two very different things. #2 - I knew how to ride my hard boot set up very well and rocked it. That is very arrogant to assume otherwise just because I choose to stay in soft boots over hard. #3 - I never once said or inferred that hard boots don't have a greater mechanical advantage over soft or that you are better off racing in a hard set up. But as someone who races BX and has used hard boot equipment, I would never want to race Bx in hard boots. The ability to make minute adjustments with a soft set up makes them superior to hard in a Bx course IMO...not to mention the greater control over jumps. #4 I am not here to speak for all of snowboarding as to why they care or don't care about Bx. My opinion is that most resorts are not willing to set up a Bx course and leave it as one of their runs. It takes time and effort to set up a Bx course and I am sure there is a liability issue behind the scenes too. Why do you see more park/pipe/slopestyle events in snowboarding? Because it is easier for the resorts to make these features and leave them then it is to create and maintain a proper Bx course. Until resorts are willing to do that, Bx will remain a novelty event. #5 Contributing does not mean simply agreeing to the dominate point of view of the thread. Contributing means adding to and being open to other points of view which I am, but it is clear that others here are not. If I don't think that hard boot carving is superior in every way to soft boot carving and I don't repent my ways then I am stigmatized here. Sorry, I have tried both and I prefer soft boots over hard. My opinion and others should be open to it instead of criticizing about it. I used to ski race, I tried snowboarding one weekend back in 1987 and never went back to skies after that weekend. I learned on a K2 alpine board. My first board was a Burton PJ. I have been a dedicated carver ever since. So please don't sit back and tell me that I am not 'good enough' because I choose softies over hard or that something is wrong with me. I have downhill ski raced, I have cross country ski raced, I have raced snowboards in both alpine, Bx and halfpipe. I think I have enough 'experience' to know what I like and what I don't and not to be blindly criticized for it. Thank you for your time.

Like I said, I like the concept. I really wanted a Supermodel X this year but I am not willing to throw down $600 on a board with some new gimmick technology. That's not to say its not good or won't possibly be 'the future', but I for one will wait a few years before buying a board with this technology.

Ha ha...yea, the 80's were a cruel decade. It hurts to see kids today wearing 80s fashions. That decade should have never seen the light of day again...lol

I will be the first to admit that I am not up to date on the latest in the ski industry. I sold skis and boards for about 10 years so I based that opinion on my experience during those years. If the ski industry has since switched from 'any binding can be mounted on any ski and used with any boot' then I stand corrected.

I'm curious...Have you checked out the Burton Elevators? I have them on my Bx boards and they work great. My buddy who also has size 13 feet use them and love them. Burton does not make them anymore but you can still find them on ebay and at The House (link below) http://www.the-house.com/bt1elevbk7zz-burton.html

Yes you can use non-EST bindings on the new Burton system. You don't have to buy the new bindings to go with the new boards but Burton says you won't get the full benefit of the system with out the new bindings. I have not used the new system yet but as a long time Burton customer and supporter, Burton has lost a buyer in me until they go away from this new system. I do not have a problem with the idea behind the new system. I do have a problem with making products that require specific products to make it work. The ski industry has standardized their ski/boot/binding systems and are better off because of it. Snowboarding needs to do the same and stop trying to re-invent the wheel. There is a good system in place now with 3D and 4D systems. Why fix what is not broken?

I keep my boards inside, I wipe off my boards and especially the edges after I ride, I run a diamond stone over the edges before I put my board away for the day so its ready to go the next time I need it, and I have never had a problem with rust on the edges doing it this way. The only time I have ever had rust on my edges is when I would not take a board out of its snowboard bag after a day on the hill. I may be wrong but I think your problem is in how you are treating your equipment more than anything else. Keep your boards inside, don't let them 'air dry', and get them off the ground and on to a rack system and you should be fine.

While I get the argument that about speed suits vs traditional snowboarding attire...what has made me laugh the most is that on this site a person who enjoys carving in soft boots vs hard boots is 'discredited' as being less of a carver than someone in hard boots. There is just an irony there for me. As someone who has been riding for 25 years and has fought to even get snowboarding allowed on the hills in the early days, I enjoy that snowboarding has stayed close to its roots of soft boots and baggy clothing. Ever since its early days, snowboarding has always been about style, whether its in your riding or what you are wearing. I for one support stigmatizing those that chose to look like a skier in Bx. Speed suits have their place in snowboarding and that is in alpine events. Bx is not an alpine event. To me, Bx is everything snowboarding is about. Hell, me and my friends used to Bx on the hills before Bx ever had a name. I used to have a hard boot set up and I sold it. Why? It killed me to stray so far from what snowboarding is. I am sorry if some here don't get that, but I have more fun laying carves in my softies than I ever did on a hard boot set up. So go ahead and flame on me because I have an opinion that differs from the 'norm' on here. I ride soft boots. I carve. I turn heads where ever I ride. I am damn good. I'm not changing and neither should snowboarding.

pardon my ignorance but why are metal boards such a big thing now? What does metal do for you?

Thanks Bobdea, I was thinking about the Sabre but wasn't sure if it was too race oriented. I am looking for a new board I can race Bx with and still be able to go out and have fun on. I have been looking at the Kessel and Donek but unfortunately think the Kessel is out of my price range unless I can work some mad OT this summer.

Personally I think the denim/flannel look looks awesome and very American. And I love the fact that we don't look like every other ski/snowboarder on the hill.

The US Teams 'denim' pants and flannel jackets were designed by Jake Burton. He chose something he felt was very 'American'. In a recent interview I just read with him he said that he had no plans to make the 'Team issue' clothing available for retail sale. That is not to say that the denim look won't show up in next years product line, but according to Jake himself you will not be able to buy Team USA's clothing in any retail form. And what a great final in Bx! I was on the edge of my seat that race...and the semi-finals as well. Too bad for Nate though. My heart goes out to him.

I have been riding Burton Fusions for the past 6 years and have loved them but am recently looking to upgrade to a stiffer board. I would check out the Donek Razor. At $680 it is a very affordable board and from what I have seen it can carve like a mofo! Like someone already said, if you got the cash then check out a Kessel...I mean, 80% of those riding them at the world cup level can't be wrong. 2 Bx boards I did not like was the Vokel Cross and the F2 Eliminator, but everyone's style is different and you may like them. Either way they will likely carve better than what you are riding now. The Omen was designed to be an agressive big mountian board and not a soft boot carver. That nitch was given to the Fusion.

I am considering 'stepping up' from what I am currently riding. I am riding a couple of Burton Fusions and am wondering if anyone has any experience on the Kessler, Oxess, Donek, etc... brands of Bx boards. I have never rode these boards and probably never will unless I just blindly buy them. Any opinions at all would be better than none...how do they ride? Is one better than another? how will the compare to my Fusions? Are they only good for Bx or are they fun to ride for general soft boot carving/riding? etc... Thank you for your opinions.

My message is simple...don't sell ANYTHING you LOVE until you are sure the product you bought is EXACTLY what you are looking for. Often times if the new product is not what you thought it was gonna be you will find yourself longing for your old board that you are used to. ONLY SELL when you know FOR SURE that the new board you just bought is going to be the board you want to ride everyday. I have learned this many times the hard way. On a similar note...if you find that you need to sell your old gear to buy new gear STOP NOW! Only buy new gear when you can afford to buy it outright. Why? See paragraph above.

On my Bx boards I ride a 33/24. On my park board I ride a 15/ -9.

As for wax...I mainly use FastWax. www.skifastwax.com If you are having issues with wear along the edges...wax for the conditions of the day and then put a cold wax just along the edges about 2-3cm. This harder wax will protect your base from the abrasivness of the snow and wear longer.